Beth's new piano teacher was so impressed yesterday that she suggested that Beth take the Grade 5 at Easter. I did say no to that so apparently we are going to take the slow path and she is going to take it in the summer.
Her singing teacher was looking thoughtful at how well she was doing too so as well as a Grade 6 Sax at Easter and a Grade 7 Flute in July we are facing a Grade 5 Piano and possible a singing exam, I assume Grade 3.
I have an idea to make things a little easier. The Conservatoire does exams at the beginning of July but if school does a special session it will be about 20th July. If she did the piano and singing at school it would give her 3 extra weeks thus allowing her to focus on the flute first.
She's never done 3 exams at a sitting before and I'm not sure of the wisdom of it. She'll be just 13. I feel a new rule coming on. You can't take more Grades than your age at the same sitting. A Grade 7, Grade 5 and Grade 3 add up to 15. It is starting to make sense to me.
Dora

I do agree that too many exams can give you indigestion. My daughter's violin teacher didn't mind while we were pre-grade 5, but when it came to taking a grade 6 and 4 together she put her foot down. Fortunately I was teaching the grade 4 instrument, so we simply put it off til next time.

It is really useful to know that I'm not the only one to feel uneasy about this.
I wouldn't have any problem about just skipping the exam and moving on to the next Grade. We can't hold off the Piano until Christmas at the rate she is going but we could just move on in September.
Thanks a lot.
Dora

We've been in this situation as you can imagine and I have major concerns that we will face it again before this year is out.

Avoid taking more than two exams in the same session if you can and spreading them is better. I can't clain it's really effected results in the past because they have all been progressing and mostly ready to go at the time of entry.

The knock on effect of the Flute exam result is for the Sax exam to be moved to Summer. I'm really concerned about her facing grade 8 Oboe, and Grade 6 Piano, at the same time

Yes. Emsoboe flute result does reinforce my concerns.
Plus I'm not sure how many Grades it is worthwhile taking, except for Grade 8s.
When Beth gets round to the Clarinet there is no way I'm going through all this again. I'll pay for a Grade 8 and maybe one other but no more.
There is absolutely value in preparing pieces to performance level but there are other ways of achieving that.
Interestingly Jamie's brass teacher isn't even vaguely interested in him doing any exams on the trombone having done a Grade 5 on the cornet. This is something of a relief here.
I guess she will work on the Grade 6 when he is ready.
Dora

My daughter did 2 grade 6's (flute and piano) in the same session when she was 12 and we said never again. It seemed to stretch her timewise so much and this was reflected in the results. Come to think of it she has not taken another piano exam since although she still plays. Also she didn't any exams on the bassoon until she was at grade 7 standard. Like you say Grade 8 is the important one.

I don't like my children doing 2 exams in one session- let alone more- we try to juggle them with the teachers. It is really difficult to find enough time to concentrate on one exam let alone 2 - especially for my youngest who is also a gymnast. She has 2 gym competitions this term- and probably Gr 5 violin. Next term will be key stage 2 SATs and piano gr 2 and maybe 1 competition!

I also try to juggle my pupils' exams. Last term, I had one pupil who was supposed to be doing a piano exam, so we were going to delay the clarinet. Then the piano teacher (my accompanist) said she was unsure about entering her for her exam- so we agreed (mother, pupil and both teachers) that we would go for the clarinet Gr 5 (and theory Gr4)- she had an audition for County Wind and needed scales and 1 piece to be ready by October anyway- and delay piano until this term.

I can't really comment on doing *three* music exams at the same time but I did do both of my grade 8s in the summer of 2000.... along with my 5 A levels (not including general studies!).

It might not be the best plan for everybody but if your daughter is really organised then it's definitely possible.

I think the main difficulty for us is that Grade 8 Recorder keeps moving back and back. more because of the Teacher being a perfectionist and wanting a very high standard of playing (I'm not complaining). we now don't know if she's taking it this time or not. to be honest I'd like the Grade 8's largely out of the way before year 11 kicks in.

I'm more frustrated with people not being able to decide than the actual decisions. It makes things difficult to organise properly. Particularly the one that she could take easily

My daughter's not a great fan of exams. However, some of her teachers seem a bit lost if there's not another exam on the horizon! Sometimes it's tempting to agree to the next exam just because it's what the teacher has suggested, and will give the lessons some focus, rather than because the exam, of itself, is going to take her forward musically... Also, sometimes it is easy for me to lose sight of the fact that she is still making progress and growing as a musician all the time even if she doesn't yet have a piece of paper with a number on it to wave at the world.

I, like others, prefer to avoid more than one exam per session if I can. At this time of year it always seems that the remote summer months will be an ideal time for that next exam, but from experience I know the summer term is always frenetic even if my diary is empty at the beginning of it. There are school exams that term, of course, but it always seems to be the case that the last few weeks of term fill up with all sorts of other stuff that makes practice difficult.

This term, my daughter's singing and piano teachers got together (at school) and decided she would do a piano exam this term, and would postpone her singing exam until the summer. This is fine in principle, but takes no account of her clarinet playing, where her clarinet teacher (outside school)is agitating to do grade 7 soon. In our case it is he, rather than we, that seems to feel the need to get grade exams out of the way early. Before Christmas we persuaded him that the exam should wait until the summer, but that leaves us with the prospect of grade 7 clarinet, and grade 6 singing in the same session. That would meet "Dora's Rule" perfectly! We'll see how we feel at Easter, but one or the other may have to wait. There's lots of time, and lots of clarinet and vocal repertoire to explore in the meantime. I wouldn't want daughter to feel that she hadn't given either exam her best shot because she was distracted by the other.

All of that said, my suspicion is that if a child is truly ready for an exam it doesn't really have to be all that stressful, which is why I'm ruling nothing out for now!

I did the same thing in 2006, only 4 A-Levels though!

always good to find more support for a theory

I don't think it matters so much by the time you're 18. My son did 5 A-levels, STEP Maths exams and his DipABRSM in summer 2008 and was fine - it was his choice. But taking grade 5 clarinet and grade 5 piano in the same session when he was 12 did not work out well, and I made sure after that experience that he only did one grade exam per session until he was old enough to sort out his own affairs.

If the music exams were all a child had to cope with, I'm sure three in a session would be fine. However, in practice, there is a lot of homework, often school exams, other interests, school trips and concerts, etc. I think parents need to keep an eye on it all while their children are juniors or young teenagers, as it's easy to cross the line between things being fun and interesting, and being overloaded and stressed.

I agree! Music exams have never phased Emsoboe but at the higher levels and with increasing amounts of school work it has to be watched.

I've read through this thread and I just wonder what all these exams are for?
I don't want to offend anyone and am not criticizing but they seem to cause such headaches for the children concerned. Our two children took their fair share of ABRSM exams (up to Dip ABRSM and achieved excellent results) but we really only focussed on the main instrument. If the other instruments clashed then we just asked the teacher if they felt they had reached the standard and carried on. Otherwise we felt there was a danger of creating a sort of' Jack of all trades' musician.
As they get older the auditions for ensembles get so competitive that you can run the danger of being sidelined if you spread yourself too thinly. It would be sad to work so hard at music and then realise that the one ensemble you really want to get into is beyond your reach.
I'm not one of those parents who thinks its wrong for my children to work hard, trust me they pushed themselves really hard, with the occasional shove from us and have achieved their dreams (NYO, Oxbridge, scholarships to conservatoires etc) all of this in an area not renowned for its music provision.
There just seem to be a lot of children notching up grades and I wondered what the thinking was behind it as the teachers here seem not to be too governed by them.
Mine and friends children have sat in ensembles where there are children keen to broadcast that they are better because they have a higher grade but who haven't really honed their skills and flounder, yet refuse to acknowledge that they need help and woe betide any lower grade but technically more proficient child who extends a friendly offer of help.
Finally . . at a recent Conservatoire open day a parent asked the inevitable grades question. I thought I was going to have to provide the Prof with a safe passage out of the room when he answered. 'grades are for parents we want to hear passion and look for potential'
So what I am really asking is what is it all for? I am intrigued and would be happy to be put right / enlightened

I can't really answer for anyone else only for ourselves and I expect people will have different reasons.

I guess the reason why we are in the position we are with respect to grades is because there wasn't any advice about what challenges to provide for a musical child. By the time we heard about NCO it was probably too late, age wise, as it's somehting we only learnt about recently. We weren't pointed towards festivals or things going on in the Musical wider world. It took joining this Forum and actively searching to discover what was out there.

There was never any intention of making grades the only goal or indeed to become a multi instrumentalist. It was something that happened by accident more than design.

Good teaching and support at the start on one or two instruments would have made this less likely to happen. In our case the child is so near to Grade 8 on 4 instruments it's probably not worth stopping now.

I admit if either of us had been more knowledgable about music then we wouldn't have allowed daughter to go down that path.

It may surprise you but lack of opportunities isn't a problem. There's not many on Flute but there's plenty of scope on the other 3 instruments. Having said that daughter has been invited to play a Flute solo in a concert in a couple of weeks. She has two solos in the Spring concerts on Sax and plays Oboe in two Orchestras one as Principle. She has auditioned for NYRO on Recorder and sometimes gets asked to play solos in various concerts too.

The exams themselves are not that important they do help to focus practice which rotates between instruments. What is important is progressing, this can happen on the woodwind instruments as to some degree they are inter supporting.

I don't know which Conservatoire Open Day you were at but I can tell you the local one definately works towards exams amungst other things.

We found it was usually the music teachers who suggested taking the exams. Plus they were motivating for my daughter - she's very goal orientated and it gave her something to work towards. But of course grades were balanced by playing for enjoyment in ensembles, bands and orchestras. It is only recently that she has been able to view them with any perspective and that really you only need Grade 8. But that's like academic exams. GCSEs are the most important things in the world while taking them (especially as the teachers make you feel that way); at A Level stage GCSEs are seen as quite trivial. Maybe all exams are just a gateway to the next stage; or just a way of showing how well (or otherwise) you are doing; or, as said earlier, a good motivator for practising. It is maybe only when you are performing past grade 8 that you can think 'I didn't really need to take all those exams" but by then, you have shown yourself to be a good musician.

When DS2 started his second instrument he was asked whether he wanted to play for fun or take exams and if he wanted to play Jazz (his passion) or traditional exam music. It has all been his decision - some children do enjoy working for and achieving "a piece of paper" as it is a recognised measure of their achievement. So just because he is taking traditional exams it hasn't stopped him picking up pieces and simply playing the lighter stuff.

That is something I forgot to say that it has been driven by the child. Mostly exams have come form the teacher but not always (Jazz). The good thing about allowing her to pick up and run with things is that it's created a very independent learner. She will take most pieces on, looks at wider repertoire and sorts things for herself.

Exams are something she enjoys working for. If they became a chore that would be the time to stop.

[quote name='noisyhouse' date='Jan 20 2010, 06:25 PM' post='915925']

[/quote]

I've read through this thread and I just wonder what all these exams are for?
I don't want to offend anyone and am not criticizing but they seem to cause such headaches for the children concerned. Our two children took their fair share of ABRSM exams (up to Dip ABRSM and achieved excellent results) but we really only focussed on the main instrument. If the other instruments clashed then we just asked the teacher if they felt they had reached the standard and carried on. Otherwise we felt there was a danger of creating a sort of' Jack of all trades' musician.
As they get older the auditions for ensembles get so competitive that you can run the danger of being sidelined if you spread yourself too thinly. It would be sad to work so hard at music and then realise that the one ensemble you really want to get into is beyond your reach.
I'm not one of those parents who thinks its wrong for my children to work hard, trust me they pushed themselves really hard, with the occasional shove from us and have achieved their dreams (NYO, Oxbridge, scholarships to conservatoires etc) all of this in an area not renowned for its music provision.
There just seem to be a lot of children notching up grades and I wondered what the thinking was behind it as the teachers here seem not to be too governed by them.
Mine and friends children have sat in ensembles where there are children keen to broadcast that they are better because they have a higher grade but who haven't really honed their skills and flounder, yet refuse to acknowledge that they need help and woe betide any lower grade but technically more proficient child who extends a friendly offer of help.
Finally . . at a recent Conservatoire open day a parent asked the inevitable grades question. I thought I was going to have to provide the Prof with a safe passage out of the room when he answered. 'grades are for parents we want to hear passion and look for potential'
So what I am really asking is what is it all for? I am intrigued and would be happy to be put right / enlightened
[/quote]

We started with the piano and then the children asked for a second instrument each. FWIW right now that seems to be the perfect arrangement. Then my daughter, who worked very hard and was making good progress begged for a sax. Morning, noon and night. She asked for one the way other children might ask for a kitten or a puppy, mine already had cats and dogs!!! After a year I gave in and bought one but didn't arrange lessons. I hoped it would be left alone for a while. Nope. A week later I was forced to arrange lessons before she taught herself too many bad habits.
It then became unclear which was her first instrument so I was stuck with supporting 3 instruments. Singing was added by accident. I actually wanted aural lessons!!!!!
I'm honestly not sure what I would do differently in hindsight since she is obviously benefitting from all of the lessons but the financial and time cost to our family is heavy.
Last week I tried talking to my daughter and suggested that in addition to the Conservatoire fees I would only pay for one more class, I'm currently paying for 2 extra classes each week, one an hour long, and next year it is likely that singing will not be at the Conservatoire for practical reasons but could be arranged with the same teacher.
The look of horror on her face at the idea of dropping anything was almost funny.
I'm then torn about what to do.
I personally think it would be much better to play two instruments but most of the children at our Junior Conservatoire are learning several instruments. My daughter certainly isn't unusual there.
So where do the exams fit into all of this?
I would like to see exams as a kind of "health check". You don't prepare for a blood pressure test, it is a life style thing, and I would like to see exams as a "snapshot" of achievement rather than a goal in itself.
I largely think this is true in our case. However, it is not entirely true. A serious final push for the singing exam last term made a significant difference. It was true for the piano exam.
So my guess is that a piano exam in the summer with be a "take it in her stride" no problem exam. I don't know if the singing exam will be the same. It might be. She has obviously learnt a great deal about how to learn to sing in the last couple of months.
I suspect a Grade 7 exam is not intended to be a "snapshot". I think it is a goal in itself.
I would real like to drop a few Grades on the way but it is a joint decision with my daugher and her teachers.
My daughter does play in a number of ensembles each week, currently 10 a week, well one of them is once a fortnight so, say 9 1/2. 3 flute, 4 1/2 sax and 2 singing. None of them are very high powered but they all put on public performances. I assume that more prestigious opportunities will arise as she gets older.

Yesterday I was asked if I would agree to her taking on a paper round when she is 13 so that she can save up for a harp. The answer to the paper round was easy, she's too young and too much on her plate anyway. But what am I suppose to say about a harp? Suggestions welcomed.
Dora

Same as what I said about a Double Bass Didn't stop her finding one and swapping two student instruments for it. I don't think you will be quite so lucky? with harp.

Its so difficult. My daughter wanted to take up a third instrument for a long time but finances did preclude it. She did then take a Sunday paper round to pay for half of the lesson costs. So we let her on grounds she could use the school instrument and that she played for fun - no pressure on practice and grades exams. It didn't of course work out like that. The teacher felt she was a good musician, we applied to a charity to buy an instrument and slowly it became her first instrument. She now plays it virtually exclusively. She realised that if she wanted to achieve performance wise she was going to have to focus on one instrument and drop others which she did.

Personally I feel 3 instruments are too many if you want to achieve highly (my daughter is so driven that she always strives to achieve highly in whatever she does) - because there are academic exams, ensembles / orchestras, plus any other hobbies. Also there is work / life balance - having fun with friends.

Dora - I suppose if your daughter can fit it all in, you are not restricted by the cost and you feel that she would enjoy it and not feel pressured, then it would be fun to take up the harp. We have found though that once the teachers see a talented pupil they are very keen for them to progress well, which to be fair is an element of what makes a good teacher, but then there can become a pressure on time to fit in more practice, performance and exams. Pragmatically, if she does want to go further in music she is likely to have more opportunities on the harp than the flute as the flute is so competitive. It is also a beautiful instrument.

Overall taking up the bassoon as a third instrument was actually the best thing my daughter did musically but the pressure whilst playing 3 instruments was too much for her at times.

While we earn good money our mortgage is pretty well equal to one of our salaries so we don't have unlimited financial resources. We also were older parents, IVF worked but we had been married for 15 years before we had children so we will retire in less than 7 years time. We will not have high pensions because my husband has not been in pensionable employment. We will have enough but not a surplus.
I think I might get her a harp lesson for her birthday. But you are right. At her level she is likely to find herself being pushed to achieve.
It is so hard to know what to do for the best.
Thanks
Dora

My friend teaches at Chets and non of her pupils do external exams. They get assessed regulary at school anyway. She found that preparing for exams often got in the way. What they needed to learn for an exam wasn't necessarily what the pupil needed to learn for their development as an instrumentalist and musician.So while exams can be useful they're not necessary.
Parents you can say no if you feel teacher's are putting pressure on regarding exams. We have friends who, because they have a large family, are very selective which exams are done. They just couldn't afford for every child to do every exam.
As for learning multiple instruments I think it depends on how efficient your child is with their time what they can manage. Our two find learning two more than enough. No1 because he is pretty set on becoming a cellist has even let his piano slip a bit but as he generally does 4 hours cello practise a day it's maybe not surprising.
Fellow parents don't feel guilty if you just can't afford for you child to play one more instrument. By providing what you already do you are giving your children much more than many get. It also doesn't do them any harm to learn that families have budgets to stick to. My two put up with a slightly shabby house, old car and a lack of playstations, Wii's, designer clothes, eating out etc because they know they can't have everything but have got decent instruments to play and new strings when they need them

It sounds as though Beth is already very busy, and would be hard pressed to find time for a harp.

Speaking from our own experience - very sociable daughter in Year 9, so a year ahead of Beth, and trying to juggle clarinet, cello, recorder, sax, piano and singing along with homework, non-musical school activities and social life. For years we have been saying we/she must cut back, but have only succeeded in adding instruments. Unfortunately, the truth is (as I'm sure you know!) that once you have begun an instrument it is possible to formulate all sorts of reasons (musical and otherwise) why that one would be the wrong one to give up.

But it really isn't possible to do justice to all these instruments. Of course my daughter is quite brilliant ( ), but I only have to hear her cello teacher talk of how she practised 5 hours a day at my daughter's age to know that the half hour or so she manages 4 or maybe 5 times a week is not going to get her into the Berlin Phil!! Fortunately, my daughter has other ambitions, but in my heart I know she is not going to achieve her full potential on any of these instruments without some very severe pruning.

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't go anywhere near a harp, not even a birthday lesson, without some sort of agreement with my daughter as to what would give to accommodate it. Otherwise, brilliant as my daughter is ( again), it would be just another thing that she would never do quite as well as she might otherwise.

Most of us don't have children learning at Chets or similar institutions. We may have some say in when exams happen but most of daughter's teachers until September automatically worked for the next grade. This is what they are used to doing. We found early on that asking to skip grades only caused problems.

I agree with technique coming first and in an ideal world everything would be in place before someone took an exam. One of the reasons we changed teachers recently was due to lack of technical teaching.

Sadly in our situation exams are important as we need them for funding, joining various ensembles and participating in other things. I am sure that pupils of Chets don't need them in the same way.

I have to say that whilst our system is far from ideal I'm not sure I'd want the one adopted by your friend. I'd rather my daughter selectively took external exams (ideal) learning technique and developing musicality along the way. I don't think I'd want my daughter facing grade 8 when it was needed for University entry (something I heard recently) after being there years. Even if she had been playing at the standard for a long time it's unneccesary pressure.

"Do one thing, but do it well"

Isn't this (in its various guises) standard advice for success?

I don't know how anyone can manage four instruments and I have great admiration for them. But on the question of spreading yourself too thinly I think there's another side. My youngest plays two instruments and if he were only playing one he wouldn't do double the amount of practice on it that he does now. He's the sort of child who'll do a little on everything, so he's also much better having a lot of different music as he'll practise it all but wouldn't practise any of it more intensively if he had fewer things to cover. So for someone like him he will achieve more by playing two instruments than he would if he just played one because I don't think he would progress any more quickly on just one, he just wouldn't have the other as well. Am I making any sense at all?! I can see that for another child two instruments would mean less time available to get really good on one of them but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be my child!

It takes trial and error and time to find the instrument that is correct for yourself. Children particulalry need to have opportunity to explore a variety of things and that may include instruments. I've come across professionals who had played different instruments before the one they settled on and there are those who've settled on the instrument they started on when they were pre-school. It would have been a shame if my daughter had only played the flute because she picked it up when she was 9 years old. But sure, if you want success then you are going to have to select one instrument.

Mine are the same. (Although I wonder if it's related to age and concentration span). Also for children who enjoy the social side of music-making and are not interested in becoming a professional, more instruments means more orchestras/ensembles to join.


I have too. In fact I think because of the nature of the instrument, an awful lot of professional oboists and bassonists played something else first.

Yep, it makes perfect sense and my daughter's a lot like that too. However, from time to time she will say, "I wish I was really good at X", and I know for certain this just can't happen while she's trying to keep up 5 instruments and singing!

Sadly in our situation exams are important as we need them for funding, joining various ensembles and participating in other things. I am sure that pupils of Chets don't need them in the same way.

I have to say that whilst our system is far from ideal I'm not sure I'd want the one adopted by your friend. I'd rather my daughter selectively took external exams (ideal) learning technique and developing musicality along the way. I don't think I'd want my daughter facing grade 8 when it was needed for University entry (something I heard recently) after being there years. Even if she had been playing at the standard for a long time it's unneccesary pressure.
[/quote]

Some pupils at Chets do apply to Charities for funds and to external ensembles or go on external courses. Their teacher writes confirming they are at the level required or writes recommending they recieve funding towards instruments etc. Some of my friends pupils have recieved help this way over the last few years. I imagine teachers at junior conservatoires will also help their pupils this way as well.

I'm not saying don't take exams: It's just that some parents can feel under pressure to put their children through each exam. The last cello exam my elder son took was grade 3. We've been assured that when he applies to conservatoires in a 18 months time it really won't matter if he has grade 8 or not. Although he's well past grade 8 standard wise he may decide to take it at some point "just for the fun of it" as he put it.

I'm not honestly sure that this would be such a good idea. It might be a bit like someone cooking your favourite meal when you're really hungry and then wisking it away again just as you get the fork in - except on a much bigger scale. Obviously people are different, but I think I'd have found it worse at Beth's age to have one/a few lessons as a present, and then be made stop, than it would be to not get to try it at all.

I know.
But what if she was really meant to play the harp and I've stopped her?
I really wish there were music libraries where you could borrow instruments and find out which you really wanted to learn. I really hoped that would happen at the Junior Conservatoire but the pressure is to specialise. Beth is currently saying that she wants to make a career as a musician so I feel really responsible to ensure she gets the opportunity to do that. If she didn't want to be a musician I'd just get her a harp and hang it. But then if she didn't want to be a musician I can't believe I'd be willing to spend as much on her music as I currently am.

Why is being a parent so complicated?
Dora

More practically the harp is such a complex instrument that one lesson is not going to achieve very much. So far as I can tell, harpists first hear the instrument, fall in love with it, obsess about it, listen to it at every opportunity ... then they learn to p[lay it

Have you looked into hiring a harp - I know woodwind instruments are regulalry available to hire. We originally hired a flute to see if my daughter was interested enough to practise. Or charitable trusts like Benslow that loan instruments. Am I right in thinking that your daughter plays piano and flute? Because if she does and she wants to become a musician then opportunities are few. A third instrument which then possibly becomes her first instrument would therefore be good. Or, if you bought her one, you could always resell it.

Having a watched a harpist's dad come out of orchestra quarter of an hour before the end, spend that quarter of an hour getting the harp into their quite large car and then watching the daughter squeeze in the only available remaining seat, and all with the aid of a special trolley and set of steps, I would NEVER encourage any of mine to play the harp!

I also wanted to play the harp as a teenager and asked my school music teacher about it. He said, 'Yes, fine. You get a harp and I'll find you a teacher.' Great, I thought, until my mum bluntly pointed out what a harp would cost and that we couldn't afford one, and that was the end of that.

She also plays the sax.
I think she may be happy to teach in which case I would think there would be plenty of people wanting to learn the instruments she is playing.
But I do hear you. Periodically I suggest that she tries the oboe or basson for exactly the reasons you give but she says no to them.
I'm still hoping she opts for mathematics which has given me a good living.
I have looked at hiring a harp and, don't tell my engineering husband who would have to do it, I have even found plans for building a harp for sale on the internet.
I'm wondering if it might be a good thing to do after she gets Grade 8 on the sax and presumably stops lessons. I don't know.
I must have missed this bit in the baby manual.
Dora



And you are still on good terms with your mother and don't feel your life was blighted. There is hope.
Thanks
Dora

Will she quit the sax after grade 8?

[quote name='Mad Tom' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:23 PM' post='916304']

[/quote]
More practically the harp is such a complex instrument that one lesson is not going to achieve very much. So far as I can tell, harpists first hear the instrument, fall in love with it, obsess about it, listen to it at every opportunity ... then they learn to p[lay it
[/quote]

We are currently at stage 3 of your list.
I'll wait until she is really chewing my ears off about it.
You are absolutely right that it is better to be excellent at one instrument than a jack of all trades but it I also think that a child should be given as many opportunities and as much encouragement as possible.
I'm not managing to find the balance here.
Dora

Not all of the children of the parents on this thread are at JD's either. I know that pupils from Chets take external exams I met one of the staff in the waiting room once when I went with my daughter. The teacher in question was there with a pupil

You have to take into consideration the fact that pupils form Chets will have letters from their teacher written on the schools headed paper. I guess that will say plenty to funders even if it only contained a signiture. It's not quite the same as being suported by your school teacher or someone from the music service. In the last year I've discovered what a small world the music one is.

I think you would! BerkshireSon always said he wouldn't do music as a career, but it was his passion as a hobby. When a teenager gets up half an hour before his parents in order to practise for as long as possible before school, and obviously gets so much pleasure from music, somehow spending the money to enable him to do that seems well worth it. Anyway, Beth may change her mind about that in a year or two and opt for Maths after all - surely that wouldn't make you feel your money had been wasted?

I feel you have reached saturation point for Beth with instruments at the moment and should say that if she wants to take up harp she needs to drop something else. She will have so much coursework for GCSEs that it's not kind to let her get too overloaded at this stage. If you really can't afford a harp, that simplifies things, as you can just tell her so. If it really is something she desperately wants, she'll find a way to change your mind!!

I'm a great believer in things working out for the best. If you say no to your child, but it's something they are driven to do, they'll find a way. If they aren't truly driven, they'll accept your decision. In the end, they have to supply their own drive to be really good at anything; providing the means is useful, but not enough on its own. So don't worry - I'm sure if she's "meant" to play the harp, she'll make it happen.

[/quote]

And you are still on good terms with your mother and don't feel your life was blighted. There is hope.
Thanks
Dora
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Still on very good terms! My life certainly wasn't blighted and I realise that I have a bit of a tendency to buy instruments thinking they will be the 'one' and then I never learn to play them properly. I have a banjo, piano accordian and harmonium which all fit into this category. Beth doesn't seem to be like this, given her achievements on several instruments, but it can be easy to think you really, really want something and when you've got it it doesn't seem quite so exciting.

What I am grateful for is that my parents made me learn the piano and encouraged me for all those years. And I was really pleased when one of my boys said he wouldn't have got nearly as far on his viola if I hadn't encouraged/coerced him to practice.

Do you really think Beth will stop lessons after Grade 8? Emspboe is staring Grade 8 Recorder in the face and has no intentions of stopping. For her Grade 8 Sax is likely to be summer, the teacher wants to increase her lesson time next year rather than decrease.

I don't know about your area Dora but there seems to be a shortage of Sax players here. There are fewer at the Music Service and not as many as they would like at RNCM. Maybe keeping Sax might be a better option that Flute long term.

When I first joined the Forum way back when Emsoboe was only Grade 2 or 3 it seemed a long way to 8. I think I have learnt along the way that what many people say, that it's only the beginning, really is true.

You are right. She is showing no sign of wanting to stop anything. I did suggest mildly that she stopped singing lessons next year and she looking shocked. And even to my not very musical ear she is starting to sing rather nicely, she is becoming very easy to listen too.
At our school if you do GCSE music you get free lesson in an instrument. She is hoping for harp lessons. I'm pretty sure harp lessons are not on offer. Once she has got over the shock of that I do wonder what she will chose. I expect clarinet but I can't say for sure. She doesn't seem interested in the guitar. The double bass is well worth considering.
I did ask her last night if she thought she might switch instruments if she could to the harp and she said no so I'm not worrying about blighting her life any more. And BerkshireMum is absolutely right that she will find a way if it is really meant for her.
Dora

You are lucky to get free lessons we didn't even get a reduction. I don't think I would have wanted anything more even if we had.

Emsoboe can get a reasonable sound out of a Clarinet but finds the scales horrendous after playing other instruments. Double Bass might be a better way to go. I do think at somepoint you have to ask why though. If teaching is the drive then it might be better specialise in one family.

I don't think clarinet scales are so bad really.. Musical Maniac seems to be on top of the grade 7/8 scales (so long as she doesn't have to play them staccato!!). I think, however, to get that really lovely creamy clarinet sound takes years of dedicated practice. MM is not there yet. She sounds very good to me - until I hear her teacher play.

I think notmusimum's point about specialising in one family is a good one. I often feel that MM's cello playing is a distraction from her woodwind endeavours rather than complementary to them; it is easier to justify keeping going with singing and piano. On the other hand, her clarinet teacher (himself once a cellist) encourages her to keep it up, and I am aware it is a much better bet than any of her other instruments for playing in chamber groups and baroque music, and MM generally prefers to make music in small groups. That is, perhaps, less of an issue for Beth as she plays the flute.

If I had my time again, I'd opt for French horn. So would MM if she had my time as well as her own! Yes, I know it's not a woodwind instrument..

Emsoboe finds them confusing after playing three C instruments. I don't think they are a problem on their own or if you learn them first;

I know exactly what you mean about sound as I feel the same on Oboe. Whilst there are always lots of favourable comments and I have started to hear improvement it's not quite "there"