Hello teachers out there

I am not a teacher, I am posting here to see if you experienced teachers have any thoughts/suggestions...

I have been entered for my grade 5 violin exam by my teacher.
I was not sure I was ready, but my teacher does not enter people if he's not sure, so I trust him that he is right, after all his students get distinctions.....

Now, I was not set on what pieces to prepare, but over the past year have been trying to learn 2 pieces from A list, both of which I felt I was not progressing well enough with, first one 'Tambourine' we abandoned, then we stuck to A5 'Giga', thought maybe this could be achievable, but the more I play it the more I think I will never get it as good as I'd like to get it....so 3 lessons ago when my teacher entered me for the exam I said to him that during the Christmas break I have started learning a new A piece, A3 Bagatelle and that I think I am doing much better at this after 2 weeks of learning it than on the Giga after one year of 'trying to get it there'.

He did not like the fact I switch and jump from one piece to another and said I should stick with the Giga, I told him I lack confidence with the Giga, that I really think I will not be able to get it up to a good standard. He thinks I should do this one....

I thought as I've told him I lack confidence in it and I think I will not be able to polish it, that if he makes me stick to it is because he thinks I can, and he probably thinks that even if I don't get it to the standard 'I' would like, it will still be good enough....

I trust him so I am sticking with it, but deep down in myself I feel really depressed about this piece, I keep practicing it every day but I REALLY feel it is not any better than 5 months ago!

I had a break from it to see if this would help and did not look at it for 3 weeks over Christmas break, that did no good.
It is a baroque piece, essentially looks 'easy' but to be played at speed and make it sound nice it's actually hard work!
I don't like it anymore, I DREAD it, I never look forward to play it and I have brought myself to believe I will never (not until I am much more experienced anyway) play it well!

But I keep thinking 'it's all in my head', that I have 'beaten myself' so much over this that I have learnt to believe I will not get it polished, convinced myself so much that I am actually stopping myself from improving unconsciounsly, almost to prove myself 'I was right'

Yet I seem NOT to be able to stop this negative mental status I have put myself in!

Have you had any experiences like this yourselves or with students? Have you found anything which helped quickly and effectively? (the exam is in 2 months, maybe even less, don't have a date yet!)

I have even thought of going to a couple of hypnosis sessions over this, no jokes!

thank you in advance for your thoughts

Jo

I've recently read a great book about the psychology of music; 'the inner game of music' it's FAB! and has LOOOOOOOADS of great advice and tips for those of us who have this inner battle going on!

I sometimes ask my pupils to play it really badly on purpose! If you ALLOW yourself to make mistakes, you will usually start to relax and ease the pressure off, and remarkably play better!

Well worth a look (the book I mentioned)


I'm still working on confidence issues and I regularly perform solo and with an ensemble who do regular paid concerts, so don't beat yourself up too much

It's your shout. Your teacher can advise but ought to be sympathetic to your opinion and in my view it's up to you to say what you feel happy playing. It's pointless preparing something that you don't enjoy playing.

I've previously kicked pieces into touch because I didn't think I would get them up to a good enough standard, or even because I didn't like them and my teacher has been quite happy to go along with me.

Thank you,
although being honest overall my confidence on the violin is not very good, I do feel very confident about my B list piece and maybe not very confident, but confident enough with my C list piece.
It's this A list piece the 'bugbear'!
If that book is not too expensive I'll buy it, I dont usually like reading much but I do need a kick in the right direction with my confidence on the violin, I don't have this problem in other areas I think, I am very confident in my job and when dealing with people/public...I think it's just on the violin my problem, and especially with this piece



I know where 'you are coming from' pushpull, I know you are right, and I never 'really' understood before people who did what their teacher told them to do just because 'teacher is teacher' but I think I am beginning to understand now....as I feel I want to do what he thinks it's best. I know he would choose the best for me and I trust his judgement, so I want to believe he wants me to do this particular piece because he believes that's the best one I could do...do I make any sense?
I don't really dislike the piece, originally it was the A piece I liked the most when I listened to the CD to choose what to learn, but I have grown to be scared of it and dread it due to my lack of progress on it!!! I know I could play A3 Bagatelle for my exam, I can play that with hardly any problems, but I would like to give this a good fight as surely my teacher must believe I can do it and he does know a thing or two more than I do....

Have you asked your teacher why he really wants you to play this particular piece? And if so, are you convinced by his reasons? Also can you explain exactly what you find so hard about the piece?

My teacher is usually quite flexible about what pieces I play (and I'm not working towards an exam or anything else so there is no fixed syllabus to follow) but occasionally he has insisted on a piece that I have felt is way too difficult for me. The first few years I just struggled with the piece without saying anything but more recently, when I feel I am completely out of my depth, I have asked him why he thinks I should persist and he has always come up with a convincing reason. I have also found that clarifying verbally what I think is hard can be helpful, I think for two reasons. 1) It makes me think very precisely about what/where the difficulty is. 2) It then often becomes apparent that I am focalising on something my teacher doesn't think is essential (at least to start with) and it enables him to offer me a different way of approaching the piece. (What I mean is I will say I can't do "A" and his reply will be, you should be working on "B" first because when you can do "B", "A" will just fall into place).

Has your teacher explained WHY he is so keen for you to do this A list piece?

When I begin to prepare a student for an exam, I usually make suggestions as to what might be good choices for pieces, but if a student is set on doing a different piece, I am happy for them to try it. Often, if a student really gels with a piece, it will be played with more musicality. What I NEVER do is to force a particular choice of piece on anyone - not only is it counter-productive, but impairs the enjoyment a student has in their instrument. I think if he really wants you to play the Giga, perhaps it could be put on the back-burner for work after the exam? I also do not have a problem with students switching pieces - up to a point. On occasion, this has even been done just weeks before the exam, and usually to good effect because the student has been happier with the new choice.

My own thoughts are that he should be prepared to go with your choice, unless he genuinely thinks that you play the Giga better than the others. But your opinion should count too, and in view of the negative mindset that you describe, I would be tempted to put it aside for now. Good luck with whatever you decide to play.

Thank you for all the replies so far.

Sorry if I didn't explain myself properly, where I was trying to get was not to say it is not right for my teacher to tell me to play this piece, but rather what can I do to clear all the negative stuff out of my head.....I really believe I should be able to play this piece, and I have this feeling I am the only one stopping myself from playing it well due to my negative thoughts, but I really can't find a way (yet) to dispel them. Also does it sound like an excuse I am making (the negative thoughts stopping me from progressing?) or does it sound this could really be the reason? is it possible to create a 'mental block' about a piece so much that it stops you progressing? if so how do I remove it?
Maybe I was hoping someone was going to suggest a special chant/mantra I can sing before I fall asleep

I don't know really....sorry

the notes in themselves in the piece are easy, it's just that its supposed to be played relatively 'speedy' (its at 'presto' tempo) and when I gain the speed the notes don't sound clear enough, intonation at times suffers and bow does not create the good tone all the time, the quick string crossing found 3 times in the piece (over a few bars) also does not sound as clean as I would like it to be, I keep hitting the neighbouring string every slightly now and again and it's really off putting to me, maybe someone at a distance cannot hear it much.
I know what I am 'supposed' to be doing in my practice to correct these things, I have been told many times and do practice, it just does not get better! and I really think it is my 'brains' stopping me as like I said I know very well where I go wrong and how to put it right, it just does NOT go right!

Jojo, if the exam was not pending, you would no doubt have put the piece away, perhaps until some later stage. I am convinced one should not be working on a piece continually for a year.
Learn a piece, work on it for say 6-8 weeks, lay it aside for 3-5 months, pick it up again, and so on. In each interval you have worked on other pieces and your technique is growing. The essential point is that in these interval periods, the piece is sufficiently 'forgotten' so that you can approach the piece in a fresh way (technically and musically) each time. Each time you re-learn it, it will come back sooner, and better.
That way you will prevent a negative feeling of a piece, even if you work on it for several years.

If I were in your situation, I would do what I would do if I did not have an exam, quit the piece, put it aside for at least 6 months, probably longer, not before you are happy again .... , and get on with something fresh. And never try to speed up a piece / section if you are not in complete control. Speed will come on its own when the control is there (and least with piano). I get the feeling that after all this work, and you know what you are supposed to do, and you do it, and still you hit a plateau, than there is something in the piece you are simply not ready for yet, and laying it aside until later is the only way to get it done. But if your teacher really believes you will pass this piece as it is, you could just try. Follow your own instincts, you are the one who will be standing there taking the exam.

I'm not a teacher, but here are some thoughts that might help from my experiences of learning violin...

I found this piece in a collection I have (incidentally, there are loads of other great pieces in it you must try! ) and had a go this afternoon. I really like it! Completely out of any exam context, it seems like it will give you a good grounding in the technique you'll need for things like Handel sonatas and Baroque concertos you'll be learning in the not-too-distant future, so that may well be why your teacher's keen for you to learn it.



An anecdote that might help you see a positive side to the Giga: in December I did grade 8 violin. The first list piece I learnt was the B piece, which I first tried in August 08. Overall I'd say I 'learnt' this piece and then to some extent unlearnt it by dropping it, three times before the exam. The C piece I started a few months later, and the A piece was the last, I started work on in just after Easter. Technically it seemed the easiest, a bit of a gift for grade 8 and I was just as confident with it as with the other two and indeed 7-ish months is a perfectly decent amount of time to prepare a grade 8 piece. But in the exam my marks were in direct proportion to the amount of time I'd been learning the pieces. I think the B piece was technically the hardest, and until at least October I was expecting it to be disastrous in the exam, but I really think working on a piece over a long period of time gives you an edge when nerves could otherwise get the better of you in an exam situation. For what it's worth, at the point in time before the exam equivalent to where you are now, I thought the whole thing was going to be a disaster, but I more or less just kept doing what I was doing and in the end came out with a distinction.

As others have said, dropping the piece and coming back to it will help. For two days, a week, even 2 weeks, it won't do you any harm to just concentrate on the other things you have to learn and this piece will be the better for it.



This blog by Clayton Haslop on violinist.com might give you some ideas about your string-crossing troubles. Other than that, has your teacher ever talked to you about a practice technique involving singing the tune out loud while fingering the left hand only? among other things, it can work wonders on the clarity problems you describe. If not, I'll explain it in more detail - it's just a bit complicated to get down in writing!


Best of luck anyway.
Rosie.

Thank you Prins, yes I see what you mean and I think this approach can help, mind you, I have not practiced this piece constantly for a year, I picked it up, did it for a month, left it, then picked it up again a couple of months later, left it after another couple of months, something like that, it's only the last month I practice it daily, before was not daily either, maybe 3 times a week?

I will do this piece in the exam, I trust my teacher when he says to me I can do it, yesterday at lesson he said he would not force me to do it, but he also said he thinks 'it's coming along really well' (really well he said...), as I confessed to him honestly how badly I feel about it. I feel I have to 'face the problem' and if I end up getting a decent mark for it at the exam I think it will boost my confidence a lot for the future. If I do 'muck it up' at the exam then never mind, I am not sitting this exam to get into college/music school, it's just for my 'pleasure' kind of thing......

so yes, my instinct tells me to do it, despite the negative side of my brain giving me a hard time!

Rosie, **thank you SO much** sharing your experience with me has made me feel MUCH better, knowing that you felt as horrible as I did about your B piece a month or so before the exam and then it all 'fell into place' is a BIG relief! I was hoping maybe this can happen, that's why I keep persevering despite my negative thoughts
(and because I keep thinking my teacher must be right if he says I can do it, he would not push me like this if he had any hesitations, he's an Heifetz admirer and he often mentions him as his teacher was a pupil of Leopold Auer, Heifetz's teacher, he says Heifetz believed you had to be 180% good so that if on a performance day you were not feeling/doing too well you'd still perform 100% he told me that to explain why he is SO strict with me! so if he is so strict I think surely he would not want me to perform like a 'clown' at my exam?? )

ps I think sharing my problem publicy on here has definitely helped, I felt like I needed to 'get it off my chest', I have to admit I feel better now, thank you to EVERYONE who has been so patient with my 'little tantrum'