I've decided I can't do without an acoustic piano any longer. If there are any pianists in Leeds either tomorrow or early next week who would be willing to come to a piano shop with me to give me some initial advice, I'd very much appreciate it

Brilliant! Enjoy yourself. I wish I was closer to Leeds than the soft south of London.... Do you know roughly what you want and what your budget is?

It will be a secondhand piano so it will largely depend on what they have in stock. I saw a Rogers last autumn which I really liked. Other than that, I suppose I'll just go by the sound and/or the touch, but my problem is that although the sound/touch might be fine, because I'm so inexperienced, it might be about to fall to bits and I wouldn't realise it

Hi . Have you been to see the PianoMan in leeds? he is very nice and usually has second hand pianos for sale i think. i think he would advise you very wisely.

You can't go far wrong if you choose a piano you like and you enjoy playing.

There will be a tuner/technician in your area who will be happy to review a piano (for a small fee). My tuner does this for £25 -£50 depending on where the piano is. When you're talking about a sizeable investment, it is well worth it.

If you were near Manchester, I would suggest Mark Goodwin Pianos. He's on the web and does a lot of 2ndhand stuff that he is very (sometimes brutally) honest about. I would trust him if I were in the market.

Sheridan

That sounds exciting.
I can't offer any useful help, but I hope you enjoy choosing

As an after thought, when I bought my piano I decided I didn't have enough money for a new piano but I ended up buying a new one which had been on display for some time in the shop and had a few scrapes in the varnish. The shop knocked almost a third off the price and as they weren't very noticeable and it was on the side that was going to go against the wall anyway, I decided it was a bargain worth having.

How exciting! Do take along a tuner (or at least your piano teacher). Good luck in finding one you like

I'm based in London, so can't come along to help. But I can offer the following: enquire about the piano's soundboard. Most things on a piano can be fixed (keys / dampers not working etc), but if there's something wrong with the soundboard, it can become a nightmare. This applies particularly to reconditioned pianos.

Not so. By all means pick one you like the sound and feel of, but do get a professional opinion on any secondhand piano you are thinking of buying. You do not want to be stuck with a dud. A decent piano shop will usually give you an honest appraisal of any secondhand piano they are selling (after all, word would swiftly get round if they regularly off-loaded firewood) but as you correctly suspect, there are plenty of 'hidden' problems that can crop up. Sorry I am too far away to help. I love poking around inside pianos!!

skylark,

Just remember that you don't have to make an immediate decision - take your time over finding a piano you really like. Also there is much to be said for going back again to try out the pianos a day or so later. If you are looking at a few pianos it would be worth taking a notepad and making notes about each one after you have played it so you don't totally rely on memory. This is especially so if you are visiting more than one dealer. (These recommendations aren't mine, but wise words I have read on the pianoworld forum!)

Do make sure that you get a tuner/piano technician to check over the piano you decide on before you buy it or place a deposit.

Good luck!

Headingley pianos, who are no longer in Headingley but on Scott Hall Road, have a good selection. I had a good look round when I came to the College for a lesson with Helen in Autumn 2008. By coincidence, Helen visited them the same day to buy a keyboard - might be worth having a word with her.

In York, there is of course Stephen Brandon pianos in Whitby Avenue, off Stockton Lane. They have been in business for many years and, I believe, have a good reputation. I could meet you there if you want for another opinion. If you care to email me with your ideas, style of piano, budget, etc., I might be able to suggest something.

Many thanks for all the very good advice, and for the emails too, and oldnotes... thanks for offering to meet up. I've arranged to go to a place in Leeds this morning so I'll see how I get on. I'm very excited!

Have fun ! and do report back
(as if you wouldn't!).

OK, my report then!


I've got a better idea now what I want. Ideally I'd like a tallish upright, older rather than modern, and nice wood - it will be in my lounge and I'll be looking at it all the time so it's got to be a nice piece of furniture that will give me pleasure to look at, as well as being an instrument. There was only one piano in the shop I went to which fitted this category - a Broadwood, which the serial number identified as being "up to 1909".

I liked the sound, but I have to say that the touch left something to be desired. What I don't know is the extent to which that can be rectified. It wasn't responsive - some of the keys took too long to come back up when played, others were OK when tested, but when used in natural playing using normal pressure, didn't always strike the strings. I tried repeating all the keys in turn and some stopped repeating after two or three times.

Other than the keys, I thought the hammers looked OK, although some of the grooves were a little close to the edge. The keys were level, with some very slightly uneven spacing. The pedals seemed clunky, but then so did the pedals on several other pianos so maybe that's normal, although I've never noticed it on the piano I use for my lessons.

Any thoughts on whether the touch problems are correctable, or is it too old to restore? It was priced at £1500 - does it sound as if I'd be paying for the cabinet rather than the instrument - it was a beautiful cabinet, possibly Rosewood, with inlaid marquetry panels. There was a Bechstein at £2000 which I admit sounded better, but it looked awful (badly stained etc). I didn't really want to spend more than £1500 though - does that seem a reasonable figure for an older upright or should I be budgetting to spend more?

When we bought ours, my friend who plays like a dream told us that pianos do not get better with age, and buy as new as possible.
Good luck with your buying, and don't spill any crumbs from your research project on the new piano.
Bev

Let me know if I can help . At the moment I am working in Horsforth Tue Wed and Thur every week

Thanks fsm - I might take you up on that, but maybe not on this particular piano - as someone's just advised in a PM, "if in doubt, don't". I'll spend some more time shopping around

skylark,

It sounds as though you have had an exciting day!

I can quite understand you wanting a piano that looks beautiful, especially if it is going into your living room. A hundred years is pretty old (!) and I fear though that, if it has never been rebuilt, it might have problems which you only become aware of once you have bought it and got used to it. A fairly modern piano would 'probably' have fewer problems, even though modern pianos are pretty nondescript to look at (though some Kemble pianos are nicer looking than most).

It is vital that you get a tuner to check the pianos over before you buy.

On a different tack - it it would be ideal if you got some help. What about talking to your piano teacher and asking whether he/she can put you in touch with their tuner - perhaps even for them to phone the tuner in preparation. Someone like that would probably be able to give a good indication of what age/condition/brands would be best to look out for to fit your budget and your needs. The tuner might also be aware of people wanting to sell a good piano that falls within your budget.

Oh - and don't get down hearted. Treat it as an exciting quest and take your time.

One thought - some older pianos tend to stand up less well than more modern ones to a centrally heated environment.

Hi Skylark, just come on line and caught up with the thread.

I agree with the others. The newer the better, the one you have tried certainly sounds like one to leave alone. I seem to remember a handful in the style you mention at Headingley pianos last time I was there. There are many, many pianos around - it's a buyers market. So don't rush to buy one. The more you try, the easier you will recognise the right one when you find it. As the others have said, get a tuner to check it if you can before buying, after all, he/she will be tuning it for you say four times a year at around £40/time. Certainly don't buy a piano with any faulty/sticking/etc. keys, because you will notice it every time you play it.

Good decision to buy a piano, good luck with your search.

Hi Skylark

Don't touch the Broadwood. It sounds, from what you say, as if it needs a complete overhaul.

The advice others are giving is spot on. Newer really is better (although I do have a 1927 piano myself ). There are loads out there that are comfortable and enjoyable to play, good to listen to and also look good.

Good test for a quality soundboard is to play a note without sustain and hold the key down. The more slowly the note dies, the better the board. When soundboards split or lift from their stays, the tone of the piano is often impaired and the natural sustain diminishes.

Hi Skylark

Really exciting that you have decided to buy a piano. I think that what you have to remember is that every piano feels different. When I went to purchase mine, I bought new but had the one out of the shop as out of every piano I tried it was the one that I fell in love with. The man in the shop said that I could order the model if I wanted, but it may not feel the same.

I haven't looked back, and everyone that has come to my house and played it says that it has an amzaing touch and tone. So I did pretty well as I didn't have any one that knew about pianos with me.

Hope that you get one soon, remember don't rush, just make sure that you get what you want as it isn't something that is easy to change if you find that you don't like it.

ET

didn't know you were buying a piano Exciting!!

I didn't know that, thanks, and to everyone else for your advice and comments. It's particularly useful to know how to test the soundboard because if the piano is backed against the wall or another piano in the showroom, you can't actually see the soundboard.

I've spent some time looking at pianos on various web sites and I think I might have to revise both my idea of what I want need and also my budget. Never having bought a piano before, I think I've been a bit naive on both counts I'm gradually getting better informed though and at least the inside of a piano isn't as much of a mystery to me now.

I found this site very interesting - it gives a summary of the different styles of piano over the last 100 years or so. I know the piano I saw the other day was straight strung, but I'm not sure how to identify over/under-dampening. I'll have to have a look at the piano I used in my lessons.

Hi Skylark

I bought a reconditioned Bechstein Grand piano from Besbrodes in Leeds a few years ago.

http://www.besbrodepianos.com/

Daughter's piano teacher came with us and tried a number out. We have been really happy with it.

Good luck - it's exciting buying a new piano.

My understanding is that in overdamped pianos the dampers are above the hammers whereas in underdamped pianos they are under the hammers. As overdamped dampers are above the hammers they are nearer to the end of the strings and so have a harder job to do when damping the string.

If you are thinking of increasing your budget do bear in mind there are lots of second hand Yamaha U1 and U3s out there, some reconditioned, going for between, say, £2000 and £3000. They might not be the most attractive of pianos and some people find them a tad bright but they seem to have a reputation as dependable pianos. (Once again you would need to get them checked by a tuner.)

Just a thought - not that I am making a recommendation.

Hello again, Skylark. Hope you're still enjoying the search.

Straight strung - refers to the method of stringing. The idea of slanting the strings crosswise allows better length and therefore tone. Although some straight strung pianos have a nice tone, most do not. It is an older form of stringing and is usually not recommended.

A way to see this is that straight strung pianos are generally narrower. The space to the left of the last bass note is the same as the space to the right of the top treble note.

Over/under dampered - refers to the position of the dampers (duh). Easy to check. Lift the lid and if you can't see the hammers, but instead a row of oblong felts, it is overdampered. If you can see the hammers clearly, it is underdampered. In practice, if you hit a note and release it (without sustain pedal) an overdampered piano will sound for a lot longer than an underdampered instrument.

There are some straight strung overdampered pianos out there that are good instruments - but I would not buy one without a lot of advice and thought. An overdampered straight strung instrument will have limitations (such as in staccato playing) but a good one is usually considered fine up to grade 4/5.

Hope this helps

*drools*

There are some gorgeous pianos there!

Straight strung piano: http://www.kentpianoservice.co.uk/marksimages/DSC04036.jpg
(The action seems to be standing on top of the piano, not in it!)

Over strung piano: http://www.uk-piano.org/forums-photos/Overstrung-piano.jpg

This is excellent advice. First pick something you like the sound and feel of. Then go back later to get it checked out by an INDEPENDENT technician. Not by a good pianist ... by a trained piano technician.

With a reputable store it is probably safe to do without such a check, but a good tuner/technican's fee would be such a small part of the price of a good piano that it is hardly worth the risk.

Of course buying privately is where the real bargains are - but that is a real minefield.

Anyway - good luck.

Would I be right in saying that anything with a repaired/reconditioned soundboard would be best generally avoided? Surely once anything has happened to it, it will never be the same again?

There is no black or white answer. It all depends on how good it was originally, the nature of the damage, and the quality of the repair.

That is a tough question, Solari.

I would be tempted to say that if a really good quality piano has repairs to the soundboard, it might be worth trying and buying IF you enjoy the piano in all other respects. For sure it has to sound good to your ear and feel good to play.

Soundboards are a big question these days. You don't get the same quality as in the 20's and 30's (and earlier) because the wood is seasoned differently.

We bought from Mark Goodwin on recommendation from my piano teacher. Very, very happy with the result and with the service.

Skylark - if you want me to scan you the used piano checklist from the Piano Book, just email me.

I called into the Yorkshire College of Music today and had a look at one of their upright pianos. I could see that it was overstrung and I understand about the dampers now (it was underdampered) - many thanks for those explanations.

And thanks for all the further advice and web site links - I feel better informed now



Thanks saxophile, yes that would be very helpful

Having had a quick browse for you, there seems to be a good selection of yamaha u1 and u3s around. I have a yamaha u3 (i bought it new though) and have always been very very happy with it They all tend to be shiny black though so possibly not suitable for you

I went with a friend to help her buy a piano (she's about grade 2, an adult learner), coincidentally, to shops in York and Leeds. As a bye the bye we didn't find anything in York but lots to chose from in Leeds, at the shop whose name i don't recall but which is near Reedmans. As soon as we walked in (once I'd torn myself away from the fabulous grands) we were faced with the most beautiful piano i have ever seen. It was honey coloured, beautifully made with matching panels and a gorgeous sliding lid. My friend was captivated with it. needless to say when we played it it wasn't the best tone for the money. We looked at mnay nice pianos but my friend kept coming back to the lovely one. In the end she said to me, 'This doesn't have the best tone for the money, does it?' And I said it didn't and pointed out the one that stood out for me. She then said she was going to buy the lovely piano anyway as it was so beautiful. She has never regretted her decision for a moment. She loves her piano and it looks fabulous as well as being good enough for her to play.

I'm not suggesting you buy a piano entirely for its looks but it is definitely worth thinking about. I hated the appearance of our first piano and half the reason i swapped it was for the looks.

Fancy something like this .....?



http://pianoandsynth.com/wp-content/upload...grand_piano.jpg

You couldn't but be happy when playing this piano!!

Thanks for the responses, and I love that piano elizabeth21


There's been a major and very exciting development since I last wrote here! When I told one of my friends that I was going to get an acoustic piano, she said I could have their family piano if I wanted, which is no longer used, and hasn't been used for many years. It was her parents' piano and this is my oldest friend so I knew her parents quite well. They would be pleased if I had it "to keep it in the family" and I would like to have it to remind me of them.

It's a *very* beautiful piano in burr walnut. I think it's around 100 years old, and the make is Hupfer which is German. My friend's family has had it for around 30-35 years but it's been played very little in all that time. I had a look at it initially and then asked my teacher about it. It turns out that my teacher is really keen on old pianos and restoration, and he offered to come and look at it for me. So he came last night, took it all to bits, and said there's very little wrong with it It would benefit from a new set of upper? strings but not essential immediately. The soundboard and pin block are fine. The sustain pedal needs adjusting but easy to do. The hammers and dampers are fine. Something needs doing to improve the action of the keys - I can't quite remember what he said he would do but he said it was easy. Considering it hasn't been played for many years, it wasn't too badly out of tune. He didn't even think it needs a technician to look over it and he's happy to do the restoration work required.




So where to put it? It's always been in a room which doesn't get the sun so the wood still has its original colour. Even if I put it in the furthest corner of my through-lounge/dining, it's an extremely bright room with full sun during the day. I don't want the wood to get bleached - what can I cover it with when not in use, other than a sheet or a blanket. Can you get piano covers that just cover the top half? I don't want it to be a major operation every time I want to have a quick 5 minutes play either. Maybe I'll just get a nice blanket

What about temperature? My lounge/dining tends to be vey warm, partly from the heat of the sun even in winter, and partly through central heating and a gas fire. At a pinch I could put it in the spare room which never gets any sun and the temperature is much cooler and more constant. But I'd prefer it in the lounge/dining where it's accessible and where we can have piano parties. But I don't want to spoil it through the heat. What shall I do?

Firstly congratulations ! Sounds Good. I personally wouldn't worry too much about the sun except to avoid direct sun falling on it particularly in summer . You may be able to protect it by discreet use of your curtains. Do have it accessable in the lounge/diner though, you will play it much more. I'm lucky with mine as the room faces north west, sun only shines in that window late on a summer evening. I do have it tuned twice a year . It's a mid 70's Rogers piano I have had from new

How exciting, skylark! It sounds a lovely piano and it's great that your teacher is happy to do it up for you.

I agree with f#m that it's important to have it accessible, particularly if you intend to use it for piano parties. We've always had our piano in the lounge (there isn't really anywhere else it could go!), although there has sometimes been a conflict of interests, as it's been the family living room and the TV is in there. We're lucky that our lounge faces north-east, so even in a hot summer it's not too bad heat-wise.

I'm sure you could find a nice throw to cover the piano and blend in with your colour scheme. If you're in to making your own curtains you could even buy extra material and make a fitted cover. When you're feeling confident enough, you can invite your friend and her parents over for a mini-recital of some of the pieces you've learnt. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear their piano being used at last.

I am so happy for you Skylark, sounds ideal.

I agree with the others. Have it in your lounge, make a simple 'fitted' cover with, if you like, a zip-down front, in a material that suits your furniture and you should get much pleasure from it.

Thanks for your advice - the lounge/dining it is then! I've decided that I'd like to get a throw in a vintage material - the sort that would have been popular at the time when the piano was made. I can't remember what it's called though so I'm going to ask in a different thread.

It's coming on Friday!!!!

That's quick.

It all happened so fast!! Well done! Enjoy!!!

Yes, very fast, it's tomorrow - I've to be at my friend's house by 8am to meet the removers and I'm so excited I can't sleep!

I've been thinking about the position of it. I'm planning to put it in a corner with the side against an outside wall. I can't think of any problem with this - it's a modern house and the corner doesn't get damp, and I can't see why a tuner would need to access the piano from the side Can anyone else see a problem - and if I need to leave some space at the side, please could you let me know before about 9am if possible!

In my parents' house the piano was against an outside wall (of a modern house) and this was not a problem for the piano. People could hear me playing when walking past but fortunately I didn't realise this until after I'd left home and was no longer playing regularly.

I have never put the piano right into the corner - more for aesthetic reasons than anything else. A piano tuner needs to open the lid and remove the front but shouldn't need to access the sides for this.

The deed is done!!!! Here it is...







Kerioboe, thanks for reassuring me. It's been a real problem finding space for it - I know the corner isn't the best place for it but unfortunately there was nowhere else it could go.

The move went very smoothly - no rain, in fact it's a bright sunny day but frost/ice so thick that I thought it was snow at first. It only took them about 10 minutes or so at either end and by 8.45am I'd got a piano