Hi all
I'm an adult learner (violin) and somewhere between Gr 2 and 3. I did Gr 2 in November.

When I use my 4th finger, my teacher points out that not only do I bring my elbow under (which is good) but I also move my hand (which is apparently NOT so good!!).

Its hard to explain, but when I use fingers 1-3 I just place them on the string. When I use my 4th, I bring my hand slightly over the fingerboard to reach. Not so much on either A or E; more on D and G.

Having played piano for 10 years when I was a kid, I know I have short fingers which is why I compensate by moving my hand slightly.

Is it really so wrong to do that?

Hello Molly,
I can surly sypothise with you. I am an adult learner (no idea what grade) but when I started there was no way I could reach the notes with my fourth finger. I did some finger stretching and this combined with always trying soon got me to the point that I could reach the notes.

Hi, Molly I'm just learning the violin too, but not quite as advanced as you yet, just preparing for grade 1. I have real trouble with the 4th finger too, so I can certainly sympthasise here! One of the best exercises my teacher told me to do to help it feel a little natural was this: play an open string, then put the first finger down in 1st position, then the 2nd finger, then the 3rd finger goes onto the string, and then put the 4th finger down, but only in a half step (for example, on the G string, C to C#, on the D string G to G# etc.) then repeat the exercise, only this time, do a full tone (C to D on the G string, G to A on the D). Repeat this a few times each practice session on all four strings, and hopefully it should help you to see improvements over time

Thanks Alan and Fran for those tips - I'll put them into practice!

After 18 months I am begining to be able to use my pinky on the D and A strings.

I am (allegedly) around grade 6 standard currently but still have problems with my 4th finger....

It's not entirely surprising; in everyday activity, for most people, there's not much call for using your little finger and as a consequence the hypothenar muscles are poorly developed. Compare these muscles (on the side of your hand below your little finger) to the thenar muscles which move your thumb - in my hand they're fairly flat whereas the thenar muscles form a prominent pad.

It can take years to strengthen the hypothenar muscles - look upon it as body-building for the fingers - but it will come in time - just keep using pinky and pinky will grow nice and strong!

it still feels so unnatural really!

Images of me lifting bags of sugar with my pinky are coming to mind

Maybe they should make pinky dumbells for budding musicians!

My greatest fear is that your teacher is blindfolded to your own physique. No two people have exactly the same hand shape, size or flexibility, however, while there is a basic shape the hand should make over the fingerboard, certain compromises have to be made for those with small hands or short fingers - especially the little finger.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with rotating the hand from the wrist in order to provide additional reach, or indeed opening the hand out more, but, shifting the entire hand would be considered poor technique. This is bacause too much movement of the entire hand will cause issues with intonation.

If you can get your hands on a copy of Simon Fischer's Basics, you'll find there's a complete section on hand position for those with large hands and those with small hands. A lot of this information has been previously published in the mid-20th century by the violinist Ivan Galamian, so it's not something that's totally new. His work, along with that of Dorothy DeLay, take a holistic approach to teaching rather than forcing all students into the same mold.

It's just unfortunate there are still a lot of teachers who stick to old school techniques.

EDIT: Finger strength will increase with practice and so will flexibility, so don't despair.

I like that idea very very much...new invention idea for you there, Looney?

In all seriousness, finger strengthening would be better done using a squeezy stress ball. The sort made from neoprene rubber or similar which can be squashed in the hand, by the fingers, using a similar motion to that used for playing the violin. You can concentrate practice on one or two fingers at a time if required.

Trying to weight-lift with individual fingers is likely to cause tendon and/or joint injury.

I've just realised that I didnt reply to your tips Amanda... I feel very rude!

So sorry. Thanks for the tip about the Simon Fischer book; I will check it out. Having looked it up online, it sounds like it might be a good resource to have for technique in general
Thanks !

I can also vouch for the Simon Fischer book - very good.

My 4th finger is also a bit dodgy- my teacher has put me onto a new technique with Galamian and Simon Fischer promote.

That is to line up your 4th finger before you play a piece ie E on the A string - once you have that note, then "pull" or "stretch" your other fingers back to reach the lower notes.

I went into more detail on one of my threads - might give you a better idea on what I mean. Was only posted within the last 2 weeks.

Its helped my 4th finger no end.

I saw your post Musbird and when I read it, it was like lightbulbs going off all over the place It made perfect sense to me and I've been putting into practice.

It was really helpful, thank you!

HOORRAY for Musbird suggestion