Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Musings On Learning
Forums > Viva Network > Viva Piano
lostchord
First of all I have to say this is not a whinge and I am not looking for excuses! This is more general observations and musings on the way piano playing is taught within the ABRSM grade system. As a 50 year old late starter who has been playing for the last 10 years I am currently working towards the grade 5 exams in June, which I want to sit. I’m not doing it because my Mum says I have to!!!! Pieces, scales and aural are heading in the right direction and I have no great concerns about these. Sight reading is not nearly good enough though, even though I passed at grades 3 and 4. I have been trying the pieces in the grade 5 sight reading book and whilst I get through it is always a struggle, never a pleasure which is a shame as I really enjoy sight reading. Consequently I’ve decided to go back to the beginning, have dug out my grade 2 sight reading books and ‘am going through these. I can play these at a good tempo and I would say with about 80% accuracy, though this does vary. My plan is to keep at these every day and sight read grade 2/grade 3 pieces when I can to help develop my sight reading skills, which I think are absolutely fundamental to good piano playing. I’ll then do the same with grade 3 and then 4. I also watched someone recently sight read her way through one of my books and it was a joy to behold and great inspiration. So my point is does working through the grade system mitigate against to some extent of developing a depth/breadth of skills which would be gained through reaching a grade and then spending time exploring/learning/sight reading a whole range of material at that grade. It seems to me the grade system is a very linear one and it is possible to get to grade 5 or whatever and only be able to play a few pieces really well at any one time. Personally I feel I should be able to pick up any piece of grade 3 or 4 music at the moment and make a reasonable job of it and would be able to do so because I had sufficient background and experience to do so. Unfortunately I do not have that confidence, or ability. Recently I was talking about this to a mandolin playing friend and she was amazed that I could not sight read very well and assumed that all musicians could do it. Also why is improvisation not taught/encouraged? It was expected of players in Bach's time, and again to me it seems to be fundamental to good musicianship. Any thoughts would be welcome.
skylark
IMO exams are a tool to measure our progress. An examination board provides the tool - what we do with that tool is up to each individual. Some will make more worthwhile use of it than others. Just my opinion though.
river
I think you're conflating "learning music" and "taking exams". The purpose of learning music is not to achieve a particular grade, the grade is simply a marker of progress. Taking an exam doesn't prevent you from doing whatever you want between grades, and a good teacher will have no problem introducing a wide range of music, or working on sight-reading, or improvisation, if that's what you want to learn.

Yes, you can "learn" the grades, and do nothing else except the set pieces for each grade. This is unfortunate, because it devalues the qualification for everyone else, but no-one's forcing you to do that.
Mini_mo
QUOTE(lostchord @ Feb 16 2010, 12:14 PM) *

First of all I have to say this is not a whinge and I am not looking for excuses! This is more general observations and musings on the way piano playing is taught within the ABRSM grade system. As a 50 year old late starter who has been playing for the last 10 years I am currently working towards the grade 5 exams in June, which I want to sit. I’m not doing it because my Mum says I have to!!!! Pieces, scales and aural are heading in the right direction and I have no great concerns about these. Sight reading is not nearly good enough though, even though I passed at grades 3 and 4. I have been trying the pieces in the grade 5 sight reading book and whilst I get through it is always a struggle, never a pleasure which is a shame as I really enjoy sight reading. Consequently I’ve decided to go back to the beginning, have dug out my grade 2 sight reading books and ‘am going through these. I can play these at a good tempo and I would say with about 80% accuracy, though this does vary. My plan is to keep at these every day and sight read grade 2/grade 3 pieces when I can to help develop my sight reading skills, which I think are absolutely fundamental to good piano playing. I’ll then do the same with grade 3 and then 4. I also watched someone recently sight read her way through one of my books and it was a joy to behold and great inspiration. So my point is does working through the grade system mitigate against to some extent of developing a depth/breadth of skills which would be gained through reaching a grade and then spending time exploring/learning/sight reading a whole range of material at that grade. It seems to me the grade system is a very linear one and it is possible to get to grade 5 or whatever and only be able to play a few pieces really well at any one time. Personally I feel I should be able to pick up any piece of grade 3 or 4 music at the moment and make a reasonable job of it and would be able to do so because I had sufficient background and experience to do so. Unfortunately I do not have that confidence, or ability. Recently I was talking about this to a mandolin playing friend and she was amazed that I could not sight read very well and assumed that all musicians could do it. Also why is improvisation not taught/encouraged? It was expected of players in Bach's time, and again to me it seems to be fundamental to good musicianship. Any thoughts would be welcome.


I really agree with what you say. My husband and myself keep having these discussions about exams... he thinks I should do them and I am not so keen. I feel that it will be a piece of paper that will have shown a snapshot of a performance on an unfamiliar instrument in nerve racking conditions! So why do it, but I understand everyone has different goals.

For me I want to and do ensure that at each generalised grade that I am working at, I can pick up most pieces of that level and play them fairly well, along with being able to sight read, have the technical ability for the pieces, as well as work to exam syllabus requirements like scales, aural etc. But this desire is down to the way I want to learn, not necessarily how I have been told to do it.

I do find sight reading very hard and know that it just cannot keep up with the rest of my learning/progress which is a shame, but I persevere, but it does get me down from time to time.

I also agree that practicing to play by ear and learning to improvise is a great skill and asset, as well as being able to commit songs to memory and not rely on the score, however I probably practice for over 10 hours a week and I just do not have time to do all of these things. Well actually, I would, but it would mean less time on other areas of practice.

In fact when I think about it, I wonder how many people I know who can sight read well, play by ear, improvise etc etc. I think naturally people have their strength and weaknesses. I know with my two girls I try to encourage them to improvise and play by ear as well as the classical learning they have from their teacher. Hopefully in years to come it will pay off and of course they have all the time in the world to develop these skills.
barry-clari
I don't know if it's me (or indeed if it's the same on piano), but the woodwind sight reading tests (for all boards) are often the most atypical pieces of music I've ever come across. Some seem almost designed to catch you unawares...

I do think a certain amount of practicality, i.e. music that's in a style that you're likely to come across, would help make the sight reading test a much more pleasant experience.
Solari
QUOTE(Mini_mo @ Feb 16 2010, 12:49 PM) *

I do find sight reading very hard and know that it just cannot keep up with the rest of my learning/progress which is a shame, but I persevere, but it does get me down from time to time.


If it's any consolation, mine's still not brilliant, but it does vary greatly according to style of the piece that I'm tackling. You will learn to spend a bit of time analysing what you're about to play, recognise patterns, repetition, intervals, and things *will* become easier as time goes on smile.gif You just have to keep at it.

My teacher is getting me to sight-read a different Anna Magdalena book piece each week in front of her which is interesting... wacko.gif Baroque just doesn't seem predictable at all sometimes and the LH is all over the place.

@ Barry - I think they don't use familiar music in sight reading tests as this could give an unfair advantage to someone who had already studied the piece. Saying that, they could pick easier passages from higher grade compositions to try to mitigate that possibility...
sbhoa
QUOTE(lostchord @ Feb 16 2010, 12:14 PM) *

So my point is does working through the grade system mitigate against to some extent of developing a depth/breadth of skills which would be gained through reaching a grade and then spending time exploring/learning/sight reading a whole range of material at that grade. It seems to me the grade system is a very linear one and it is possible to get to grade 5 or whatever and only be able to play a few pieces really well at any one time.

It depends on how you use the exams. You can work almost totally with exams in mind and be in danger of taking a very narrow view or you can do as you suggest and take time to consolidate, improve and widen your skill base between grades.
If you have a teacher who thinks that going from grade to grade is how it's done then it's not much help. Also as a teacher it's tricky when parents think that the exam route is all there is and who are not awfully happy when you want to take your time and allow their offspring to enjoy and expand their playing.

QUOTE(Solari @ Feb 16 2010, 12:55 PM) *

@ Barry - I think they don't use familiar music in sight reading tests as this could give an unfair advantage to someone who had already studied the piece. Saying that, they could pick easier passages from higher grade compositions to try to mitigate that possibility...

I don't think you need use familiar music but music in familiar styles.
barry-clari
QUOTE(Solari @ Feb 16 2010, 12:55 PM) *


@ Barry - I think they don't use familiar music in sight reading tests as this could give an unfair advantage to someone who had already studied the piece. Saying that, they could pick easier passages from higher grade compositions to try to mitigate that possibility...


The sight reading tests are all composed specially for the purpose, what I'm thinking, as sbhoa has said, is that they could make more use of familiar styles. Often, you'll get pieces which will, for example, spend 95 of their time in A major, but will stick in a couple of B flats in awkward spots just to catch you unawares...
Mad Tom
QUOTE(Mini_mo @ Feb 16 2010, 02:49 PM) *

I feel that it will be a piece of paper that will have shown a snapshot of a performance on an unfamiliar instrument in nerve racking conditions! So why do it, but I understand everyone has different goals.

Well is that not valuable? A public performance (at least for a pianist or organist) is exactly that: "a performance on an unfamiliar instrument in nerve racking conditions".
Panthera
QUOTE(river @ Feb 16 2010, 12:36 PM) *

I think you're conflating "learning music" and "taking exams".

agree.gif Exams are just yardsticks and a good teacher should ensure you get a well-rounded music education and not simply teach the syllabus... To use your example of improvisation, I remember having to come up with a new "variation" on the theme of Three Blind Mice in every lesson for months and months when I was learning piano as a child laugh.gif
Mini_mo
QUOTE(Mad Tom @ Feb 16 2010, 03:04 PM) *

QUOTE(Mini_mo @ Feb 16 2010, 02:49 PM) *

I feel that it will be a piece of paper that will have shown a snapshot of a performance on an unfamiliar instrument in nerve racking conditions! So why do it, but I understand everyone has different goals.

Well is that not valuable? A public performance (at least for a pianist or organist) is exactly that: "a performance on an unfamiliar instrument in nerve racking conditions".


Umm you have a point... why have you not left for Australia yet? tongue.gif wink.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.