the Etudes are amazing! saying that when I first came across them 5/6 years ago I thought hang on a minute did Debussy's illness kill his music? but yeah I do love them now. They are all pretty tricky though so not something you can learn "just for the sake of doing some Debussy" which seems to be the main reason a lot of people learn anything later than Chopin/Liszt which I find a real shame.

Currently working on Jean Philippe Rameau's menuet en rondo. There is very little direction in the piece and having now broken the back of it (i.e. I can mostly hit the right notes) my teacher suggested introducing some directions e.g. ties, staccato etc. The piece is transformed! Now all I need to do is unlearn the way I've learned and re-learn the new way.


Also working on a little jazz piece by Matyas Seiber. This one has taken me a long time to get close to acceptable. But well worth it. Again, teacher suggested a few improvements last night and the piece just comes to life.

Piano teachers are GREAT!

So we can look forward to your new pieces on the 11th then?

It's in the diary. Haven't decided what I'm going to play yet. Maybe I should otherwise it'll be a car crash.

I don't know how it's come around so quickly - I know that I'll probably stumble through a few parts but hey, it's not a formal concert so who cares!

Naughty, naughty. Bad attitude. You never know who might be listening, who might be moved or inspired by your playing, or what future opportunities a good performance might open up for you (and ... conversely ... that a poor one will close off).

I'm planning on dedicating the week off that I have to polishing up pieces.. but if I make a few slips then I'm hardly going to kick myself considering where I'm at in my piano-playing life (ie: right at the bottom of Everest). This is an informal, social gathering more than anything! There is no audience apart from those playing.

That is more like it.

Of course you should not beat yourself up. There will always be slips. It was the "who cares" ...

you should

and I know that you do.

I've been told by several people here that I should never play poker, my face is a running commentary while playing, apparently... LOL

"No!, too loud, too soft, wrong balance in that chord, crescendo was too quick, argh wrong note!, oh my god here comes the difficult bit, phew, made it!" etc etc

Solari - just thought I would give you a little evidence to underline clavicembalo's comment. Back in Jan, when I posted that I was starting the adagio from Beethoven's Pathetique, you posted something along the lines of that having taken you 3 months to get under your fingers.

3 months on, I'm reporting back to say that I can now play - the first 1.5 pages ... not very well....

Well, I had my lesson on Tuesday and have been set Wedding Day as Easter holiday homework!! My teacher admitted that some parts might (!) be hard with my small hands, but that I should still work hard at it. He said I should think myself lucky, it's basically in ternary form so there's less to learn.

MT - how many Lyric Pieces are there, and which others would I be able to attempt? (G7 ish)

Not MT, but there are 60+ (66?) Lyric Pieces in 10 volumes; most of them manageable at your level, really. From the top of my head, Melody and Canon from op.38 are nice. Erotik from op.43 is one of my all-time favourites. March of the Trolls op.54 is great fun, and of course the famous Notturno from the same op. is beautiful. And you should manage Wedding Day fine; I have tiny hands and did ok with it

You'll get there

I think the secret to this was that I photocopied the score and used highlighters to mark out all the repeated parts, so I could say "Oh, this is the same as that"... so learning one part meant I'd learned another part elsewhere too (or the same bit in a different rhythm)... So maybe I cheated? You have to be careful doing this though as I was a 3rd out on a couple of notes, so learn something wrong once and it stuffs you.. At least with this piece I find there's not much option in fingerings.

Also I tried to take on board all the repeated finger movements, pretty much the whole thing feels like a see-saw if that makes sense. I really need to polish up the crescendo part and the ornament part, it's started slipping again

Thanks! Erotik and Notturno are both in the book that my teacher has lent me. He has played all seven pieces to me. They are both lovely but I gave up on the 2 against 3 in Notturno (being lazy ) and got side-tracked with other things before getting to look at Erotik properly. It's on The List, though!

I may ask for some music for my birthday

Debussy Suite Bergamasque - re-learning Claire De Lune, newly learning the Menuet. Will move on to Prelude and Passepied soon.

Re-learning Mozart K332

Most importantly.. re-learning to play the piano after a hiatus of 15 years

Oddly, it's Claire De Lune that I haven't yet tackled. I've played the other movements for years!

At times, I'm also guilty of piano gurning : raised/furrowed eyebrows, smiles, grimaces, bared teeth...tip of the tongue'lower lip protruding, you name it. I used to have no problem with playing in front of an audience, when i was a lot younger...but recently i've found that making mistakes can actually help you become less apprehensive and self concious about making mistakes in the future, if that makes any sense.

Fun isn't it.

Welcome to the forums.

Thank you. Re-learning is actually more fun than learning it the first time. I am learning faster- I can memorise better now that I know how to analyse music, and I have a better handle on how to practice.

Ooh Tom you big bad bully!
I think, in a way, caring too much can be our downfall in performance.
By the way this comment is after quite a few glasses of wine!

He is bigger than me! And younger and fitter.

As of Monday I'm going to be practising like mad... things seem to be falling to pieces instead of improving. I need to take my own advice instead of just skimming over things. Earlier I just gave up and went to the pub, after swearing at the piano a lot... This is the first time I've actually had a proper angry tantrum over playing

If none of it goes right then I'll be playing 3 blind mice on Sunday!

I think you should do that anyway, Sol...sounds like a laugh!

It's a good job the piano is heavy, I'm not strong enough to throw it out of the window in frustration!

Just to frustrate me even more, the Jubilee line is stuffed tomorrow. Just took out my anger on TFL, writing a mail of complaint.

Anyways, bed for me...

hello everyone!

i am currently learning:

Bach Prelude N°12 from the WTC II ... as of now i am just supposed to learn the first page, which is relatively easy, the second page however does look difficult ^^''

Gnossienne N°5 by Erik Satie ... i've previously learnt the gnossiennes n°2&3 and i have to say that the n°5 is a tad more difficult than the rest ... i basically have to practice the tempo of the left hand and that's it, but personally: i do not like the 5th gnossienne ... my favorite is n°3!

Prelude N°6 Op. 28 by Chopin ... i cannot seem to get the right hand to play softer and not as loud as the left hand ... advice from anyone? my piano teacher tells me to shift my weight to the left side, but that doesn't really do the trick for me xD

Raindrop Prelude by Chopin ... i ALWAYS forget to get off the pedal when i practice it ... i am only supposed to practice the beginning so that's still easier (i am scared of the second page) ... idk why but i dont have a set opinion about this prelude ... one day i love it and the next day it's boring the ###### out of me x.x

Étude N°4 Op. 1 by Liszt .. i LOVE this etude and it's actually not that hard ... the only challenge is the tempo: it has to be Mazeppa-like fast and I'm not even close to that.


... yeaaah that's what i am learning ... does anybody know what grade the 1st mvt of the schubert sonata in a minor (d.845) is and the 2nd mvt of beethoven's pathetique sonata?

thank you!

I can never wait to get to the ff "storm" section! That's my favourite part! Don't let the sheet scare you, I find page 2 easier than page 1 due to the repeated amount of muscle movements

Welcome to the forums, by the way!

Hello and welcome to the forums

IMHO Second movement of the Pathetique is about grade 5 to 8 - i.e. you can make a start on it at G5 and should be able to play it technically by about G6, but you'll probably be closer to G7 or 8 before it's really up together with the dynamics.

Mole

Edit (and returning to the thread title): I'm currently working (STILL) on the 1st and 3rd movments of this one

A beautiful selection of pieces.


You must learn it all. I did not think there was that much difference in difficulty between the first and second halves. Besides how can you ever play it for anyone if you don't learn the whole thing? You can hardly leave it hanging there, unfinished and unresolved.


That is indeed a mystery. All you have to do is bring out the melody, and subdue the accompaniment. Why does it matter which hand has which part? Play it more slowly. Keep slowing down until you reach a speed where you hands WILL obey you. Then when it is secure (not before) bring it up to the speed it should be.


I hate putting grades on pieces. It is the pianist that is at a certain grade, not the pieces. Both are quite beautiful pieces, and well worth knowing, but more demanding than they might at first seem - at least if they are to be played really well. I'd imagine you could tackle them and make a reasonable job of them at grade 5, and who is to stop anyone that wants to try them earlier than that. But they won't sound so good as they will when you have your FRSM!

What am I learning?
Well, apart from stuff that I am going to be playing at the Chetham's summer school and in exams, I have just spent a couple of weeks bringing a couple of Scriabine Preludes up to a performable standard. Naturally that led to listening to a lot of Scriabine recordings

As a result I have been seized with the mad desire to learn ALL TWELVE of the Etudes in Op. 8. They are SOOOOO... beautiful.

Scarlatti, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin ... and all the rest, will have to wait!

At least my music bag will be a bit lighter.

The Schubert will be about Grade 8 standard, I quite like that one.
Beethoven, I think its been set for Grade 7, but you could try a bit earlier.


I have given up on Clementi in F# minor.
Now trying to get all 9 pieces of Waldscenen by Schumann into performance standard. Also a couple more of the 'Shost' Preudes and Fugues. Still working a bit on Beethoven Tempest Op31 No 2



..........Then do the Op11 ones. They vary a lot in difficulty though ! My favourite is the straightforward no 2 in A minor, only about grade 7+.

Fur elise
Mozart k545 1st movement

Any in particular?

I have the Preludes performed by Piers Lane and the Sonatas by Hamelin.

The Op 11 'ones' I mentioned above are Preludes, not Etudes, as I may have implied.
If you havent done any Scriabin, try those 24 Op11 Preludes. I have a recording by Gordon Fergus Thompson. Some of the later preludes are on the same CD. As I said they vary a lot in difficulty.
I play about half of them , the rest are beyond me (well at the proper speed anyway)!

All the Preludes, Etudes, Sonatas, and several of the poemes and Impromptus

Two excellent recordings. Ashkenazy's recording of the Sonatas is good too. My copy of the Etudes is by Alexander Paley. It is a cheap CD on the Naxos label, but he plays very well.

My present Scriabine repertoire is half a dozen Preludes from Op 11 and Op 15, one etude, and the first movement of Sonata No 2, and none of it yet sounds like I want it to sound.

For the past 7/8 years I have provided half an hour's piano music as folk arrive for the school's annual Prize Giving Evening.

The first year I chose a programme of music by Spanish composers. The following year, English, then subsequently French and then South American. I was in the process of devising one by Russian composers when a Bach-inspired programme butted in. Last September I revitalised my original Spanish programme, since it required less work while I was preparing for the upheaval of Grade 8.

For the Russian programme I had started browsing through the sets of Scriabin preludes for the first time and although I have just taken a look, I can't immediately put my fiinger on the shortlist that I had so far compiled.

March and Gavotte from Prokofiev's Op.12 were there, two or three of Shostakovich Preludes from his set of 24, a couple from Tchaikovsky's Seasons, two Rachmaninov Preludes Op.23 No.s 3 & 4, Medtner's Quatre Contes Op.26/1, Stravinsky's Tango and then a few of the easier Scriabin from which to choose.

(Maddeningly, the only programme I have no record of, is that of French composers, although I can remember some of the works.)

As a matter of interest, did you go for cross hands or change hands in the middle section of the second movement?

I started the third movement a few months ago, but I've put that on hold for a while as the progress was dismal, and I felt my effort was being better rewarded elsewhere. I shall revisit it soon.

I've finally started some serious work on the Grieg piano concerto, although I'm rather scared of learning the Cadenza at the minute, far too many notes for my liking!

That cross hands bit is the hardest in the whole sonata. I tried for ages to play it cross hands, but your fingers tend to be somehow at the wrong angle ! I hav enow resorted to 'cheat 'mode

Me too. Its encouraging that you think that's the hardest bit. Maybe I'll revisit the other movements soon, then...

I'm still struggling with Jean-Philippe Rameau's menuet en rondo. I have learned it to a level where the fingering was pretty secure, both hands legato, and still to overlay some dynamics in. My teacher then suggested I play the LH staccato while RH is legato. She also suggested connecting the first two (LH) notes of each bar, emphasizing the first, and then letting notes 2 & 3 diminish. I can do this LH on its own. When I try and put two hands together it falls apart - I can still hit all the RH notes pretty accurately, but the LH notes are not hitting in time with the RH notes. When I slow down to try and get both hands to work together at the right time, the RH falls over, I can't even hit the right notes. RH is generally 6 quavers to a bar and LH 3 crotchets.

Anyone got any tips on this?

This kind of issue is familiar to me as I seem to have co ordination problems at times. At the moment you are probably trying to think about the new parts to add in which is why the other parts go wrong!

If I had the same issue as you I would put my hands into the 5 finger position on c, one octave apart and firstly practice pressing just C in the RH as quavers, whilst the left hand plays the crotchets as you describe (1 note only), so that way you can concentrate on the dynamics/touch rather than the notes. Hopefully the timing should be ok. Once you have done that, then add more notes into it, or perhaps have your hands in the same position for the bar you describe but just play a single note in RH and another note in the LH. Once that works then add 2 different notes, etc etc. Or, play the crotchets in the LH as the score dictates, concentrating on staccato and diminishing but in the right hand just play one note in the form of quavers.

I think it's just a matter of really breaking it down to focus on the new elements without having to worry about other bits.

Hope this makes sense? I am sure other people will have better advice but i thought I would put my penny's worth in as this is a familiar issue for me or certainly has been in the past.

I've decided to start learning some pieces out of the grade 5 piano book that has bene sitting on my piano since January I've started at the very beginning (tis a very good place to start.... ) with the Haydn Vivace Assai...I've been working on it on and off all day, and I think I've got the first two lines of it down...not quite up to speed yet, though I had a brief look at the Norweigan Air off the C list too...very pretty, but I'm not a fan of triplets at all!
I've also been working on Fur Elise properly, I've been playing (I use the term lightly...) the da-da da-da da-da bit (you know what I mean ) for about two years but I just discovered it in a piano book of mine and so decided to learn it-it's gorgeous, and yet I'd never heard it past the usual hackeyned opening!

I'm toying with learning this too. I too have played the overplayed part (which is the easy part I might add) but not sure how I would deal with the rest of it. But I'll never know unless I try . But I agree the rest of it is beautiful. If you haven't already heard Valentin Lisitza play it, I would have a listen.

Thanks mini mo
I shall give this a bash.

It's gorgeous, it's a bit tricky in place (timing mostly, in my case ) but it's well worth learning, I'd say

You know... this is one piece I'm refusing to learn. It just bores me to tears... *hides*

I can play the first part just as well as the next person but the middle section is just so much more demanding than where I'm at right now...

Yes, but if you can play the middle movement of the Pathetique ...

Ah ha but its different when you really want to play something isnt it?

Exactly! I was terrified of the "Raindrop" No.15 prelude but actually seem to be almost there with it now, purely because I really want to play it - having an affinity for a piece makes it 200% easier to learn IMO

Oh, and Tom sounds like my teacher.. "Well this is much easier than other pieces you can play..."

I have started learning the Kuhlau piece from the Grade 5 syllabus this week. It's a bit beyond me at the mo but I'm getting there. Only doing Grade 4 sometime this year but love the piece so wanted to give it a go as a bit of a challenge.

I've also started on an arrangement of "It Ain't Neccesarily So" which I'm hoping to get to a standard good enough for a forum concert later in the year. It's quite straightforward but there are a few tricky leaps in the left hand which required some subtle pedalling, not being reknown for this it is proving a bit of a challenge I think once I get my fingerings sorted I'll be OK

Lois

Started on J.S.Bach's Praeludium 1, when my teacher played it, it sounded beautiful and looks fairly straightforward but need to work out the correct fingering and workon making it flow -