Thanks guys... There was actually a very obvious solution in my case - work on the middle movements! I had this stupid idea that I needed to master the outer movements first, but it obviously backfired :rollseyes: I have decided that I'm not going to touch the Sinfonia or Capriccio this week, just focus on improving the Allemande and Rondeau (which I know but haven't polished) and learning the Courante and Sarabande Along with not neglecting poor Chopin and getting that nasty page in the Barcarolle with the chords all over the place sorted out...

Now my DipABRSM is out of the way, I am learning my own arrangement of the Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe-2nd suite. Currently fighting the urge to cut bits out for the sake of making it easier to play- I would rather it turn into something I can't manage right now but will master some day than sacrifice the music itself for short term gain.

In terms of other things to work on, I'm beginning to feel quite saturated by "beautiful pieces". I need to find something with a bite and think some Liszt might fit the bill...

I've rediscovered Hanon. I know that it has its detractors, but at the moment I'm finding it very useful as target exercises of my technically weakest spots, the weakest of which is left hand third and fourth fingers. It's got all the nastiest patterns involving any fingering that you can think of.

Problem is brain has now turned to oatmeal from playing it.

I'm between teachers and I've got time on my hands. Currently on the music stand are:

Schubert Sonata in A Major (D 664) going OK, but the first movement is much trickier than I thought it would be
Brahms Intermezzos Op 117 (Currently learning 1 and 2 of the set) going OK
Bach P&F book 1 no 20 in A minor. The fugue is tricky. Progressing at a rate of 4 bars per day..

Jon

It was good enough for Rachmaninoff (and any number of other Russian virtuosi)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Louis_Hanon

Do any of the detractors play as well as Rachmaninoff did?

The detractors usually detract because it's completely unmusical. Which it is. However, there are times when what I need is something unmusical, because I'm too mentally tired to work on something musical! Since then, I have put Hanon on hold and am working on a few of Chopin Op. 25, as I have a bit more mental energy now.

First piano lesson next week!!!!! can'twaitcan'twaitcan'twait

In regards to Hanon and the like, I find them good for focusing on pure technique. They are literally meant as exercises, nothing more which makes them more productive than hacking through Czerny etc which involve "actual music".

My teacher has told me I need to spend an hour a day working through the Dohnanyi ones and a further hour working scales up to crotchet= 144. It's mind numbingly boring, but it really is helping me.

In terms of repertoire, I am learning:

Schubert/Liszt: Des Madchens Klage
Ravel: Toccata (revisiting after years)

My teacher has also suggested I do a Licentiate diploma (which my degree counts as prerequisite for). She said I'd be better off with LTCL as they, to quote her "aren't quite as formidable as the ABRSM". I am still considering this, I don't know if I want to deal with diploma faffing again...

I do Hanon exercises I also transpose them into different keys, anyone else? I think they are useful and I enjoy playing through one or two before I start my pieces.

Just getting into practising scales again as well! So I do one Hanon exercise and about 10 or so scales before I start.

My Chopin is really coming along and yesterday I reviewed a few Clementi Sonatinas one I couldn't get my head around a year ago I can sight read now

I'd be ready to stop after that!

Now, I must admit I can't be bothered with scales on clarinet So, I try to play through something about Grade 6 level to get started.

I have noticed I do more productive practise after doing the exercises / scales as it makes me realise playing in my music room is NOT a performance ... I think!

Clarinet scales are harder!
I think that being fluent at scales on clarinet is a bit more important than on piano though.

*creeps into piano thread*

You do come across scales in clarinet works an awful lot - being fluent is important.

*creeps out again*

You do in piano but it's more intuitive on piano.
It is for me anyway.

I don't think that's you : I think generally they're more intuitive on piano. And on bowed strings, for that matter.

I also find scales more intuitive on piano than they were on horn, for me the reason is that I can see where the notes are supposed to "come from" in that I know what fingers need to go where. I only had three fingers in use on horn and the rest had to come from breath and embouchure so it was very much more done "by feel", which sounds like it ought to be intuitive, but wasn't.

I don't know much about the horn, do you get fingering patterns that carry through several different scales?

You do, sort of, but with a double horn you have the thumb valve which makes everything repeat at a fourth higher rather than an octave higher. And you can have different fingerings for the same note - which one I used to use depended on which was easier to play in the required register where easier to play also meant easier to form the note on the embouchure not just easier to press the keys down.

OK, sorry I took this off topic I am a pianist. honest.

She is 'n' all But thanks for that

I agree that scales are less intuitive on wind instruments than on piano and strings, but I think they still are much more important for strings than they are for piano. On piano you don't even have to worry about intonation. Yes, understanding fingerings, crossing the thumb fluently, evenness between hands, etc. can still be difficult with piano scales, but this isn't anything that can't be found in more musically satisfying exercises and pieces. With strings, I think scales are more useful because intonation, good tone production, and physically getting around the instrument is so much more difficult. The motions required to play a four octave scale or arpeggio on piano are pretty repetitive through the octaves, but the same can't be said for a three octave scale or arpeggio on strings because the distances between notes change. Also, the same approach to tone production essentially works for all registers on the piano (assuming one is just playing an even scale or arpeggio), whereas on string instruments the mechanism (in terms of bow speed, contact point, and angle) is quite different in the high, low, and middle ranges. And a lot of these things are hard to find in exercises/repertoire because most things that aren't super-virtuosic don't have as large a range as is spanned by practicing all three octave scales. And that's why I feel strongly that scales aren't nearly as important for piano as for any other instrument I would be interested to hear how you folks who practice piano scales regularly disagree

As for what I'm learning... I've made extremely ambitious goals for what I want to have prepared for my next lesson. I'm sick of underwhelming my wonderful teacher And my next lesson probably won't be until January... so here's what I want to have for then:

Kabalevsky - Sonata no. 3 (it's mostly a matter of getting the third movement up to scratch, the others are alright)
Chopin - Barcarolle (I can basically play the notes, but the music is a different matter )
Mozart - K. 311, 3rd movement (the notes aren't too hard, but it has to be perfect)
Albeniz - Albaicin from Iberia (I've only read through this one - teacher has wanted me to play something from Iberia for a while now, but I hadn't gotten around to it)

Then for technique I also want to work on Chopin op. 10 no. 12 and Moszkowski op. 72 no. 6. I don't know whether I will show these to my teacher, but I think they will help everything else. I think my teacher and I tend to gravitate towards pieces where shoddy technique can be largely compensated for by musicality, so I want to work on some stuff where there's nowhere to hide. I would love to be able to play them at full speed for my teacher and show her that I have better technique than she thinks I do, but that probably won't happen by January.

Of course these are totally realistic goals...

lilly763, thanks for that, I always find it interesting to read about how other instruments have different technical challenges. I can't comment whether scales on piano are less or more important than on other instruments, but I've been mulling over the need for scales / arpeggios / technical exercises in my piano study and find it useful to write those thoughts out.

I find them useful because they are like "condensed technique". I know that technique on its own is useless, but at my current stage in my musical life, I have had a lot of musical experience but not much piano technique experience. I am also able to separate practising technique from practising music - not everyone might find it useful to see these separately, but I do. I need to have both - I need to play scales and Hanon, but also the Revolutionary Etude.

One small point about 4 octave scales on the piano - I find them useful for learning to balance. I'm not very big so if I'm playing at one end of the keyboard or the other, I have to lean in that direction. I recently realised that I have to learn to make this motion smooth as well not just the motion of hands and arms. If that makes any sense at all..

On the horn, I found that the most useful thing about scales was learning to change the embouchure gradually from low to high. 3 octave scales on horn is 3/4 of the range of the instrument and the low end feels very very different from the high end. That's probably an analogue to what you say about strings where the mechanism is different at different points in the range?

I'm just starting to make a real push on my scales, as of today! I'd really love to do my grade 6 in april if possible

Xmas carols
Lizst: Consolation No 3
Joplin: Solace
Rawicz: Snowflakes
Beethoven: Moonlight Sonata (3rd) and Pastoral (2nd)

Sight reading Christmas carols - picked up a huge bookful for ?2 from a charity shop.

Kabalevsky Sonatina Op 13 No. 1 - really enjoying playing this one.

Debussy Golliwog's Cakewalk - revisiting this from 30 years ago.

Picking my way through the Grade 8 book - List C pieces are not too bad but not keen on any from List A. Have got the Clementi Sonata in A major from List B which is coming along okay.

Tried the Scarlatti F#minor for List A ?? Or the Trygve Madsen (Madbassonist did well with it recently)
Scarlatti is down loadable free from IMPSL if you havent got it.

I like the Madsen but it troubles me! In fact I think the fugue thing is going to be my downfall. I've got the Scarlatti now from IMPSL - thank you - and will give it a try.