I have a system in place for advance payment of fees and always issue invoices to give parents plenty of time to bring the payment on the first lesson of the term, but quite often I have to spend 3 weeks or so chasing the payments. Does anybody have a late payment penalty? I am thinking about introducing this just to get them to pay on time, I am sure I would have less problems if this was the case but I don't want to be seen to be too mean!

I think I'm going to update my terms and conditions to reflect a £5 penalty per week. That's quite steep, but fingers crossed it will be enough of a threat!

I used to teach group keyboards and you weren't allowed to attend unless you paid for the lessons BEFORE the start of term or, at the very latest, brought it along to the first lesson. I think this system is too harsh, but it does mean that it's possible to get away with it!

I also think I should get more organised and bill the parents on the very last day of term so that they know the next invoice is due on the first day of term.

that's more or less what i do: apart from my adhoc people, i require payment on the first lesson of the month at the latest for the following month/term. if they forget it, they still have the chance to bring it in before their next lesson starts. if they don't, i send them home and don't teach them until they have paid PLUS i charge them £5 for every written reminder i have to issue, which covers administration costs and interest.

sounds harsh, but works: i only had to use it once since i put it in my t&cs. no, twice to be honest, but that was a very difficult case that had to be passed on to the union (student decided all of a sudden before the new term to stop without giving enough notice and was convinced that telling me one day beforehand would be enough to avoid further payment - bad luck).

i really hate these things, but it's sadly necessary - be too lenient, and people will walk all over you...

OK, good to know that it is working for you. Also, I've not had any money come in since the first week of January, so obviously I have bills to pay and I can't afford to leave money outstanding for too long.

Send the invoices out in advance, but not too far in advance, or they will get chucked on a pile and forgotten! THere needs to be some sense of urgency that the bill is paid. Include a note to the effect that sadly, due to persistent late payments, you are going to have to introduce a penalty of £x for late payments and if a student turns up without having paid, you will have to turn them away. In order to avoid this, could everyone please ensure that payment is made at or before the first lesson of the new term.

With any luck, you won't have to enforce this, but they have all had ample notice, and won't be surprised if you do then add penalties to the bill or refuse to teach them. Good luck.

i actually wrote a very grumpy newsletter about this last year, telling people that this is my livelihood, and like they expect their wage on time, i expect my fees to be paid on time. that's when i changed my t&cs.
the amount of ignorance in some people is really amazing. tried it the patient way, didn't work.

go for it!

It's not being mean - what if you get an overdraft charge or something because of late payers?

I aks payment by the Friday of the second week of the half term, and if that is not realised I put a 10% charge on the next invoice.

Chasing is timeconsuming and you have better things to be doing!

So is monitoring if direct payments have gone into the bank account - and that's what we'll all be doing when cheques are abolished! Unless we stick to cash. It will be the only way to monitor payment without logging every day....and then chasing....
I'm blowed it I'm going to pay the monthly rental and % commission to have a card machine.
(Sorry lorraineliyanage - off topic, but may be relevant to your situation when the time comes.)

hi AnnC
Yes I have to keep checking my bank for online payments. I ask all parents to send me a receipt of the online transaction but none of them ever do. Anyway, new Ts and Cs are on the way to the parents with a £5 a week fee to be added to the next invoice, so it's already shocked two of them into action with the payment. I'm going to add it onto the next invoice so that they can quite clearly see that late payments are not tolerated!

I find that most people in most areas of life respond better to the carrot rather than the stick. So offering a discount (however small ) for upfront payment rather than a penalty for late payment tends to get better results.

Just one perspective.

Fully agree with David - I actually still offer discounts for people who sign a contract (which I absolutely don't have to btw., and I am actually thinking of doing away with it), and it makes NO difference with a certain type of student. In fact, the ones who are most keen to get the discount always seem to be the ones who don't mind paying late.

So no, I cannot subscribe to the "carrot-theory"

Edit: Apart from that, paying on the day or blocks/terms upfront are IMO the only viable options anyway - I would be mad if I billed people afterwards for lessons they already had: I'd probably never see my money without having to chase after it ...

I send an invoice the week before the new payment is due. i only started charging upfront in January. So far most people have paid on time. I'm having problems with one pupil but if she turns up without money this week then I'll have to get rid. Other than that, everyone else is good. One or two have 'forgotten' to being the payment in the lesson but once I've spoken to them they pop the money in.

I usually find it more successful the speak to the parent rather than email/text because it gets an almost instant result. they are usually very apologetic and have usually forgotten because the child hasn't giventhem the invoice in the first place.

The majoirty of pupils are very good and keep on top of their payments. I've even had a few this week try to pay me eventhough money isn't due!!!

The Junior Conservatoire I work for will suspend children from lessons if their parents haven't paid by a certain date - the staff have strict instructions on how to handle this situation...

I was told it is legal if your contract clearly states it beforehand.
As far as I'm aware, using Statutory Late Payment Legislation cannot be used though, since it only applies between two businesses. So you cannot charge interest if it is a private customer. That's at least what the Union told me in the past.

I have to pay my teacher a month in advance each month and see no problem with it. I don't know why you lot even consider payment week-to-week....

Would you let a plumber into your house to do work then offer to pay him next week? Would the plumber be OK with it?

I think most people here get monthly or even termly advance-payments, but that doesn't solve the late payment issue - it doesn't matter if the payment is brought in late for 1, 4 or 12 lessons. If someone has to pay £100 for a month's worth of lessons on the first of the month and doesn't do it, the payment is late. The weekly late payment fee that lorraine talked about was certainly meant as "£5 for every further week the payment hasn't arrived", not to accept payment on a weekly basis.

As I said however: If they forget it once, second chance. If they forget it the next time again: No tuition until the balance is paid, end of.

That will teach me not to post when extremely tired!

Now I'm more awake...

I think a financial penalty is a bit harsh - doesn't witholding further tuition until payment work?

Also, speaking directly to people in person or on the phone is always going to spur them into action more than a text or email will (it's quite embarassing to be chased for payment in this manner).

It does, but often it is the innocent party who is penalised this way. I don't much like punishing the child for the misdemeanours of its parents.

Actually no, we don't give credit - husband is a plumber - we expect to get paid at the end of the job. But then he is a sole trader and it'e easier to manage. Those that have employees, and even some that don't, issue invoices and have to wait until the customer pays. This could be up to a month or even more and may need to be chased. So you see, it's not really any different - teachers issue invoices and wait for them to be paid and complain when they are not paid on time (and rightly so). But that's the way of the world - I'm one of those "lot" who take payment week-to-week, and I am never owed any money, I get paid for late or non-urgent cancellations and take my holidays when I like. I know which I prefer!
And actually, no-one like to pay for things they haven't had yet, excepts perhaps a deposit. So my students are happy because they've paid for services rendered - people like to have something to show for their financial outlay - it's a different mindset and human nature.

I was checking my accounts yesterday and find that there is at present £240.50 in other people's accounts which should be in mine. Up to this year I have only rarely had a problem with payment (I charge 5 lessons in advance), but I have noticed lately that I am getting more odd lessons cancelled, often for the week that payment is due, and having missed the lesson they then "forget" the next week that it is due. Recently a very long-standing pupil left. He was due for his lesson, but didn't turn up, so I contacted his mother, who said that he had to go to homework club and the lady who brought him to his lesson was supposed to have rung me (I didn't believe that one - she's been used as an excuse before). I wrote a letter on 6 February saying that as he was obviously now committed to homework club at that time he wouldn't be coming to piano lessons and as a concession to him having been with me so long I wouldn't charge for the missed lesson, but I did require payment for the week before. On 26 February I sent a reminder letter, enclosing a stamped addressed envelope for her to put the cheque in, but nothing has come back. This has really annoyed me as I have done a lot for this boy, who is very slow and has special needs. Mum has always been a bit flaky with payments, but I have always got it in the end. It doesn't look as if I am going to get this one. My music teaching income this year is very considerably down on last year at the same time, and whilst I have had new pupils I think that many people are reluctant to take on music lessons because of the cost.

Fairy nuff However, I don't mind paying up front. Technically I don't *have* to pay up front but I do anyway as I'm so disorganised and hate the inconvenience of going to the cashpoint before each lesson There's an element of trust in that I don't think my teacher is going to suddenly leave the country with the cash! It's not really the same as dealing with an unfamiliar organisation?

Anyways... off topic.. sorry!

I'm sorry to hear your teaching income is down Suepea, but I honestly think you've hit the nail on the head. Music lessons ARE expensive. I know that I am in the minority on here accepting weekly payments, but I know that my own parents could not have afforded to pay up front for mine, and I know how I struggled to pay up front for my own childrens'. The bulk payment invariably came at the same time as a gas bill or car repair bill, unbudgeted for.
Some of my own students have said that they can manage to pay weekly but would not be able to pay in advance. What's the difference - it's the same cost? But it doesn't work like that. If the music invoice is due at the same time as a household bill - boiler repair, or whatever - if a choice has to be made then the other takes priority. But they might be able to manage a weekly lesson fee. Not all students/parents can write a cheque out without thinking about it - especially for a large amount. This is why I will never go over to advance payments. I honestly believe I have more students because of this method of payment than I would otherwise.

For a while now I've been ok with payments received, because about 6 months ago I adopted a policy of giving either a parent, or the child pupil, the bill as they walked out of the door. So it was in their hand to give to parent straight away, rather than getting buried in the music bag.

Last week, I had a pupil (teenage, reliable - so I thought) whose Mum hadn't paid. So I asked if Mum had sent a cheque. "No, mum did ask, but you didn't give me a bill". Well, I had to do a double take, and checked on my paperwork - fortunately there and then, beside the piano. "Yes, yes" said I "here's my copy". Teenager looks perplexed. Searches in bag and happily there was my bill - still in pristine condition. She grovelled suitably, but then said she'd bring the cheque next week. (No sense of urgency some folk - it should have been here before half term.)

Fairy nuff too Actually I have a couple of students who pay in advance by choice - one by the month - they like to get it out of the way, and one parent whose offspring boards at a local school and pays me half-termly. - Home is hundreds of miles away. This is the only student that gets out of attending in school holidays!! (And the only student whose payment arrives late - I rest my case )
Eveyone is different and I am happy to go with the flow.

sad, but i think that's just the risk of being self-employed. we can only do so much, and we have to live with the rest.

i can only speak for myself, but i definitely had more problems when i was more lenient and softer on the payment issue, so getting tougher really helped. i still don't like it, but i need to pay my bills on time like everyone else. working from home doesn't mean it's a hobby or a bit of pin-money. the sooner the people get this, the better.

as for the advance-payment: i fully understand that this can be a lot for some people, that's why i basically offer 3 payment options: termly, monthly, weekly. the latter one doesn't get a discount, the others do. if someone struggles to pay in advance, they are welcome to pay weekly. i currently only have two people who do this: one person who is a professional singer and only needs occasional supervision, and one family who otherwise couldn't afford it. all others picked the advance payment because it is cheaper - see it as a prompt pay discount, common practice.

i sometimes still wonder if i should offer this discount though...

p.s.: i currently have to hand over another case to my union representative. i hate to do this, but the person owes me a 3-figure sum, and if people don't understand it the nice way, that's sadly what i have to do to protect my income, like every other company.

goodness me, i am so pleased it is not just me with this problem!

Until recently (december 2009) i was chasing payments upto 5 weeks late but then decided enough was enough and devised a formula which now goes on to any late payments invoices: no payment = no lessons. which seems to have helped. Its harsh and ive had to be strict but like everyone we have to budget. Two of my students have lone parents and paying weekly works well for them as it fits in with their budget and couldnt afford for pay for lessons in advance, per half term.

oops, that quote didn't work the first way round


Sounds reasonable, well done. We really need to protect ourselves. I always find that I am my own worst enemy and have to force myself not to go all soft *sigh* Getting better at it though...

I've just been paid this week for January and February's lessons for one pupil, having given both invoices to the pupil on the first lesson of each month, with "due by" the following week's date........ then I got an email saying that I hadn't received a cheque as they hadn't received an invoice for those 2 months, so I'm not sure quite what daughter is doing with them.... but on production of the cheque this week (finally!!) I then sent home March's invoice (and March is a longer month......!) for payment next week. It will be interesting to see if the cheque arrives next week or not..... This family is the only one that never pays by the due by date on the invoice - everyone else does...... it's beginning to get a bit annoying, TBH but I know them socially outside of lessons, so it's a bit awkward chasing up......

Whilst generally I have a lesson every third week, I am presently having them fortnightly to fit in with preparing for performance practice invetween. In the run-up to my exam last year I increased the frequency to weekly.

I email my teacher no later than the previous weekend, to see that he is available (and not adjudicating somewhere, away presenting a masterclass etc). I pay him by cheque, there and then, at the end of my lesson. He doesn't insist on this, but it saves having to keep track of any changes and ensures that we're always up to date.

I charge monthly in advance because I was getting fed up with people cancelling lessons at the last minute and me not getting paid. I don't think any of my other students find this is a problem as it is like any of their other monthly bills, and I also think that it helps having the same monthly payment to budget for each month. My payments are usually less than students would pay if they were having a lesson every week during that month, simply because I split the invoice for 10 lessons equally over 3 months. I like working this way as it's as though I have a monthly salary and it's much easier to project income. However I do still get issues with late payments from at least two of my students, who are also the ones most likely to cancel still. I don't charge a fee for people who pay late, and at the moment don't stop lessons.

However I'm planning to move to a new area but to continue teaching my students I currently have. This will probably mean I need to change my system as due to it being a fairly long journey I may not be able to be as available as I am now - meaning if one week only one student plans to come there's not much point in me travelling over. But as I would still want my income secure I would probably have to work on a monthly basis and get students to book in for the month and invoice on that basis. This will mean the monthly payments will increase for some students but not by huge amounts. I would then carry on my current system with students I acquire in the area I move to.

Lucid

This is one reason I insist on payment for every lesson, handed over each week. Some people pay in blocks because it is more convenient for them, but this is done upfront. Amazingly I have never not been paid, but if hypothetically it did happen I would do similar to another poster said in that I would not teach the next week unless they brought money for the previous lesson. If this continues, they are fired.

Missing lessons is one thing, but not being paid for services given is quite unacceptable, and I think late fees are quite reasonable as well. When time comes I am teaching for my livliehood (which I don't atm) I will tighten up on such things, though I suppose if people want to mess you about they will, T&Cs or not.

This is why I ask for payment a half term in advance. Psychlogically the attitude seems to be that if they haven't paid for it, it's OK to cancel. Ballet lessons, swimming etc have to be paid for in advance - and they don't get credited with any missed lessons. With my own lessons, my cello teacher invoices half a term in arrears. I know that she has lost out on more than one occasion when a pupil has left owing money and she has never recouped it. I pay my piano teacher on the day as this is how he prefers it. Neither of these are weekly lessons, though.

If you prefer not to turn them away, what about putting Paypal on your web site and immediately after the lesson*, send them an email giving them the link to the web site page asking them to pay by Paypal. I know there's a small fee for the Paypal service, but it might be worth it to get the money, and it would also save time going to the bank to present the cheque.


* or use up some of their lesson time sending the email which might make the message even clearer.

.... with a comment that we shall just have to lose a few minutes while I do an email.