Hi folks. Has anyone any suggestions about how to handle the really awkward page turns in the Bach Sinfonia (Grade 8 A:5)?

I've trawled through the various forums and have got varying bits of advice, some of which seem to conflict, so,

1. can I request to bring a page turner when I apply to sit the exam? The FAQs are not totally clear on this.
2. could I bring in two copies of the piece, and have both open on the piano at different pages (the exam piano is a grand with a long music stand), thus avoiding the second, totally impossible, turn?

Any other help anyone can suggest? With both hands going flat out, there is almost no place to logically break.

Thanks for any help!!!

Nice to hear of someone else choosing to play this piece; I love it and chose it for my Grade 8 exam last year.

I took an A3 photocopy of the first double page, a copy of the last double page, glueing each to a separate piece of card - two manila files actually (single pieces of card folded in the middle).

I placed them either side of the open middle double page of my original Peters copy, tucking-in the card overlap each side. The manila files naturally folded in a little bit at the far left and right, but it was essentially six pages open from left to right on the music stand of the piano - card, Peters, card.

I prefer not to have page-turners, didn't fancy trying to memorise the piece and as you say, couldn't find any manageable place to turn pages myself. This solution worked for me.

At no time was I questioned about this arrangement. I did the same for my Beethoven Op.14 but it was easy to turn the page for the Rachmaninov.

Apart from the Bach, what else have you chosen for the exam?

Are you using the Grade 8 anthology? I've copied pages 4 and 5, stuck the copies together leaving about 1 cm unstuck down the LHS of page 4, and used Blu Tack to attach LHS of P 4 to RHS of P 3 and RHS of P 5 to LHS of P 6 (which leaves Ps 4 and 5 trapped in between). This does mean that the copied pages are permanently stuck out of the book, but it reduces the page turns to just one on the very easiest place (bottom of page 4 - three rest bars in the left hand) and makes the whole piece very manageable without a page turner.

My method means just 3 pages on view at once. It's surprisingly easy to turn over the large combined page 3/4 provided you don't trap it with the holder on the stand. I've actually memorised the right hand part at the turnover so that I can give full attention to the turn! But it's a very easy bit to learn.

So glad you're doing this piece - I love it! I wish I could get the fugue a bit faster though. I can manage crotchet = 144 at home, but it's not secure enough to play at that speed in the exam.

You should photocopy the pages and stick them together. However, you'd have to ask ABRSM first. Or, if for some reason you don't want to do that, then you can fold the corner of each page turn and if there's a really awkward one, then you should memorise the next few bars and turn at a suitable place.

Hope this helps!

Allygirl

No need to ask for special permission if it is for a page turn - that is specifically ALLOWED under the overall 'no photocopying' rules.

Hi Berkshire Mum, Clavicembalo. Thanks for these great suggestions. I am going to try both and see which works better! - I think I prefer the idea of 3 pages on view at once - less chance of something falling off the piano!

No decision on a second piece as yet, but a toss up between the Chopin and the Gershwin for the third. Such a wonderful selection - hard to chose!!!

Thanks again to everyone for your advice!

I liked the look of the Chopin too, but considered that I might struggle to do it justice. The Rach' felt nice and solid and I just loved the big chords - not really an option for those with small hands though, yet saying that, Ashkenazy always managed to negotiate everything!

Hi Berkshire Mum - I didn't reply to your question about speed. 144???? That is REALLY punishing. I haven't managed faster than 112. Far better to play slower and accurately and have a sense of shape and contrast than going ###### for leather - add nerves and its a recipe for disaster I think!!! Good luck!

I am doing this piece too - I think I will do something similar to clavicembalo with the page turns, unless I play from memory.
It's such an awesome piece though isn't it? I love the French Overture in the Grave.

I'm tossing up between the Mozart 332 and the Beethoven op.14 for B and the Brahms Intermezzo and the Liszt consolation for C.

Ooh but the Gershwin! I might have a look at that too...will have to order the music.

Good luck for your Exam

Page turner is allowed for a graded exam, but this is a special request that you must mention on your exam entry form. (This is what my exam representative told me.)

Of course it is fine to place two copies of the piece on the piano, if you are talking about two copies of the score.

If you are thinking of photocopies, perhaps you can simply photocopy the page that is difficult to turn. The Board is OK with a photocopied page or two for page-turning purposes.

If you want to photocopy the whole Sinfonia, it may be best to obtain the publisher's written permission first. Bring the permission, the photocopy and the score with you to the exam.

Well, I've listened to various people playing on YouTube, and they all play the fugue faster than I do! What speed do you play the Andante at? I do crotchet=92, and the fugue needs to be noticeably faster. If I took the exam tomorrow, I'd play the fugue at around 126 for safety.

Clavicembalo, how fast did you take this piece?

Well, it never occurred to me to look at YouTube, so I took it at the tempo I've always played it and my teacher never once suggested going faster or slower.

I took the Andante at between quaver = 88-92 (I don't think you mean crotchet, do you?) and going to the keyboard earlier today I think I took the fugue at between crotchet = 116 - 120 or so. I don't know what I played in the exam but wouldn't be surprised if I had played it a tad faster; I certainly practised it up to around 126 but certainly not faster - I wonder it doesn't lose a degree of musicality played any faster than that.

It was the first piece of the three that I played in the exam and I was awarded 26/30, despite my nerves still being very much in evidence that early on. The advantage of having tackled it before I even thought of embarking on an exam was countered by having to undo a few bad habits that had rather ingrained themselves on my muscle-memory over the years. I was glad to emerge somewhat unscathed!

Thanks, clavicembalo - that's very reassuring. I think I'll just stick with the speeds I'm playing at then; it's hard enough to get the musicality in as it is. You're quite right about the Andante - I did mean quaver!

The trouble is, I fear that if I did the exam the nerves would kick in and the whole lot would drop to pieces anyway. I like to kid myself that I might do the exam, as it's a spur to improvement, but I'm beginning to know in my heart of hearts that the time isn't right yet. Still, it's fun to play the 2009/10 pieces even if no examiner will ever listen to them, and maybe once I retire in a few years time I will have a chance to prepare all the scales and aural, and really go for it.

Good luck to Jane and pianoeater for your grade 8s; don't forget to let us know how the exams go. Are you both taking it in the summer session?

I had spent a couple of decades accompanying school children who were, on paper, more highly-qualified than I was and many rather enjoyed the irony. In the back of my mind it was something that I wish I had accomplished and when my own piano lessons started and I noticed that the pieces I was working on were on the Diploma syllabus, it provided the impetus to try for it.

A degree of respectability in scales/arpeggios was the bottom line for me, otherwise I wouldn't have entered, but my determination to get to grips with these was really the deciding factor.

When I asked my teacher what he thought about trying for the DipABRSM, he said that preparation for Grade 8 had definitely raised my game. So now I am in a similar position; I'd like to be able to accomplish that next step, yet the journey is likely to be more profitable for my development than anything else. Even now I have doubts, four months out, but essentially there's nothing riding on the result; were I to fail, I would undoubtedly feel deflated but it would never put me off continuing to love playing.

Fortunately, my links with school provide me with the opportunity to try out my pieces on unsuspecting folk, valuable performance practice without which I wouldn't know how I might perform under exam conditions. Many forumites enter for festivals and competitions probably because this is the only way they have of recreating that pressure. I chickened out of entering this year's Festival on my home ground but I have already performed parts of my Dip' programme recently at concerts in school, providing me with evidence that to a degree, I will be able to cope, come July.

I think you're so brave to try the DipABRSM. I know I couldn't sustain concentration for 35 minutes of playing, so wouldn't even consider it. I hope you really enjoy the experience whatever the outcome. You'll get a superb piano on the day, which should give you a lot of pleasure. I hope you'll tell us all about your progress as you head towards the big day in July.

There's a performance of the complete Partita in today's Radio 3 Lunchtime Concert at 1.00 pm, admittedly on the harpsichord by Mahan Esfahani, but at the very least you'd get another take on tempi in the first movement.

EDIT: I didn't have a metronome handy at the time but he very much seemed to play the fugue somewhere between crotchet = 120 and 126.

If you say so, clavicembalo - I thought it was quite a bit faster than that. Certainly faster than I take it, but I sometimes think my metronome isn't too reliable at faster speeds.

Thanks for posting about the concert; I'd have missed it otherwise. I didn't really like his interpretation of the Grave, but the rest was OK. It does sound different on the harpsichord.

The fugue was nifty but no overly so. I'll check it with a metronome when it's made available on iplayer - I'm intrigued now! I thought it was pretty much at the tempo I played it, hence my 126 upper limit.

I too didn't care for his Grave; he pulled around the double-dotting and suffered the odd pregnant pause, although the harpsichord does require a slightly different approach, especially when dynamics are limited.

I do wonder whether I'd choose the whole Partita, if I ever got to sit the LRSM. The final movement Capriccio is tough, possibly more so on the piano, picking out themes for consideration of dynamics! Manage that movement and the whole Partita would be a possibility.

I mustn't run though, before I can walk!

I have, just this minute listened to the repeat on Radio 3 and, armed with my metronome, he played it at crotchet = 120.

Initially I set it for 126 but then found that I needed to reduce it by a notch. Yes, 120 it was!

So, you don't have to go haring off at warp-speed after all, for a musical performance.

Good luck, BerkshireMum!

Going back to the original question (sorry - I joined this thread late!) - why can't you just memorise it? I played this piece for a competition last year and really didn't find it a challenge to memorise, but noticed that no-one had suggested this?!