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Full Version: Why Hasn't Someone Invented An Ergonomic Pianokeyboard For The Mas
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Equinox
I've got an ergonomic keyboard for my PCs at work and home, so when are we going to get one for musicians?
Mad Tom
Actually, the piano keyboard works rather well. I used to think some of the alternatives that have been explored over the last 150 years made sense, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that he current design is rather good, and well suits the human hand. As for each key requiring different shapes of chord and patterns for scales - that is an advantage.
Arundodonuts
QUOTE(Equinox @ Mar 16 2010, 12:18 AM) *

I've got an ergonomic keyboard for my PCs at work and home, so when are we going to get one for musicians?

Are they actually any good? In my experience of IT support over many years, they are no better than a standard keyboard providing you hold you hands and wrists properly (i.e elevated not sagging). Don't get me started on so called ergonomic mice.
lostchord
Why would we want one. The existing layout seems fine to me, and on a piano surely form follows function. Or am I missing something??
kenm
The power to excite piano strings comes from the fingers, and this constrains the design. Where the keys open valves, as on the accordian, or close switches, as on a computer keyboard, alternative designs and layouts exist (e.g. chromatic accordians and the Dvorak keyboard) and work well.
Arundodonuts
QUOTE(kenm @ Mar 16 2010, 10:00 AM) *

....alternative designs and layouts exist (e.g. chromatic accordians......

Ah now you're talking. A truly logical design. Probably the best of any instrument. I don't play one though (too musch like hard work - I'll stick to my little push pull box).
Solari
QUOTE(pushpull @ Mar 16 2010, 08:36 AM) *

Are they actually any good? In my experience of IT support over many years, they are no better than a standard keyboard providing you hold you hands and wrists properly (i.e elevated not sagging). Don't get me started on so called ergonomic mice.


The MS ones, not really. I quite like my Logitech G-15 and won't go back to an MS Natural one.

One guy at work uses one of these:

IPB Image

wacko.gif
Arundodonuts
QUOTE(Solari @ Mar 16 2010, 11:58 AM) *

QUOTE(pushpull @ Mar 16 2010, 08:36 AM) *

Are they actually any good? In my experience of IT support over many years, they are no better than a standard keyboard providing you hold you hands and wrists properly (i.e elevated not sagging). Don't get me started on so called ergonomic mice.


The MS ones, not really. I quite like my Logitech G-15 and won't go back to an MS Natural one.

One guy at work uses one of these:

IPB Image

wacko.gif

And the advantage of that (other than profit margin) is what?
river
QUOTE(pushpull @ Mar 16 2010, 12:00 PM) *
And the advantage of that (other than profit margin) is what?


I know someone who uses a keyboard like that (but a different make). He finds it much nicer to type on, since the keys are where your fingers fall naturally. I don't use one, mostly because I don't want to spend £250 on a keyboard without trying it first, but I do use the Dvorak layout on my keyboard. Compared to QWERTY, it feels much nicer -- the layout makes keys that you often use together either next to each other on the keyboard, or on opposite sides so you can type them with alternating hands. The result is that it's much easier to type on, and there's less 'finger twisting' to find the right letters.

As to whether that could work for a piano keyboard... well, while I haven't tried it, the chromatic button accordion layout seems a lot more sensible than the piano keyboard, since like Dvorak, it puts keys you often use together, and it also lets you transpose between keys while retaining the same fingering. (Both for melody and chords.) But, as kenm says, using that for piano hammers may be difficult.
Czerny
QUOTE(Solari @ Mar 16 2010, 11:58 AM) *

The MS ones, not really. I quite like my Logitech G-15 and won't go back to an MS Natural one.

One guy at work uses one of these:

IPB Image

wacko.gif

Yikes! Who designed that - Salvador Dali??
clavicembalo
QUOTE(Czerny @ Mar 16 2010, 12:25 PM) *

QUOTE(Solari @ Mar 16 2010, 11:58 AM) *

QUOTE(pushpull @ Mar 16 2010, 08:36 AM) *

Are they actually any good? In my experience of IT support over many years, they are no better than a standard keyboard providing you hold you hands and wrists properly (i.e elevated not sagging). Don't get me started on so called ergonomic mice.


The MS ones, not really. I quite like my Logitech G-15 and won't go back to an MS Natural one.

One guy at work uses one of these:

IPB Image

wacko.gif

Yikes! Who designed that - Salvador Dali??


You're right, it does have that sense of flow/melting!

Given the number of 'musical' cakes that seem to appear on the Forum, I'm sure a chocolate sponge dotted with marshmallows wouldn't be too much to hope for!
Solari
QUOTE(pushpull @ Mar 16 2010, 12:00 PM) *

And the advantage of that (other than profit margin) is what?


As mentioned above, your fngers hardly have to move to press the keys. I've had a go on one and it felt a bit odd to say the least, although I guess you could get used to it.

I quite like having the Enter at your little finger on both sides, though smile.gif

I'll stick to a decent conventional keyboard and a nice wrist rest smile.gif
river
QUOTE(Solari @ Mar 16 2010, 01:27 PM) *
I'll stick to a decent conventional keyboard and a nice wrist rest smile.gif


I stopped using a wrist rest a while ago -- I found it was very tempting to rest on it while typing, which encourages a rather poor posture.
Solari
QUOTE(river @ Mar 16 2010, 01:33 PM) *

I stopped using a wrist rest a while ago -- I found it was very tempting to rest on it while typing, which encourages a rather poor posture.


Isn't that why they are called wrist rests? tongue.gif I thought the idea was that it stops your hands from being at an awkward angle, saying that, I only rest my wrists or palms on it when I'm not actually typing anything biggrin.gif
Arundodonuts
QUOTE(Solari @ Mar 16 2010, 02:00 PM) *

QUOTE(river @ Mar 16 2010, 01:33 PM) *

I stopped using a wrist rest a while ago -- I found it was very tempting to rest on it while typing, which encourages a rather poor posture.


Isn't that why they are called wrist rests? tongue.gif I thought the idea was that it stops your hands from being at an awkward angle, saying that, I only rest my wrists or palms on it when I'm not actually typing anything biggrin.gif

I agree with river. The rest actually encourages you into sloppy habits. The best way to avoid injury is not to rest your wrists on anything (desk or wrist rest). Keep them elevated like typists always used to do (or presumably how you play piano). Same goes for your hand on the mouse, keep the wrist high with the fingers hanging down.
river
QUOTE(pushpull @ Mar 16 2010, 02:51 PM) *
The best way to avoid injury is not to rest your wrists on anything (desk or wrist rest).


Exactly. The idea of the wrist rest is that when you're not typing, it prevents your hands from sagging down onto the desk and bending the wrists upwards. If your wrist is touching the rest when you're typing, you need to hold your wrists higher.
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