Interested to know how you all go about learning a new piece.

I've just started a new piece and am finding it very hard going despite it not being too difficult. Am also really struggling with my Grade 4 list A piece

I think the problem is that everything I've learnt so far has been relatively easy for me to muddle through from day 1 but now I'm advancing a bit I've realised that I don't know how to go about really learning to play a piece properly if that makes any sense at all

Lois

This is quite common, especially for people with a natural sense of rhythm and beat. In my experience the difficulties start to occur where people haven't had to concentrate too hard on counting before and where the finger patterns become more complex you have to take more time in the beginning to get it right rather than playing over it at speed.

The way to do it, is to pick a speed at which you will not make a mistake (this may seem painfully slow to start with) and while you are doing this make absolutely sure your beat is steady. Then take no more than a phrase or 2 at a time. Do this several times, you will then be able to increase the speed of the section without too much trouble. Then move onto the next bit, then put the two bits together.

I used to have a really sensible approach of learning 2 bars at a time, but as my reading has improved, I've been inclined to just bash through the whole piece.

It's only recently that I've realised this is an extremely bad idea so I'm trying to go back to getting 3 bars at a time secure (starting as slowly as required to not make mistakes), and ensuring that I work through to resolution on the sections that give me trouble - with metronome if necessary, rather than muddling through them, as you say...

One thing I also started doing was that I stopped looking at my fingers so much, but I've discovered that this makes memorising anything extremely difficult. If you're memorising something, IMO, you need to remove the music, go through the passages a few bars at a time, watch your hands and try to consciously feel what your hands and fingers are doing to get the movements securely into mechanical memory....

I also found that removing the music in difficult passages and watching your hands helps too (especially with large jumps).

Finally, I make sure that I write down as many fingerings as are needed, going through the piece HS. With more tricky pieces I definitely think that fingerings need to be set in stone, as getting this wrong causes a snowball effect.

That's just my 2p anyway.

Hi, I am only a beginner, so my advice may or may not help. I would imagine that we all have different ways of learning but not only that I know for a fact that each piece I learn may have to be tackled in a different way or many different ways during the learning process.

If I know it is going to be a tricky piece, I will look at the score before attempting to learn it. I would look for repeated sections, label chords, highlight tricky pieces etc, look at any parts that have tricky rhythms etc. Then I generally do each hand separately until it is learnt to a reasonable level, before attempting hands together.

I always find my most trickiest part is where the piece is nearly fluent, but to get it to the point where it is really fluent takes me time. At that point I isolate the bars that I stumble on consistently and practice those. I have a fold out A4 book by Hal Leonard publishing that gives tips on how to practice effectively. It has taken me a while to understand that repeating a tricky section again and again doesn't always work and that other un obvious methods need to be adopted. I cannot really elaborate but I am sure other more experienced forumites can. But for an example I may practice a broken chord or an alberti bass as a block chord in order to help memorise the notes, or with technical issues may do related excercises (set by my teacher) to help overcome that difficulty, personally I wouldn't have a clue!


Good luck

Get a copy of "Improve Your Piano Playing" by John Meffen (currently available for less than a fiver on Amazon) and read the chapter on "Learning a New Piece"

Oy, so now I'm curious. Could you not at least give us a summary (please please)?

What I usually do when starting a new piece is
- study the score away from piano and note down anything that comes to mind (e.g. note names for those with 6 ledger lines, italian words I need to look up, scary runs which at closer look are just scales in disguise, identify different voices, etc)
- sightread through the piece and see what I can already do
- come up with sensible fingering (sometimes a couple of alternatives) - I usually ignore what's already on the page
- think how I actually should "practise" the bits I can't play
- start learning the difficult bits/bars first (I don't go about the piece bar by bar)
- note down any questions to ask teacher at next lesson

Solari - I was interested in what you wrote; it really rang a bell. When I was learning back in the 80s I looked at my hands the whole time and, I think as a result, was a really cr** sight reader - and also came unstuck when I "lost the thread" because I couldn't then find my place on the page and had horrible rabbit-in-the-headlights experiences.

When I started playing again 2 years ago, I made a conscious decision to look at my hands as little as possible. I think on balance this gives me better results but ...

For some fast / tricky passages (eg. les Pifferari [Grade 3 alternative piece] upwards scale passage) my teacher recommends learning by heart. Leaving aside the fact that I find that VERY difficult, where do I look? I couldn't take the book way - much too scary - but if it's there, it's difficult to avoid looking at it. And if I look at my hands, same old problem of not being able to find my place on the page...?

PatC

I find that when I have passages where I need to do this I learn where my eyes need to go to when I look back at the page.
I've never been one to look down much but when I do need to look I can usually return to the right place easily.

What I'm finding a bit tricky right now is that I have half a piece in my memory (sometimes it just happens- memorising is not a regular thing) but when it comes to my lesson I somehow don't trust myself. The problem is that as I'm playing from memory most of the time looking at the music is really not very helpful.
I've also recently changed teacher and my new teacher has a salon grand which means that the music is higher than on my upright so I have to make that adjustment too. Mostly finding the change ok though.

I don't look at my hands very much when playing, only if I'm changing position and not always then (although this might change when I get more advanced). I don't think this is necessarily a good thing though - I've read that watching your hand position is one of the aids to making the piece more secure. I've never consciously tried to memorise piano music, but sometimes I find I can play a piece from memory, in which case I "watch" my hands in my mind. Once a piece is reasonably secure, I think I just keep an eye on "signposts" in the score (eg a bar where there's an accidental) so that I know where I am.

Once you have something firmly committed to muscle memory, you shouldn't need to look at your hands anyway, it's only useful to look while absorbing the passage into muscle memory Hence the problem of losing your place is gone

OK - tonight when the practice rooms close !

I read this chapter on the train this morning... all I can say is... Ooops! I'm guilty of doing pretty much all the bad stuff he mentions. Some opinions are at odds with what my teacher says though..

Thanks for all the advice.

I'll look out for a copy of that book MT mentioned. My Mom will no doubt have a copy somewhere.

I started on the bar by bar approach last night and got on quite well although it's frustratingly slow!

Lois

Okay. As promised, here is brief summary of how Meffen says you should set about learning a new piece. If you want more detail, or the reasons behind his advice then you'll have to find a copy of the book.

PRELIMINARIES
1.Read through the piece a few times away from the keyboard before attempting to play it. Get a mental image of how it should sound. So far as you are able note keys, transpositions, structure, shape of melodies, texture, dynamics etc. etc.
2. Divide the piece up into manageable chunks to work on. Mark the divisions (his term) in the score. Err on making them too short rather than too long
3. Resist the temptation to try the piece through a few times before you start serious work

WORK AT THE KEYBOARD
1. Pick a division to work on (not necessarily the first one)
2. Work out fingerings. Start with the suggested fingerings (if any) but be ready to modify them to better suit your hands
3. Practice a small part of the division that you have chosen so slowly that there is no problem with with timing or rhythm and aim to play with complete accuracy. If necessary just work on a very short fragment - as short as necessary to play it absolutely correctly
4. Play hands together so far as possible
5. But if there is a particular difficulty overcome it with some separate hands practice, then re-integrate
6. Take frequent breaks - this is intense work. For relief you could intersperse the work with run-throughs of pieces that you already know.
7. Continue learning short fragments in this way until you can play the whole of the division you have chosen to work on. You should eventually be able to play it without hesitations or inaccuracies. There should be no doubt at any point about what comes next
8. It helps if you manage to commit it to memory while you are doing this work, but in any case concentrate on the pattern of actual notes rather than on the printed score
9. When you have it correct you will need to repeat the division many times, slowly until it feels quite safe, but maintain concentration and do not allow yourself to play automatically.
10. Choose another division and master it in the same way.
11. Continue in this way until the whole piece has been learned [Not necessarily in a single practice session!]

WHAT NOT TO DO
1. Immediately dive into playing the whole piece at the keyboard
2. Keep running through the whole piece at speed (replete with mistakes) in the hope that it will eventually be mastered
3. Start at the beginning every time you work on it

This is a summary of the key 4 pages, supplemented with a few bits from elsewhere in the chapter. However there are another 35 pages in the chapter, and they are packed with useful advice on specific technical and musical problems. It is probably the most useful chapter of the book.

Mad Tom - I wonder if you could amplify on the point "... but in any case concentrate on the pattern of actual notes rather than on the printed score"?

I do have the book btw, but I think this somehow touches on a problem I have, in that I tend not to think about what note I am actually playing, but instead I think to myself - up a fifth, down a third - etc. So if you asked me what note I had just played, I probably wouldn't know (unless it was one of my few "instantaneous recognition" points like F sharp, for some odd reason; I would either have to look at the score, or picture the keyboard and think what that note was. I also don't think in terms of the scale - eg that's the dominant, which probably accounts for inaccuracies in sight-reading. How do I start to deal with this problem? I'm about grade 2 / 3 level.

PatC

After reading your post Mad Tom I thought I would have a little browse on said website...and put my order in for that and something else too. Just looked on my bookshelf and what do I find....the very same book. Must be losing my marbles!!

It's Friday night Mrs B. and time for a glass of red.

Pat - Have you thought about learning the tricky piece by looking at your fingers and then once very secure learn to look back at the score so the passage is committed to finger memory but without the need to look down?

Please don't shoot me down in flames forumites if this is a bad idea!!