Hello forum people, I'm afraid it's me, the bringer of gloom again.

I'm not asking for medical advice before anyone starts to think that.

Basically I have a condition which has many symptoms, but the one which really upsets me is that it causes incredible (I mean it brings tears to my eyes multiple times a day, and I can tolerate a lot usually...) pain in my wrists, particularly my left wrist.

Being a violinist, it's quite soul-destroying. I have ibuprofen gel to put on when it's bad, and I use a wrist support and hot/cold compresses when I can. Nothing really works, hence trying it all. Of course, all of this is on my doctor's recommendation because I don't want to cause any more harm, naturally.

I just wondered if anyone had any other ideas/thoughts? I don't want to stop playing, but at the moment 5 minutes playing equates to my wrist being rendered totally useless for the next day. I've seriously cut down on how much typing I do - which made me feel really quite embarassed, asking for a scribe for my exams... - and don't carry anything heavy any more.

I feel quite 'disabled' enough without losing my music too... I know there's always singing, and theory, but the violin has always been my passion. I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance from some nice people...

Hijack it all you want, David... It's important to know that we're not alone in these things.

I'm sorry to hear of what you're going through too, and it's all relative so don't say you can't compare it.

Maybe try acupuncture? I had nerve problems in one of my wrists, couldn't cope with being in a car because of vibration, on a bad day even walking across the room was agony from the jarring of my footsteps. Tried acupuncture out of desperation (quite modern, with little electric currents) and it's basically fixed. Certainly worth a try if you can get a local recommendation!

I'm afraid I don't have any useful suggestions, but just wanted to say how sorry I am for you both. It must be so difficult trying to carry on with your lives when you're in so much pain, and very frustrating being unable to play your instruments properly. I hope things improve for you both very soon.

Are you saying that your doctor doesn't know the cause of your pain, Celeste? If that is the case, perhaps he might refer you to a specialist who can help to get at the root of it and perhaps treat it more effectively?

I really do sympathise, having had my own significant joint / pain problems for the last 18 years, and tried acupuncture, homeopathy, magnotherapy, and Tens alongside conventional medicine. There were times (days, weeks, sometimes months) when I couldn't hope to play, and even now when my condition is treated reasonably well, how much I can play (violin, among other things) is often seriously limited. I had a variety of diagnoses along the way, and all of them incorrect - until I was sent to a specialist.

I do hope you can find a way forward, and hope things start to look brighter soon.

Without knowing the condition that you refer to it is hard to offer any helpful advice. If it is something like Rheumatoid Arthritis I have nothing to offer but sympathy.

On the other hand if it is the sort of chronic pain originally caused by some sort of habitual misuse (rather than a sudden and specific injury) then some advice from personal experience might be useful. At various times I have had a a thumb problem that stopped me from playing piano (with my RH), a shoulder problem that stopped me from swimming, a knee problem that stopped me from playing soccer or running, a back problem that stopped me doing almost anything.

I have found that you have to give the affected joint almost complete rest until it returns to normal, and then cautiously build back up to normal use - preferably after identifying and correcting the bad habit that caused the problem. The complete rest part can be a real trial when it prevents you from doing something that means a lot to you, possible for weeks or even months on end.

Is it related to holding the arm out? Would it be easier to play it like a treble viol? (Or even play a treble viol?)

Could you play with the violin in your right hand? (Personally I don't understand why right handed people don't do that anyway as I think the fingering requires more dexterity than the bowing)

Thanks for the replies.

Mad Tom, I have M.E. There doesn't seem to be any reasonable explanation for why it's sore - it just is. I haven't damaged it, I haven't overused it or mistreated it. Maybe doing what you suggest and leaving it alone for a long time might help... only, I've agreed to play in a concert next month.


(As an aside, thank you for all the PMs - I just wanted to say that I'm actually really enjoying life and uni and everything despite all this, but thank you for the concern! )

So sorry to hear about the pain you are both in.
If youhave tried conventional medicine and nothing helps, then maybe something like acupuncture might help. You have to remember that all these "alternative" things are untested and unscientific though. Still, if it helped.........
Big hugs to both of you.
Bev.

Drinking plenty of water is always a good idea, but I wouldn't expect it to help with any serious medical issues.

(For those who aren't away, homeopathic "medicine" is literally nothing but water.)

I wouldn't rule out alternative medicine....even if there's no scientific basis in it (or a very fluffy link...), it can and does improve some people's conditions - by whatever means (be that placebo, a sense of someone "doing something" rather than the medical docs saying "well, there's nothing else we can do" etc)

I had a painful condition that the docs said they couldn't do anything with - that it would either go away on it's own or I'd be inflicted with it forever - they couldn't really say. I went to a Health Kinaesiology practitioner....not because I believed in any of that (I didn't...at all....I'm a scientist!!) but because I worked with his wife and she said it wouldn't hurt to try it.

I went in there skeptical (and told him that) I didn't even go in there with a mind of "this is going to work" - but I let him do what he does (rebalancing the body's energies....I know....sounds like a proper "quack" thing) and after one session, the pain had gone and it never returned. How it worked, I don't know - but it did and that's all that mattered Of course, it could be that, just as the doc said, it went away on its own and the HK was just a coincidence - but from being in agony before walking in there, and leaving pain-free, I can't imagine the same happening in 90 minutes without the intervention.

For things like acupuncture or chiropractic, or kinaesiology, there is at least a way it could work: it involves physically doing something to the body. I haven't tried any of these myself, and I haven't looked in detail at the available scientific research, so rather than saying it won't work (which would be my instinct), I will leave it at that: it could work.

But homeopathy is different. There is no possible way homeopathy could ever work, except via the placebo effect (which I admit is quite powerful). Homeopathy involves taking a substance (which is supposed to be the cause of the affliction), and diluting it in water until there is none left. That doesn't mean "very diluted"; there must be nothing left at the end of the dilution, except for the water you started with. Drinking the water is then supposed to cure your affliction. Anyone who believes that actually helps is either deluded, or extremely desperate and clutching at straws.

I have tried it. I drink water every day.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however I'm currently trying homeopathy and whether it be by the placebo effect or not, it has helped (after 7 years of conventional medicine not really helping). If it's carried out by a qualified professional (and mine is, at an NHS homeopathy hospital) then there's no harm in trying. I've also found acupuncture to be of benefit in the past, and more long lasting than the epidural injections, nerve root blocks etc I've had.

David - have you seen a physiotherapist? Also have you had an MRI scan to confirm if it's spinal stenosis as you are very young to have it?

Hope you both find something that helps soon

Celeste - Have you tried those sticky heat patches? I use them sometimes on my shoulder and they help. If I know I'm going on a long journey or doing something that involves a lot of streaching then I apply it first.

Hope you both find something that helps, there's nothing worse than pain.

Thanks notmusimum - think I might give those a go.

I'm a bit wary of acupuncture... I've seen it work for animals and people alike so I'm not 'sceptical' per se, but I don't really like the idea of having it done to me.

I wouldn't say kinaesiology was "doing something" in a physical sense - unless you count someone placing their hands over certain parts of your body (over clothes) and "feeling the energy" as doing something...

I'm a scientist through and through - biomedical scientist at that (ie interested in what happens in the body at a cellular and chemical level). I never in a million years thought that any of the alternative therapies could help. I went into the consultation a skeptic (so wasn't expecting it to work, which might then have been a placebo effect) and left it "cured".

He didn't even charge me (funnily enough exchanged a HK session for a piano lesson for his wife - which as a HK session costs £40+ I thought was a good deal )

You have me slightly confused - what you describe sounds more like Reiki or Meridian Healing, not very much like Applied Kinesiology, which is mainly used as a diagnostic tool (if you believe in it or not is another question ). That some AK people use chiropractic methods, cranial therapy or meridian healing further on is another matter.
Kinesiology as such (not Applied Kinesiology!) is very scientific indeed and has nothing to do with quackery - they are two completely different things. Kinesiology has a lot to do with ergonomics and proper movement etc, so I would say that doesn't sound very much like what you experienced. Alexander Technique ad Feldenkrais are quite firmly rooted in kinesthetic principles.

One of my former singing teachers also had a diploma in complementary therapies, so I got in touch with quite a few of those. I am quite open, but some of it didn't make sense to me and also didn't work (maybe because of this very fact), although I have to admit that the placebo effect alone, and also getting in a state of relaxation, sometimes works wonders.

Acupuncture however is a different thing again, and I firmly believe in it. Even the WHO recognizes it, although of course you will always find critics who say that studies were not scientifically solid etc.
Either way, a lot of conventional practitioners meanwhile accept and introduce this into their practice as well. It has a quite established part in pain relief already, and gets used a lot with cancer patients, or people with chronic conditions.
I have a very good, anaesthetist friend in Germany, who is probably one of the most level-headed women you can imagine. That didn't stop her to do PD in TCM, and using a lot of acupuncture with her chronic pain patients. She tried to explain the background to me once - al lot about neurohormones, analgesics etc, but quite frankly, that just went right over my head

I tried it myself against chronic back and knee pain, neither of which you need if you have to dance a lot. The alternatives would have been to quit completely, which was out of the question back then, or to constantly fuel myself up with heavy painkillers, which I didn't want because it affected my ability to memorise and stay focussed.
Acupuncture absolutely helped me - placebo or not doesn't matter to me. And it's not painful, Celeste - you just have to be prepared that it causes all sorts of weird physical responses

Especially with chronic pain, I would absolutely recommend it. You have nothing to lose if you try it with a qualified practitioner.

for anyone with chronic pain (ie pain that lasts for more than 6 months) and once you have visited your doctor to rule out anything serious. I would recommend this book. MindBody Prescription by Dr John Sarno.

Read the reviews on amazon.

Also have a look at this website. http://podolsky.everybody.org/rsi/

I had RSI for about a yr and after reading this I'm virtually pain free in about a week

Let me know how you get on, I would be interested to know.

I posted this once before, but it *is* good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

Sympathies to both Celeste and David.

Homeopathy - whether by chance or who knows what - appeared to work for my elder son several years ago. Maybe it was the placebo effect, or coincidence or who knows what - but it improved noticeably.

Massage might help, or manipulation, but it would have to be very gently, I think, so as not to aggravate any inflammation - a good physio would at least be able to advise.

I tried acupuncture for morning sickness once, but gave up after I walked out of the session and threw up Having said that, the actual experience of the acupuncture wasn't at all unpleasant, and it turned out that there was an underlying problem to the sickness, so that had to be sorted first.

I can offer nothing but sympathy, I'm afraid, but I wish you both the best in getting your pains sorted, Celeste and dcmbarton

I think informing people about nonsense fake medicine does help them, by stopping them from wasting time and effort on things that don't work.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough: homeopathic medicine is water. There is nothing in it except water. It's not something else diluted in water. There is nothing left except water. According to the principles of homeopathy, you could take a homeopathic remedy for a headache, pour it into the sea, and then anyone who had a headache could dring seawater and be cured.

Does that sound ridiculous to you? That's because homeopathy is ridiculous, and cannot possibly do anything that water can't do.

People who sell homeopathic medicine are scammers trying to make money by selling water to people who don't know any better. There's a reason the NHS recently decided that homeopathy is nonsense and should not be funded anymore.

I'm not commenting on any other alternative medicines mentioned in this thread, since as I said, I don't know enough about them. But I will comment on homeopathy, because it's worthless, and it's easy to demonstrate that it's worthless. If a single person reads what I write and decides not to buy homeopathic "medicine", then it was worth writing.

It was chance (he would have got better anyway) or placebo effect.

Properly controlled experiments have shown that homeopathy does nothing.


Acupuncture is different. Like Tai-Chi, it works. It does have definite effects, and when you do the one, or are subjected to the other you definitely feel the thing the sensations that are traditionally 'explained' by some mysterious substance labelled 'Chi'. But we can't explain any of it in terms of Western physics/chemistry/biology.

[And the underlying Chinese system of medicine that purports to explain them both, with its theory of four elements, 'chi' flowing in the body, and multiple diagnostic pulses seems like unsubstantiated mumbo-jumbo to anyone with a scientific background.].

Celeste and David, sympathies to you both. I hope you will be able to find some solution very soon because as well as the physical pain of not being able to play your instruments, I do not imagine the mental pain of having to take a rest from them either is any easier. Best wishes.

Huge sympathies to you both.

I certainly would look into 'alternative' treatments, although I share the sceptical views of several other posters with regard to homeopathy.

Acupuncture certainly doesn't hurt and I've had some small benefits from it in the past - also from kinesiology - and (not quite the same, I know) I SWEAR by my wonderful, wonderful osteopath (physiotherapy has never done ANYTHING for me).

David - I have sent you a link about Therapeutic Touch.

Here is another title I would highly recommend if it is muscle damage of any type.

The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook

The author was originally a piano tuner who had muscles problems due to the nature of his work and drew on quite old research which has been mostly ignored. Trigger points are knots that occur at the halfway point in muscles which have been damaged, causing tension and pain. This sets up a vicious cycle if ignored as then more knots form at the half way points between the original ones and the ends of the muscles and it goes on like that, shortening the muscles and increasing the pain. A feature of trigger points is that they very rarely occur at the point where the pain is felt and the book gives useful references on where to find the points according to where you feel the pain, then they are dealt with by self massage, which is obviously a lot cheaper than going to a therapist and means that you don't have to wait for you next appointment and can treat yourself every day for a very short time as recommended. You get at difficult to reach points on the back of your body by using a tennis ball inside a sock, which you dangle over your shoulder and roll against a wall. Sounds crude, and has caused a lot of amusement from my friends, but it works!
A friend recommended this book after I could not move my neck and was in considerable pain - a problem which has recurred over the years and which was resistant to all the usual methods except Alexander Technique, which kept me pain free for about four years. I hadn't been keeping up the Alexander Technique properly, so back came the pain, which was originally caused by computer use. I also had lower back pain which it has cured.

J do hope that you are both able to find a solution of whatever type to your pain. Keep us posted on what you try and what results you get.

I think maybe HK is different from AK?

This is what I had:

http://www.hk4health.co.uk/

I had chiropractic treatment on and off for many years. Amongst other things it was good for unwinding muscles which had knotted. The chiropractor did very deep massage and I tried to do it myself but couldn't get as deep. I used to do it whenever I had to stand, eg in the queue at the sandwich shop I would be giving the small of my back a massage as I waited. I'm sure it looked odd but I was in such pain that I was past caring! It did ease the pain, and as you've mentioned, Suepea, my chiropractor suggested I use a tennis ball against a wall to press into the parts you can't reach.

I would say chiropractic was effective at treating the symptoms, which gave me relief from the pain, sometimes for long periods of time, but Alexander Technique has been effective at curing the cause.