Hi,

I am new to the 'game' of finding a teacher (no such a thing where I come from!) and, after some research, I believe to have found a couple of (piano) teachers which I think might be good for me.

I have contacted one of them and she suggested having a consultation lesson. Maybe I am being naive, but I somehow assumed that such a lesson would be the occasion for her to 'sell' herself to me, and this at no cost to me. Anyway, now that we have finally agreed on a date and time, she's telling me that the consultation lesson will last 30 minutes and that it will cost me £25 (I am based just a few miles south of Oxford, in case it matters). Now, I have no idea whether this is 'normal' practice, hence I would appreciate you guys' view/experience on this matter.

Just in case, I am expecting (based on what I have read here and there) to have to pay £20-25 per hour for a 'proper' lesson, and I am completely 'OK' with that. I guess I just didn't expect having to pay £25 for a 30-minute consultation lesson.

Cheers, Alan.

PS: now thinking about it, maybe I should have inquired about costs before booking anything...

In my experience (of finding a teacher), it depends. My previous teacher did charge but would then "refund" the consultation lesson fee if you book for a block of regular lessons later on. My current teacher didn't charge for consultation. So best is to ask!

When my son changed piano teacher (some 5 or 6 years ago now) we paid for the consultation lesson at the same rate as normal lessons with that teacher. Even then we paid £28 per hour, so I think you may be hopeful if you expect to pay under £30 an hour in the Oxford area now. My son's current clarinet teacher (based in London) charges £40 per hour, but she is very good and he is at post-first diploma level.

Definitely best to ask about terms and conditions at your consultation lesson and take them into account when you decide which teacher you'd like to stay with.

I think my teacher did charge for the consultation lesson. I know it didn't occur to me to ask whether there was a charge but he had stated his rate for lessons right at the start of our correspondence so with the session being an hour long, I just accepted the charge when it turned up added on to the bill for my first lesson. I have always paid by cheque there and then anyway, and since I was immediately taken by his approach, I had no qualms about coughing up the reddies, as it were!

My teacher also charges ?40 per hour, but again, we were tackling Diploma material from the start and I'm glad I didn't think twice about it. It's probably not dissimilar to getting used to driving a Bentley. Anything less now wouldn't really come up to the mark!

It may be partly a matter of terminology, Alan. (

I do not charge for a preliminary meeting. We can discuss any aspect of teaching that you like, and I will answer questions and ask you to tell me about yourself, but there is unlikely to be any actual teaching.

I charge for a 'trial lesson' or consultation lesson, if you like, at the normal rate. The concessionary part of this is that the student can book a one-off and there is no commitment.

This is how I regard it. The first is an opportunity to find out if you would like to book the second: not all potential students bother with a meeting, but many do and seem to find it helpful.

I hope this is at least partly useful. Other teachers may have their own descriptions and their own procedures which will be different from mine.

When I first took up the clarinet, I had a introductory meeting with the teacher and it was made clear at the start that there wouldn't be any charge. I think it lasted 20-30 minutes. I can't remember whether I got my clarinet out or even whether I had a clarinet at that stage - I think it was mostly swapping information but I might be wrong.

When I changed clarinet teacher, the new teacher I approached had a brief chat with me over the phone and then asked me over for an introductory meeting for which she said there would be no charge. I took my clarinet and she was incredibly generous with her time. After 20 minutes chat, she asked me to play something, and it then turned into a lesson. Altogether I was there for about 50 minutes and she refused to accept any payment. I certainly wouldn't expect this at an "introductory meeting" but I very much appreciated her generosity.

It was a bit different when I took up piano lessons. I didn't want to spend ages trying to find the "right" teacher, so I chose one who I thought sounded suitable and I was willing to start lessons straight away and see how it worked out. So the first meeting was a proper lesson and fortunately he's turned out to be an excellent teacher.

When I was trying to find a sax teacher, I ended up using a music service. I was charged for the session (and a higher charge than the "going rate") and it was a complete waste of time and money.




As maggiemay has said, I agree it's a matter of terminology. "Consultation" implies that you're consulting someone for advice, which implies a charge. "Lesson" again implies a charge. On the other hand, if you're invited for a "chat" or a "preliminary/introductory meeting", I wouldn't expect a charge.

If you're not happy about it, perhaps you could telephone the teacher and ask what will happen in the "consultation lesson". If it is indeed going to be a lesson, perhaps you could explain that you weren't really expecting a 30-minute lesson and that you just wanted to meet for a brief chat to see if you were mutually happy to start a course of lessons subsequently... When you spoke on the phone, did you feel as if you covered enough ground to make a "brief chat" superfluous and a lesson was the next stage, or did she suggest you came for a "consultation lesson" straight away?

Edit. Thinking about it, the term "consultation lesson" sounds a bit strange. I can understand a musically advanced student or even a teacher having a "consultation" with a senior musician to discuss some specific aspects, and obviously such a session would incur a charge. But in your case, what would you be consulting them about...


Edit 2: It's just dawned on me that it's £25 for half-an-hour!!! Is £50 her normal hourly rate???

Thanks everyone, this was very useful!

I am not clear about what the consultation lesson will involve, but that's OK (to skylark: she did offer a consultation lesson straight away). I am still going ahead with it, since not only did I agree to it (yes, I have 'principles'! ) but I am also serious about learning the piano. I guess I just wanted to know what the norm is when it comes to consultation lessons, and it would seem that there is no norm as such! Oh well!

Anyway, I will make sure to ask about her terms and conditions! If anything, I am just hoping that £25 for 30 minutes is not indicative of what I might end up having to pay and how long a lesson might be (I would think it to be a bit expensive for a beginner, and the lesson a bit short, no?). Still, I am 'happy' to be flexible, as long as it is worth it!


Yes, not sure either...


Yes, that's also what I was thinking. Oh well, it's 'only' money, so we shall see how it goes!

My belief is that consultation lessons are charged at regular lesson rates but there is no requirement to commit to a block of lessons.

£25 for 30 minutes sounds very steep. I live in London and my violin teacher travels to me and charges £30 per hour. I wouldn't expect the cost to be higher in Oxford.

This does seem expensive, then again I once went to a teacher who charged £35 for 45minutes and I guess that works out similarly, and I know of teachers who charge £75+ for an hour. If I were you, I wouldn't think of it as 'expensive for a beginner'. When I was new to lessons I chose the cheapest teacher I could find, thinking that as a beginner it didn't really matter because anything they could teach me would be stuff I didn't know before. However, now I think that it is important, especially for a beginner, to go to the best teacher you can find (and afford). If you build up good habits as a beginner, you will progress so much better in the future. Now, there may be amazing teachers who charge very little, just as there certainly are not-so-good teachers who charge a lot, but if this teacher that you go to does turn out to be amazing, it doesn't seem like too much to pay.

Yes, this is the way I am currently looking at it. Now, all I have to do is to have that consultation lesson (Saturday next week) and see how it goes...

I don't call it consultation, just "first lesson", and half of it is usually talking about goals and formal stuff, while the other half is assessing the voice and starting to work - otherwise, the student won't know whether they like my approach or not.
I charge the normal rate, since even (or especially) the first lesson requires my time and expertise.

I too think of it as a first lesson rather than a consulatation. When I had mmy first lesson with current teacher I paid his usual rate, £27 at the time. Most of the lesson is spent finding out about pupil so teacher knows what they need to learn and pupil deciding if they like the teacher. LLittle learning is done in the first lesson.

Firstly, welcome to the forums.

Secondly, Abingdon, when I grew up there (Holland Road), was well served with music teachers. In addition to the regular schools and the one-to-one lessons there was a Saturday morning music school for those children who were interested and quite a few from there went on to make careers in music. Although that started at John Mason in the 60's, (when it was a Grammar School, though the music school was completely independent), it moved to The Old Gaol sometime in the 70's, shortly after I gave up music lessons and then left home. How are things there now?

Thirdly, whether it's called a consultation or a lesson or a consultation lesson it is half an hour of teachers time: I would expect to pay the normal rate, but I would also expect to get clear up front what the charge (if any) is.

Fourthly, the first visit isn't just for the teacher to pitch to you: It cuts both ways.

My current piano teacher charges £46 per hour, in north Surrey, and he's worth every penny of it. I just wish I could have had someone like him earlier on - I would have progressed so much better.

Only my daughter's Recorder Teacher ever offered a Consultaion lesson. It was paid for at his normal rate. As someone else said it was used to see if she wanted to continue lessons and indeed if hew wanted to teach her on a regular basis. She was at the time Grade 7 so not a beginner.

I guess different teachers have different ideas.

Hope the Piano lessons work out for you.

I'm obviously in the wrong areas of the country and charging far too little!!! I'll have to move south!!

[quote name='DocOx' date='Apr 1 2010, 03:49 PM' post='936938']
Hi,

I am new to the 'game' of finding a teacher (no such a thing where I come from!) and, after some research, I believe to have found a couple of (piano) teachers which I think might be good for me.

I have contacted one of them and she suggested having a consultation lesson. Maybe I am being naive, but I somehow assumed that such a lesson would be the occasion for her to 'sell' herself to me, and this at no cost to me. Anyway, now that we have finally agreed on a date and time, she's telling me that the consultation lesson will last 30 minutes and that it will cost me £25 (I am based just a few miles south of Oxford, in case it matters). Now, I have no idea whether this is 'normal' practice, hence I would appreciate you guys' view/experience on this matter.

Just in case, I am expecting (based on what I have read here and there) to have to pay £20-25 per hour for a 'proper' lesson, and I am completely 'OK' with that. I guess I just didn't expect having to pay £25 for a 30-minute consultation lesson.

Cheers, Alan.

PS: now thinking about it, maybe I should have inquired about costs before booking anything...
[/quote

I would have thought that £25 per half hour was quite steep, is it that she is a concert pianist? I pay £24 per hour. I never had a consultation lesson and went straight into a regular lesson.

Word of mouth is always a good option. We found my teacher as she was already teaching my son kindermusic at the local music centre and we have never looked back. She is lovely, the down side is she is always so busy, so there are occasions that she has to miss lessons and there never seems to be the opportunity to have extra if you would like to.

Good luck with your piano lessons.

Thanks!


I wouldn't know. I came in the area, from France, for work...


I didn't initially think of it that way, but I have to agree with you, time (and expertise) is money. I guess I was just surprised by the cost. Had it been £25 for an hour (as I have seen here and there), I would probably not have started this thread.


I guess that, if anything, this thread will have shown that this is indeed the case.


Thanks, I hope so too. At the end of the day, I am happy to pay more than the 'norm', if it means that the teaching is also going to be better than the 'norm'.


I'm obviously in the wrong area of the country and about to pay far too much!? I'll have to move North!!


She is indeed a concert pianist, which I guess might explain (a lot)...?


That's one of my problems (besides not being 100% familiar with the British musical system), i.e. the fact that I don't know anyone in the area who is learning the piano, so I had to rely on what I could find on the Internet. There are some good resources, though it's still a bit of a gamble and probably the reason I am happy to have a consultation lesson (rather than commit myself to several lessons, hoping that we would get along and that I would be happy with her teaching).


Thanks!

Hi

I wonder if you also shouldn't just check before the consultation lesson exactly what the cost of her normal lessons are and thus check that they fall within your budget.

It would be disappointing for you to have the consultation lesson, really like the teacher and subsequently find that the weekly cost is prohibitive.

Perhaps you could ring her on the 'pretext' of confirming the consultation lesson and 'casually' ask the regular lesson price ?

Musicman's Mum

A couple of years ago my daughter had three "consultation lessons" during school holidays with an orchestral clarinettist. His policy was to charge 50% more for the first such lesson than for subsequent lessons with the same student. So there may be some hope that regular lessons with this piano teacher would not be quite so expensive as the first one. But yes, worth checking.

As I think it was hinted above, 'consultation' could imply that she'll be making the decision on that occasion as to whether or not she's happy to teach YOU, as well as vice versa. As for the fee - she must reckon she's worth it and is able to command it. Whether or not you do is up to you! Don't be afraid to ask about previous successes - not just the standard of musicians she has 'turned out', but what standard they were when they first arrived on her doorstep. How much did she improve them? I'm not saying it's the case this time, but some teachers rely on their performance reputation rather than their teaching reputation. There is a difference. And some may only be interested in you in the long term with regard to how much you will add to their reputation. I hope I don't sound cynical; I do hope this works out for you - but consider your own goals carefully and make them clear to her.

I hear what you are saying, but I can't see myself asking her that kind of question over the phone. I would prefer to ask her in person. Otherwise, should the weekly cost be 'prohibitive', maybe I could have fortnight lessons? I am not sure whether it would be wise, but it might still be better than nothing (assuming that she would be OK with it)?


I will make sure to have a list of questions I want to ask before going there, and one of those questions will definitely be about costs!


You might very well be right! I suppose that, as a concert pianist, she must value her time and probably want to make sure that whoever she's going to teach is actually worth teaching. As for me, I have very clear goals (whether they are realistic or not is another matter! ), and I intend to assess her on the basis of whether she can help me reaching them.

It sounds as if you are assuming that this teacher will be "the one", and that you have accepted the notion of paying double(?) the going rate and resigned yourself to fortnightly lessons without approaching any other teachers. "Most expensive" may equal "best" in this instance, but it isn't necessarily the case. Both my piano teacher and my clarinet teacher are excellent but they charge no more than the going rate; indeed my clarinet teacher charged a good deal less than the going rate until I insisted on paying the same as I paid for my piano lessons as I felt guilty about it. You're not under any obligation to continue lessons with the first teacher you approach. She may charge more as a concert pianist but that doesn't necessarily make her a better teacher. One of my teachers was a professional performer but in my opinion wasn't as good a teacher as the replacement I found. Sometimes professional performers do teaching to enhance their income because performance income isn't enough to sustain them and have no real love of teaching or empathy with their students. What I'm trying to say is - do keep an open mind when you go and don't feel as if you have to fall over backwards to fit in with this one teacher by paying twice the rate and fortnightly lessons - there are other teachers out there who might be just as good if not better but who charge a more "normal" rate and with whom you could have weekly lessons.

Be sure that I am keeping a very open mind. Being in academia, I know people who are very good at research, but very bad at teaching, and vice versa (and yes, there are also some who are good at both ), so if anything I am familiar with what you are describing here.

At the end of the day, I am just trying to think about all possible scenarios, though I have a pretty clear idea of which scenario I am after.

Hiya!

I went for a consultation with a concert pianist in London - which was £35 for 45 minutes....however his usual rate is £85/hour! I know this seems a lot, but I am fully prepared to pay this!! He was amazing, and taught me things about my technique that has changed the way I play and teach some aspects of the piano.

Having lived in Oxford a few years back, I think that Oxford and London prices are VERY similar (housing/living costs/council tax etc) and I wouldn't be suprised if music costs were high there.

If you can afford a concert pianist from the beginning then do it!!

What is expensive? A well known concert pianist in the city of London charges 90 GBP per hour for lessons. At those rates an income of 100,000+ per year is easily possible - without working excessively long hours.

[And that just from teaching ... and he still has whatever he makes from 100 recitals a year and CD royalties]

What is your standard of playing at the minute? I know highly qualified and acclaimed teachers/musicians who are excellent at putting on the cream when the groundwork has been done by more 'ordinary' teachers, but who don't always display the same teaching talent with beginners or with those who are at an earlier stage. Please forgive the word 'ordinary'. What I mean is those unsung teachers who maintain motivation, know what will work and when, and are realistic with every individual. Not all of these teachers will be able to take you to Licentiate Diploma level, but not all concert pianists will be able to get the best from a Grade 2 pianist either!

I'd be very uncomfortable with a teacher who I thought had ideas on who was worth teaching. I had a teacher once who would get rid of those who he considered were not doing as well as he wanted. He was, at that point, the most 'qualified' teacher I'd had (and currently a guest of Her Majesty but that' another story ).

When moving on to a new piano teacher at the beginning of the year the one thing I knew I wanted was that the teacher enjoyed teaching. That's something that I don't think you have to ask as it usually comes across quite clearly when you meet and talk to a teacher. My new teacher is a concert pianist and I feel very comfortable with her and there has been no indication that she is the sort of person who likes to choose students who are 'worth her time'.

Generally I've found that 'gut reaction' is a good indicator.

It may be more a case of ascertaining whether teaching and learning styles are likely to gel and whether it seems that a positive rapport will develop, rather than a more "judgemental" (or even arrogant) assessment of whether a pupil potentially comes up to scratch. And I guess if one isn't short of pupils and one's time is valuable, it's fair enough to be a bit choosy.

There are all sorts of varying agendas and preconditions on the part of both teacher and pupil, all of which are fair enough as long as they are made clear by both sides.

I don't think people who look carefully who they teach are always taking the view that the pupil may not be "worthy" of their teaching. The reasons for being so will vary widely.

Some teachers are more suited to teaching advancing pupils just as others will be great with beginners. I'd rather people recognised their strenghts and taught to them.

There's a difference between those who feel that their strengths lie in certain areas or with more or less advanced students and other sorts of selectiveness.

It is not a matter of worthiness. It is finding a good match between teacher and students characters, personalities, ambitions and skills.

When I eventually get out of IT and start to teach piano I will be in the fortunate position that I won't depend on the income for a livelihood. It will not be about the money, so I will be able to be very picky about who I teach.

I don't think I would be at all interested in giving lessons to anyone that was not prepared to work very hard at improving their skills. I'd find it difficult to motivate myself to put my devoted efforts into helping someone that did not invest enough of their own time and effort.

That is not saying that only hard workers would be "worthy" of my teaching. It is just one more part of finding a good fit, so that student and teacher can work well together.

It's just as well that you won't be depending on the money as in the real world I think you will find that very few students will give that degree of committment.

As a British person in France, good luck to you and your music, Mr. French person in England !

I agree with Dulciana, what is your standard ? Don't assume all concert pianists are excellent teachers and certainly not for all levels. Nor all styles. Do you want to play classical piano or, in your mind's eye, do you see yourself more as an Elton John player ? If you don't know anyone else who plays, do you know anyone with kids that play? Try visiting the nearest music shop - they might have a list of piano teachers.
Then again, maybe you'll get on really well with this teacher and it'll be money well spent.

Again, best of luck.

Merci !


About my standard, I did learn the viola for a few years (back in France; probably to the equivalent of grade 4-5), but that was 20+ years ago. Now, I am interested in learning the piano and I am a complete beginner in that instrument. I have gone through the syllabus of grade 1, and I believe to be pretty much done with it. That's roughly where I think I am.

As for the style, I am interested in classical piano and this is one of the reasons I decided on the teacher I contacted. Now, I fully agree that concert pianist doesn't necessarily mean good teacher, and I will certainly keep that in mind on Saturday when I have my consultation lesson.

There are, of course, other reasons why a teacher may choose to be quite selective about who they choose to teach.

My teacher has a health condition that means she may on occasion need to cancel lessons at short notice, she does not wish to teach children because of the frequent infections they carry, and she trusts her pupils to ring and cancel if they or their immediate family have any kind of respiratory tract infection.

Now this may mean that the teacher/pupil relationship in this case will not suit everyone. As it happens, this kind of flexibility suits me down to the ground - in return for the occasional last minute cancelled lesson I have the flexibility to do the same without having to pay cancellation fees which is great as the mother of 4 small children! An unusual relationship which suits us both and I feel privileged to have found an excellent teacher who is prepared to teach me.

Up here in the North East it is very difficult to find good teachers who have been to music school etc, they are mostly of the "I have taken grade 8" variety, and to find a properly qualified "real" teacher outside of the large conurbations is another bonus not to be taken lightly!

Just a few thoughts from my own experiences to add to the discussion...!