I did my grade 8 singing before easter and passed (115).

However, my singing teacher and I were expecting a merit/distinction and I got much lower marks on my pieces than I was expecting and I have never got lower than a merit before. I was never expecting the aural to be that good as I found it difficult. I thought the sightreading went alright but I got 13 (fail mark), which is annoying as I know I can sight sing when not under pressure.

I really wanted to move on after this exam but if I want to further my singing, I probably need a higher grade 8 mark.

I was thinking of either retaking in july (slight problem of my AS exams) or perhaps waiting till next march, in which time I could improve my aural and sightreading skills - but then I definitely wouldn't be moving on!

Please help.....thanks

Firstly congratulations on passing grade 8! I see you're doing AS levels at the moment - are you planning to apply to do music at uni? If so then retaking might be a good idea if you're aiming for a distinction to put on your UCAS application. If not, you've passed and even if the mark isn't as high as you would like, it's a comfortable pass. I think it would make more sense to look closely at the comments sheet for your exam to see which areas you need to focus on now - see the exam as a springboard for future progress, with the comments to give you an idea of which direction to face.

Remember the prerequisite for DipABRSM is a Grade 8 pass, not a Grade 8 distinction, so that would imply that getting a pass rather than a distinction is not a barrier to future musical progress. It sounds like the barrier is more in your head than anywhere else - applaud yourself for your success and channel your enthusiasm into where you want to take your singing next, rather than dwelling on your mark alone.

I've been wondering the same thing recently.

I did grade 8 clarinet last July and got a merit, which I was very happy with, but since then I've become fairly certain that music is what I want to do after I leave school. Would I need a distinction at grade 8 for universities to accept me to do music? I'm currently 15 and in year 10 so I have a coule more years before I need to start thinking properly about university, but I have just been thinking about it recently. Also, I will probably have one or maybe even two more grade 8s by the time I leave school, as I'm working on grade 8 on piano, and on grade 7 on the sax at the moment.

Not planning on taking music at uni but definitely want to carry it on there at a high level. I suppose the mark just really knocked my confidence more than else because I felt that I really peaked for that exam.

Thanks for your advice though, I'll definitely take the comments into account even if I don't quite agree with them.


just to clarify, it's the examiner's comments that I don't agree with. Yours were very helpful, thank you.

I not convinced that retaking an exam (especially one you've passed) is ever moving on.
You can move on without ever taking exams and sometimes exams can be more of a hold up than a move on.
There may well be times when a retake is more of a necessity but this doesn't always result it a higher mark.

What does your teacher think?

I retook my grade 8 a year after sitting it the first time, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, in the event I was ill on the day second time around and ended up getting one mark less the second time around 118/117). If you need to have a distinction then do it if not the time would probably be better spent on expanding reprertoire and working on technique etc.

No, not necessarily. Assuming you want to major on clari, you need to be playing consistently at grade 8 distinction-y (or, in many cases, higher) sort of level, but that doesn't mean you need the bit of paper to prove it. Most institutions will interview and audition you to ascertain what level you're genuinely at.

You're probably right...it's just annoying as both my teacher and the person who accompanied me on the piano in the exam think I should have got distinction marks for my pieces (which I didn't). My teacher's leaving the decision to me but was definitely shocked at the mark.

I've been accepted at Cardiff and I haven't done my Grade 8 yet (doing it this summer) so providing your doing well in A Level music etc. you should be ok.

OK, thank you! I know I could have got a distinction because I played my pieces pretty badly on the day, and I've definitely improved loads since then, and I still have two or three more years to improve as well.

I got 117 for my Grade 8 clarinet and was worried I wouldn't get into university. In the end, I put the dates and marks from Grade 7 (132) and Grade 8 on the UCAS form, so that they could see I'd taken them only a term apart - my teacher's decision to take them so close together, not mine! I was also offering piano and viola at a lower level. I applied to 6 universities, and all of them called me for interview, and all of them offered me a place. It's as much dependent on the audition, interview and A level results as anything else, so please don't worry. I personally didn't re-sit, just moved on to the diploma (13 years, 2 degrees and 2 kids later though!!)

elliewelly - wise words there.

dramallama and kinsgley13, you should be proud of your achievements at grade 8. As all musicians know - the mark you were given only reflects your performance at one particular moment , on one particular day, and does not in any way fix or set your future path. What is more crucial for those considering music at HE or even for a career, is your commitment to realise your potential through dedication to your future achievements. A-level grades, and your performance at interview and audition, combined with your practical results, give admissions tutors a general picture, and they are skilled at filtering out those having the certificates but not the motivation, from those having both the drive and aptitude needed to succeed.

So put your great results behind you and build on them, by applying your energy and time wisely - work on repertoire, technique and general musicianship, which will put you in a much better position for further musical studies, IMHO.

(From a Grade 8 re-sitter, who got Merit 1st time, and Distinction 2nd time ..... )

"Do as I say, not as I do...."

denmark

This thread is really interesting.

As daughter is about to take her first Grade 8, and given the Flute result last session. I have wondered what might happen if she gets a pass or merit at Grade 8.

To be honest I don't know what is right or wrong. No doubt there isn't one.

My gut feeling is that it would depend on whether it was the instrument daughter wanted to persue at Uni level. I suspect if it was then she may well resit. Though I doubt it would be the same exam format as she took in the first instance. I agree with it being important to move on so we would definately be looking for a new challenge to achieve whatever was needed. I think work on designated weak areas would be top of the agenda.

If all you are going to do is more of the same then I think it's risky to depend on Diploma or the notion of improving.

I suppose how much time you have before auditions and interviews start is important in any decision. I'm not a teacher or in any way musical so this is a very personal viewpoint.

I agree with sbhoa that there's nothing to be gained from retaking, and that it might actually hold back genuine progress. I've seen people scrape through by the skin of their teeth at Grade 7 and then get distinctions at Grade 8, so the mark on the day isn't necessarily an illustration of what you could do on a different day with a different examiner, and it's not necessarily an indication of potential. A few marks lost here and there can take you down very easily from a low distinction to a high pass. I would take the examiner's comments on board even if you don't fully agree with them, and bear them in mind for the future; maybe your priorities were just elsewhere. If you want to prove yourself why not just look at a diploma syllabus and do it that way? Then again, if you don't mind shelling out the money again, and can take Grade 8 again at the next session with little extra effort, whilst working at other things at the same time, then why not, if this is really important to you? But do contemplate the prospect of the mark not improving - or going down. If you were to sing the same pieces next time they could go a little stale, and you might feel under extra pressure the next time round.

I had exactly this dilema! I just did my Grade 8 (clarinet) and I got 114, both me and my clarinet teacher (and my music teacher actually) were very disappointed and I'd been aiming for at least a merit. In the end I decided not to retake as I am so bored of my pieces and didn't really have enough time to learn new ones with my A level exams as well. I also decided that there are plenty of technique things that I can try and sort out, where as I might not have time if I redid my Grade 8, and at the end of the day, that will make me a better clarinettist in the long run, and that's more important than a very subjective mark!

If you're worried about unis then I really wouldn't, I applied with my Grade 7 mark (121) and hadn't even got my G8, but I still got 5 offers from Birmingham, Durham, Nottingham, Royal Holloway and Sheffield, so it really isn't the end of the world. I didn't even have to audition! It might be more problematic if you want to apply to conservatoires with more emphasis on performance, but I don't really know. Anyway, hope that helped

er ... WHY?

Heck ... I only got Grade 3 in my O-level Music back in 1971. Should I re-take to get a Grade 1 [or rather GCSE to get an A*]. Of course not.

Nobody really cares what actual mark you got except maybe you, your teacher, possibly some close family, maybe a close friend or two (but they won't care very much).

You passed. You've reached the standard. You should be pleased. A lot of entrants fail.

If you are planning to go to a conservatoire you'd be better off working towards a diploma. And in any case you will have to impress them at audition, and not with your Grade 8 marks.

From my point of view re-taking is pointless.

There seems to be a consenus about not retaking and I can understand why.

Out of interest what steps would everyone take to ensure they were progressing? Would they change anything? How could you be sure that you have actually progressed? Would this be entirely dependent on your own judgement?

As I explained this is a topic that interests me.

I heard of someone who passed Grade 8 singing at the age of 12 with 118 - re-took it (for UCAS points) at the age of 17 and got 120...

A friend of mine retook her grade 8, because she couldn't get into Music college without a distinction. Originally she went to Nottingham Uni to read music, but it wasn't what she really wanted, so she retook her grade 8, reapplied and went to the Royal Northern instead.

Sometimes you have to look good on paper to get to the stage where you can impress them by sounding good.

I don't see why retaking grade 8 is seen as holding someone back. If you move on and improve technique and work on new pieces it should be possible to return to grade 8 later, when it will seem easy compared to the level you are now woking at. Learning a new set of pieces for the exam rather than rehashing the old ones can't hold you back.

The exam result isn't the be all and end all, and Kingsley and dramallama should be very proud of their achievments, but retaking might be a necessary step eventually.

I was beginning to think I was totally out of step.

I don't think I'd encourage daughter to retake an instrument that she wasn't going to study at Uni level but it may be a different story if it was one that she wanted to persue.

Using the comment sheets from the exam is all well and good if there is actually stuff there that will guide you to improve.

I can see what you're saying, but from what I understand, the conservatoires audition all applicants, so it really doesn't matter about what you get at grade 8.



I think that general progress in technique and musicianship is better than an improvement in 3 or 4 pieces and some specific tests. I would have a talk through with my teacher in order to assess strengths and weaknesses in technique and discuss ways forward. I would consider a change of teacher if I didn't think the current teacher could help me. I'd also spend lots of time going to concerts, reading relevant books and listening to recordings - anything to get ideas and gain a better understanding of music. I think you know when you've improved in technique because after a while, you get a kind of eureka moment when things make sense, and you can do things that you previously couldn't. Yes, I think it is quite a subjective thing that is dependent on people's judgement, but then music is a very subjective and personal thing. Exams can be a good indicator of where you're at, but they don't always mean a lot. For example, I got a good, solid merit at grade 8 singing, but I know that a lot of fundamental technique wasn't in place - I guess I just managed to blag my way through it.

The grade 8 repertoire is full of different challenges, and parts of it also appear on the DipABRSM lists. I certainly wouldn't recommend re-doing grade 8 with the same pieces, but there's plenty of choice and it can be good to try again with a new programme; you extend the range of things you can play.

At the same time, I think it is a bit of a lottery what mark you get on the day. It's no good assuming you will automatically get more marks the second time, as it may not happen even if you're playing much better in general than you were.

It is worth bearing in mind that UCAS points are by no means universal. Many universities still make grade-based offers only, and if they do give a points-based offer they may well specify that a certain number of points need to come from A level (or whatever exams you're doing) subjects or that they only accept a certain number of points from 'other' pursuits such as music, and I believe they can decline to accept points from music exams altogether. Of my 6 university offers (in 2006, I understand you get 5 choices now), 5 were based solely on A level grades. I mention this because I hear people talking about UCAS points for grade exams a lot and I would hate for someone to push themselves - or be pushed - through Grade 6-8 exams for the sake of UCAS points only to find out they won't be counted after all. I notice this doesn't tend to happen with higher grade theory exams, probably because they are worth so few points.

Absolutely!

Couldn't agree more!

With the exception of conservatoire entry (and even there you don't necessarily need The Bit of Paper) the practical entry-requirement for a BMus varies hugely. Our Further Education system is now so poor it has fallen into three tiers in my opinion (and probably most of my generation would agree). This is NOT a dig at current students who work jolly hard; it is just indicative of The Powers That Be moving the goalposts.

HOWEVER, there's no need to retake. If you are looking at conservatoires you will have to audition and the standard is post-Grade 8. Top tier universities - example Oxbridge may look beyond the playing ability. I know of one recent Cambridge interview/audition that included harmonisation without access to a keyboard for example. Taking the other extreme, the academic entry point is much, much lower and they may not want to hear you perform at all! Alpha Male Jazz Cat has close ties to one such establishment and it is the norm for students not to take Grade 8 until 1st or 2nd year! Sis recently worked with university undergrads where the majority didn't read music at all. But hey, they'll ALL come out with a BMus...

SO - lots of different ways in so no need to stress about unnecessary retakes. The important thing is to focus on where you want to study and then make sure you meet that establishment's requirements.

The very best of luck to the OP.

Bx

This is an interesting thread. My son has just taken grade 8 and got a merit when he wanted a distinction. He failed the aural, which is a regular occurance! He was wondering about retaking, as he thought he needed to get a distinction to get into a conservetoire. However, he came home from his lesson last week and said that his teacher recommended that he should do the diploma instead. I looked into what the diploma involves and to me it looks like a better option than retaking. It will help him to continue improving his technique, and will expand his repetoire and he will have to learn about the pieces and their composers to write the programme notes. A bonus is that there is no aural!

I agree with the general consensus here, retaking is probably pointless unless it's to secure a pass after failing an exam. You achieved a grade 8 which is fantastic - just look at the board stats to see what a small group of people actually achieve that and revel in the experience that you've passed!

Personally, I would go on to Dip level (especially if you're considering a conservatoire) as its really important to develop technique and your own musical voice. The levels above Gd8 are all about muscianship, interpretation and communication of the music you play - the exams at this level are different - more public performances and are judged as such. The skill needed to be successful beyond Gd8 means you need a great specialist teacher and some time to experiment with wider repertoire and your playing. I got gd8 dist 20yrs ago and it took me 2 decades via a music degree and plenty of time not even playing to pluck up the courage to sit my DIP last year - and i got it with a distinction but only after lots of coaching and encouragement from a brilliant teacher helping me as a performing musician.

Had a horrible experience of having to take gd5 piano 5 times to pass it and get my place at uni (it was required back then!) i vowed never to retake again! I also dont play piano anymore and gave it up almost as soon as i got the gd5! Hope this helps.

Don't let it get you down, especially as you've time ahead of you to progress. Depends how important the mark is to you c.f. what else you can do with your time. Diploma would make G8 ~irrelevant?

Experience this year suggests even top (university) courses don't necessarily require the G8 Distinction piece of paper (e.g. daughter with 2 G8 distinctions rejected out of hand for one course; friend without a distinction, although well deserving of one, at least got an interview). Snapshot of Oxbridge offers also suggests playing is not a priority (Cambridge says as much). Take heart from that.

~off topic. But do work on your keyboard skills if you can, if only to make your life easier



Been niggling me that I supplied false info earlier in the year regarding what universities could ask for. This was in relation to how good your piano skills had to be to apply for BMus at university - daughter's are somewhat rudimentary. I said that I didn't think universities could stipulate anything other than academic (A level etc) grades. Wrong. Daughter was asked for Grade 5 piano by KCL. However, she HAD put on her application that she was taking it (fortunately she got it). I am pretty sure at least one person offered a place in the same round didn't have any piano (so lesson clear there - don't offer more than you have to!). Not being up to much on piano has [edit 19/5] NOT stopped her being offered places BUT life will be much easier for her if/when she can improve her piano playing. Lessons continue

I beleive Freddy Mercury took piano up to passing Grade 5, then no more exams. "Not being up to much on piano" did not seem to hamper his career!!

I will take heart from that