Well that's a lesson to me about not making simplistic assumptions.

How lovely! To be so well considered and to have a creative conductor. So does he compose quite a bit and you get to play new music? Or just arrangements?

It is yes And makes a very nice change from my other wind bands/orchestras.


He does a bit of both. If you're interested I can PM or e-mail you a link to his website.

Yes please!

stuff oboe players say

obviously nothing here that I've ever said... *cough*

made me smile this afternoon....

Of course not

I just got sent that yesterday on Facebook by a flautist friend.

I think those girls were actually flautists!

You need to send them this as retaliation.

It turns out they are oboists (and ***** good ones too).

Oh dear. There is no hope for us.

(But I could happily live with being considered rather mad and the butt if oboist jokes if I were ***** good too.)

Butt of jokes? Spare a thought for me. Before oboe I played viola

And as a Morris-dancing accordion player (great stuff! ) you must be pretty immune. by now.

My still-virgin viola hasn't even made it to the luthier yet. Maybe if I don't get my job tomorrow and have enough time on my hands for something other than the oboe... Not much time even for that right now.

Better make more time soon. Back to classes week after next, salsa concert in April beckoning and want to have something to show at Dartington this year - signed up the day bookings opened!

Not to mention working in IT. Yes I am quite thick skinned.

I had a good lesson tonight (And this was despite the weather threatening snow which meant that my reeds felt like they were made of planks of wood).

My teacher said the first page of "Morceau de Salon" was "good" . Coming from him this is really positive as he rarely says anything more encouraging than "not bad" (and he doesn't even say that very often).

The fast bits still need work but he said mainly I need to work on them psychologically - to convince myself that they are not hard and not particularly fast He assures me that my fingers do know where they are going and that if I just relax (and breathe properly ) they will play themselves.

He also said that my breathing is finally improving and that he has noticed a real difference since the Christmas holidays. I can't say that I have but I am prepared to believe him.

I seem to know quite a few IT people who are creative and involved in performance arts (mostly musicians but a couple of actors too). Probably more than friends in other non-arts careers.


Great news!

We definitely need to hear you some time!

The oboe has continued to stay on my back burner. I'm hoping that the investment in good health will pay off with better energy and that I can get back to the right balance.

Wondering whether to take the Patricola to Canada or not...

If it's going to be really cold (which is what it sounds like from one of your other posts) I wouldn't bother - none of your reeds will work and it will just be frustrating.

If your lessons start again the following week then you might as well just aim to make a new start in full health and feeling fit (I assume/hope your diet is no longer exhausting you quite so much). As I'm sure I've said before, my teacher's theory is that if you have a proper break, you lose your bad habits but keep the good ones

It is so cold here
It snowed on Sunday and the temperature hasn't risen above - 5?C in the daytime since. My central heating is not used to these sorts of temperatures and the downstairs room where I usually practise was only 15?C this morning My fingers were too cold to move properly but I discovered that while half-holing and the little fingers were not moving precisely enough all the other fingers were surprisingly fluent and that I was playing faster than usual without it sounding messy. I'm now trying to work out why straight up/down movements should be more efficent when my fingers are so cold I can barely feel them or what I usually do that stops them working efficently

I'm hoping that things will warm up at least slightly in the next 24 hours so that I can actually have my lesson on Friday.

Edit: the question mark was supposed to be a degree sign.

My sympathies! That must be very unusually cold for your part of the world...

It is, of course, even colder here in Canada. In the end I lugged the old Patricola up here but I haven't been able to play it as I've been so busy. I hope to have a chance tomorrow. I'm glad I didn't bring the Howarth - it's frighteningly dry here and the oboe has changed colour! I brought a "dampit" with me but I'm keeping the oboe in the bathroom and steaming up with a basinful of hot water from time to time to avoid cracks. I've got a couple of ultra soft reeds that I hope will function here as they should have hardened up a bit.

Hoping to go skating on the canal on Sunday and go see ice sculptures (it's the winter festival here).

My band neigbour (the flautist) has very kindly scanned one of the salsa pieces for me. It's this one, in case anyone's interested. Sounds like the oboe has a trumpet part.

The Canadians are presumably used to it and have some sort of strategy for dealing with it. My daughters had four days off school because although they could (and did) walk there, there were so few staff present bcause the roads were unusable that they were asked to go home again and they only allowed the youngest ones whose parents were working to stay.


That sounds worrying


Hope you enjoy the skating - probably a more sensible activity than oboe playing in such weather

When do you get back to sunnier climes?

Well, I think you were probably right, Roseau. Lugging the oboe up here hasn't been worth it. I've been busy all week and only today managed to get it out but everything has thoroughly dried out / shrunk over the week. The oboe is OK - I discovered this problem when I brought it a couple of years ago so now I'm better prepared. I've been keeping an eye and taking all measures possible to humidify but I think one or two of the pads have shrunk a bit and are leaking. It did improve a bit after playing a while - I think it wanted some nice damp, warm breath.

I'm still trying to work out the science of reed and climate. When I crowed my reeds, the best sounding one was actualy the slightly harder reed that had worked best in the much hotter and more humid climate of the town where we had our summer course. The two soft reeds sounded quite vile and had opened up horribly at the sides. However, they are easier to play. I can't put the oboe down for more than a few seconds without having to re-soak the reed, which is a right pain. I think I'm going to have to give up. I would like to know more about what is actually going on with the reed when it is hot vs. cold, damp vs. dry. Maybe then I could work out what I need to adjust.

I started work on the first salsa piece (Arroz con Habichuela - Rice and Beans). It's written in the right key (Db) for trying to play along with the recording on YouTube, although I'm getting slightly lost with the improvisations that don't quite coincide with the arrangement. And I can't keep "re-winding" without that wretched reed-drying-out problem so I haven't got beyond a few goes on the introduction... Will just have to cross my fingers that I'm not completely behind the rest of the gang on Tuesday and a complete wash-up in my first proper lesson of the year. (At last. )

Back to sunny Costa Rica on Monday.

Off to a music shop now, so please I don't end up spending the rest of this month's salary...

Have you got back to the oboe as well? When's your first lesson?

I am increasingly dis-satisfied with my tonguing and discussions with my teacher always seem to end up talking about vowels and consonants. This is the first time I have really felt there is a "language problem" as they clearly don't mean the same thing to him as a French speaker as they do to me as an English speaker. In my last lesson, he said they can't be that different as there are good English-speaking oboists, all I could say to that was that it wasn't that I doubted that English-speakers could play the oboe, it was that I don't understand what he is saying about the consonants.

Anyway, my copy of the British Double Reed Society magazine turned up yesterday and it has an article on playing staccato. To my delight it says that the way the English language is spoken is not as conducive to oboe-playing as French, Italian or Spanish is so I can go to my lesson on Friday, waving the article, and tell him that it is not me imagining things, there really is a difference It is also has a series of exercises so I'm hoping that these might finally mean tonguing makes sense to me (I haven't yet had time to try them as I was working all day yesterday).

I'd be interested to hear how you get on Roseau. I read that article too and will be having a go with the exercises over the weekend. I have been thinking more about where I place my tongue on the reed and which part of the tongue I use. Have done some experiments but no conlusive findings yet, except I think I probably have to go closer to the tip on each. I also have problems with tongueing upsetting my air flow and my embouchure which indicates, to me, that something isn't quite right.

Katica - how are you getting on? Hope you are back home now and getting back into things.

Arondudonuts, Hardying, AUK - how are you getting on?

I have put the Reizenstein to one side now, the final movement grew on me quite a bit in the end but I'm not overly sorry to have finished it. I've just started the first movement of the Mozart Quartet - so nice light, clean articulation is the order of the day (in my dreams if not reality!).

I also had my first Rite of Spring rehearsal with my teacher's orchestra. I'm playing 3rd oboe (the 4th doubles on Cor). It went better than expected, I couldn't play most of the notes but at least I could keep up enough to know which notes I should be playing and when I should be coming in - most of the time anyway. Having listened to it on YouTube I was worried I'd spend the whole rehearsal being completely lost. So I have some hope that it will become playable!

I had my first lesson, "solfeo" and band rehearsal on Tuesday. I was sooooooooo happy!

My teacher obviously doesn't read his e-mails as I had written to remind him that I'd be back from Canada for classes on Feb 14 but he wasn't expecting me. I don't think he was much in the mood for a formal lesson and he hadn't brought the new method I'm supposed to start on. All we did was work on sound and exercises for correcting my 4th/5th finger and hand positions, in a "do what I do" format. I loved it! I've been needing that for months!

He was really, really worried about our salsa concert and threatening the Director with calling it off as the rehearsal had been really slow last week... but then we had a really good rehearsal. It was such fun! And we actually got some compliments for once!!!

Mind you, I'm worried now as we only managed to whack one relatively easy piece into shape. We only have six rehearsals until the concert and the pro extras will only be there for the last two... with a dozen pieces on the menu, this means two to three pieces per week and I have no idea how we are going to manage. Some of them are quite difficult!

I rather hope I don't have to tackle any new stuff on my own and we can do salsa in lessons too.

The flautist and I started work on Gordon Jacob's Inventions for flute and oboe. They're not really hard (maybe around G6?) but it's going to take a while to get them up to speed. We really like them.

I think my teacher has been reading that article This week's trick is fast legato scales with the aim to get them as smooth and fast as possible, plus fast tongued semi-quavers, then combine the two (fast, even, tongued scales). So that'll fill in a few hours then!

Also new this week - Reizenstein Sonatina.

What I found really useful was her saying that French and English are not the same and influence the way you articulate on the oboe, confirming something I have sensed and proving I am not going slowly mad I turned up to my lesson today waving the article and saying I have finally understood why I don't understand. My teacher (ever the optomist) asked if it had made a difference to my playing I said not yet, but I hoped it would

Actually, inspired by this, I did a bit of research on the internet and found several articles comparing English and French mouth shape/tonge position and the effects this has on playing woodwind instruments. This has given me lots to think about, but will take me a while to assimilate.

What I found helpful in the BDRS article was the idea of saying "L" rather than "t" to check the air-stream and the idea of thinking of the air as a conveyor belt at the front of the mouth. I am less convinced by the relaxed dog tongue (but I am also not sure that I have fully understood what she means).


You are so lucky to have this experience (*jealous*)


Here's hoping it's the first of many


Maybe you're a band that works under pressure


My flautist friend is convinced that they're impossible and won't even try sight-reading them with me

Oh no.
We just took the first one andante. The second one (poco largo, if I remember rightly) is lovely. Very ghostly. I'm a bit worried that they are not to the taste of our usual recital public, who like a good tune, but fortunately my flautist pal has taken to them so much she's convinced we should play them whatever anyone else thinks.

I'm also very envious of the Rite of Spring experience! Good for you for managing to follow it, flobiano! It has the reputation of being a tough piece to play.

Roseau, I saw your remarks about the language-articulation article over on the sax thread and it sounded fascinating. I was going to ask for a link, if on the internet, but I guess if it's in a BDRS publication it won't be... I'd appreciate any links to the other things you find, though.

Funnily enough, I was just thinking about this the other day. I was in the car and taking a bit of Nick Daniel's advice and playing my reed as I drove along and realised it was quite useful for articulation as well as long note practice. (Not a good idea to play with closed eyes, though. ) And I wondered whether, being English and having slightly different-sounding consonants (even when speaking Spanish, I suspect) makes some kinds of articulation easier or more difficult than others. What do you find easier/more difficult, kerioboe?

I was finding legato-tongued notes a bit difficult on the reed only. Reed only practice is not completely reliable, though - sometimes having the oboe on the end of it does change how the airflow feels...

I don't know the Reizenstein Sonatina, arundodonuts. But always on the look out for repertoire, especially if not played much here. How are you liking it?

complete newbie here, and a quick question if I may poke my head round the door. I have the clari, flute and cornet versions of learn as you play and rather like them, and am wondering how the oboe version is rated by oboists or if a different tutor book is preferred. I realise that the book used depends on its suitability to the player, just curious as to which others are used.

I'll post them tomorrow (if I can find them again).


I think the problem is not so much being English or French or Spanish or whatever but having someone who does not share your mother tongue explaining things to you. This was really clear to me in my lesson last week when my teacher got me to blow without anything in my mouth (neither reed nor oboe) while saying "t-t-t-t". He demonstrated but my attempt sounded nothing like his. The difference was strking to both of us but all he could say was that I wasn't doing a "proper" "t" and all I could do was maintain that I was. I did know that a French t is dental and the English t is alveolar but this didn't seem sufficient to explain the huge difference. It was only after reading something on the internet this week that I realised that the real problem was that the English t in initial words is also aspirated and that gets in the way of clear tonguing because you momentarily block the air. The BDRS article suggests using "L-L-L" with your finger in front of your mouth to get the feel of a constant air-flow, so I have been starting with L and then trying to turn it into t without breaking the airflow.

Something I discovered in another article is that English speakers have a tendancy to diphthong all tense vowels making them inherently unstable so when he wants me to make a French "o" sound, instead of having something more fixed I end up with something even more unstable than it usually is. The ridiculous thing is that I teach English phonetics and I actually tell my students that in English they have to speak with a more mobile, lips, jaw and tongue and forget about French precision so you would have thought I could have applied the reverse to myself without needing somebody to point it out to me

Similarly with the French "u," English speakers either diphtong it (as in the English word "pew") or raise the back of the tongue instead of the front (as in the English word "too") which does result in a stable shape but restricts the air-flow.

This tendency to diphthong everything, and to raise the back of the tongue, explains why a lot of English teachers tell their pupils to open their throats by yawning rather than by using a particular vowel shape.

Edit for Louise, my teacher uses Learn as you play with all his students in France so I used it when I first started and liked it.

Thanks Roseau, I'll stick with that book then.

I've got it too. I think you'll blast through it quite quickly, though, if you spend much time on the oboe. I only used it by myself in parallel to a similar method that my teacher gave me and quite quickly moved on to other stuff. I think having had a basic grounding on other wind instruments helps a lot.

What you will need to spend more time on is embouchure, sound and so forth as well as adapting to different fingering. It would be good to have a teacher for those things that the method book can't adequately teach you, or at least some oboist friend who can help you out a bit.

This is really interesting. I hope I can get my hands on that article some time...

Being a linguist myself, albeit a long time ago, you'd think I could also have worked out more for myself.

I'd never thought about the French T being dental. The Spanish one is usually described as "denti-alveolar" but also not aspirated. I can see that the aspiration would make more difference than where the T is actually produced - so you get a particularly hard attack with an English T I presume.

I do think that tongue direction (dental, alveolar, or something else) is an element in some articulations, such as legato tonguing. Or maybe it's more helpful to think about which bit of the tongue touches the reed? Must go away and have another try...

I hadn't thought, either, about the effect of ubiquitous dipthonging in English on the stability of musical sound. Spanish uses quite "pure" vowels so it's not such an issue and "o" is also the usual instruction here too. I don't think I'm translating into English when receiving instructions from my teacher but I'd better pay attention in the future to whether it's creeping in and we're not actually understanding each other...

There's not much point in me trying to have any conversation with him about it, however. He's definitely started term with some determination to stop me intellectualising too much. Or talking at all...

Thanks katica, am hoping to get an occasional lesson in to look at the areas you mentioned. Have borrowed the learn as you play from the library, just need the oboe now!

Er. Well I've opened it!!

I'll report when I've had a go.

I was hoping to get a good few hours practice in today and tomorrow but have a horrible cold.

Aw, hope you feel better soon I've made some noise with a reed today and browsed musicroom for possible books......

That's a really good way to start. My teacher started me without an oboe (I didn't have one anyway), just trying to get nice, stable long notes on the reed alone.

I started on a US method equivalent to Learn as You Play and then moved on to Rubank (popuar in the US). Then I bought the Gekeler Method (also popular in the US but my teacher didn't know it). Book II has been more useful than Book I. Hinke is popular in the UK and a good equivalent.

One of the things I bought for fun early on and really enjoyed for a break was Pam Wedgwood's Really Easy Jazzin' About. A couple of these pieces come up in the early grade exams. I also bought a CD from Howarths with easy pieces, which also come with accompaniment tracks, called Ready, Steady, Blow. To tell the truth, I'm not that fond of the sound of some of the young oboists but it was a useful purchase anyway. Two or three pieces from Learn as You Play are included.

Another purchase with accompaniment CD that I bought fairly early on was a Music Minus One edition by oboist Elaine Douvas. After just a few months I was playing some of these pieces. Goodness knows how I sounded but ignorance was bliss - I didn't know it but some of the pieces that seemed quite manageable to me are in fact on the G5 syllabus. These days I seem to be much more easily scared off stuff I should be able to play because I am all too aware how really horrible it sounds...

Happy tooting, Louise.

PS Another reason for seeing a teacher from time to time is to have your reeds adjusted. It really makes a big difference to how well and easily they play. Even good quality handmade bought reeds can vary quite a lot and they change as you play them. You'll probably want softish ones to begin with, just like on the clarinet.

hope you feel better soon. My practice plans were scuppered today as well. I was planing to take advantage of having the house to myself and have a nice long session this afternoon. Instead I ended up spending all afternoon/ early evening in bed with a migraine.

Oh well, maybe tomorrow.

Sounds like your making a good start Louise, I would definitely echo the need to get a good oboe specialist teacher. I started with a general woodwinder and it was not a good idea. You need someone to help you with reeds, it really does make all the difference - they need a lot more adjustment/ playing around with than clarinet ones.

Oh no.

I hope it subsides soon. Migraines are the worst thing for disrupting oboe playing!

I took a break Thursday-Friday. Long oboe sessions on Tuesday and Wednesday left my lower abdomen so sore that I was very pathetic in pilates class on Thursday (taking it very gently) and decided it needed a rest. I don't know how on earth I survived that week in January. Roseau must be right and it was pure adrenalin that got me through. I suspect it will still be a few months before I get back to normal stamina.

You have my sympathies flobiano, migraines are awful things

I will see a teacher as often as I can, there's just no way I can commit to regular lessons unfortunately.

Thanks for the book suggestions katica I can see a trip to the music shop coming on to have a look

Katica and Flobiano: hope your health improves soon

For Katica (and anyone else who's interested), links to two articles about French articulation and recorders:
http://ranumspanat.com/html%20pages/tu_and_ru.html
http://ranumspanat.com/html%20pages/laurin.html
These are the two open access ones that I found the most interesting.

Louise, I too second what everyone else has said, an oboe teacher is vital at the beginning for reeds. Having a reed that works for you makes an unbelievable difference. When you first start you won't know if it is you or the reed that is causing problems but an oboe teacher will. They will also know what sort of reed will suit you as it is all very personal and someone else's favourite reed may not suit you at all.

As Katica said, because you can read music and play another wind instrument, you will probably get through Learn as You Play quite fast but (from having done this myself) I think there is a danger of going too fast. There are some oboe specific fingering problems (like the half hole for D) which you need to spend some time learning to do correctly. The Raina East book (called something like Technical Exercises) has short scale and arpeggio studies in each key as well as a couple of other studies on more general "problems" (ie low notes / high notes / bringing out a melody line etc.) which I found useful for consolidating things in the early stages.

One of the most useful things you can do (which doesn't need any books) is lots of long tones and also a slow scale (chromatic or major) making sure each note sounds like the preceeding note tonewise.

Thanks for all the advice, it's greatly appreciated. Need to find a teacher who is willing to give occasional lessons now.

Apologies for absence in recent weeks.
My 92 yr old Mother has been in hospital since Dec 30th in Sussex, so haven't had too much time or energy to devote to discussion board. Anyhow, did manage to play in the Egham concert yesterday, which was great fun & I was fortunate to be accompanied by Benjy, who did a grand job.

Best of luck louise1712 with the oboe - it's a great instrument, & allows release of emotions as it is so expressive. A few people commented yesterday on the soulfulness of my playing!

Hope you're soon fully fit again Katica & that everyone else manages to shake off/keep at bay all the nasty bugs doing the rounds.

Thanks Hardying, glad you managed to get to Egham yesterday

I've got my first oboe lesson on Friday

Excellent.

Sorry to hear about your Mother.

Glad you were able to get to, and enjoy, Egham. What did you play?




Hope you enjoy it!

Thanks, lots of talk about reeds on the telephone when we arranged the time...... Am borrowing a Buisson student oboe, anyone know anything about these, there doesn't seem to much info when I googled them????

[quote name='flobiano' date='Feb 21 2012, 06:15 PM' post='1130337']
[Sorry to hear about your Mother.

Glad you were able to get to, and enjoy, Egham. What did you play?

Thanks Flobiano

I played Andantino by Cherubini & Andante Cantabile from Solo de Concert no 4 by Verroust.

Both lovely pieces & the 2nd one is great for concerts.

Afraid I've not hear of a Buisson student oboe, Louise 1712, but hope you enjoy learning the oboe.

Take Care everyone XX

You'll get used to lots of talk about reeds amongst oboe players - some seem to talk about nothing else . They are, however, extremely important and vary between responsive and easy to play to tough as old boots and a nightmare to play. This is where experienced teachers are so important.

Google doesn't produce much about Buisson oboes, but I hope your teacher finds you a better condition one than this!

Well, the photo I've seen of it, it does look to be in better condition than that one! It's rather a concern though not to be able to find much info on them.

As for reeds, well, I thought finding good clari reeds was tricky, it sounds even trickier for oboes Ah well, that's teachers worry, at least to start with

It was great to meet you at Egham Hardying and I thought your playing was lovely. Sorry to hear about your Mother.