Dear all,


I have a question, which may seem for many among you a bit trivial. In french/latin system, the music notes are named as "DO RE MI FA SOL LA SI" whereas in English system they are named as "A B C D E F G".

What I would like to ask, is that, is it really an obligation? I mean, if you are preparing to pass a solfege exam in an English speaking country, are you bound to say "A B C D E F G" while reading notes or you may be allowed to sing them as french/latin system by "DO RE MI FA SOL LA SI"? I started learning solfege according to french/latin system and today I feel that I really have difficulty to sing the notes other way (well, it's a matter of habit !)

Thank you very much for your attention.


Kind Regards,
Dariyoosh

I'm a Kodály specialist and we use 'relative solfa' or 'moveable do' system. So our solfège teaching and exams use any note as do. We DO also use letter names. Relative solfa is great for transposition - for example, a student might sing 'so-la-so-do' in the key of D and then sing it with letter names (A-B-A-D) and then sing the same motif in G do, then singing the letter names D-E-D-G.

I'm not sure if I'm answering your question! If you are referring to AB aural tests, it is my understanding that you can sing solfa (whether fixed do or moveable). I guess you could probably sing letter names if you wanted..

I think you need to be a little clearer as to what you mean by a solfège exam. If you are talking about a written theory exam then I think you would be expected to use the letter names - certainly the questions and instructions on the paper will use the letter names.

If you are talking about the aural part of the ABRSM practical as in Grades 4 and 5 for example, where you have to sight sing a number of notes then you can use the French note names because they don't mind what you actually sing. My pupils when taking these exams sing the French syllabic names. I would imagine that applies to any sight singing test where the important thing is to get the pitch right and what you actually sing in terms of syllables matters less. However it might be as well if one of the singers on the forums tried to help if you are talking about a singing exam.

You may know the following but I will try to explain anyway in case you don't.

Letter names represent fixed pitched - that is to say "C" is alwyas "C" - what you call do.
But there does exist in english speaking countries a system of note names called "tonic solfa" which a lot of people confuse with the latin system. This system uses the syllables doh ray me fah soh lah te doh but it is what we call "moveable solfa" That is to say that "doh" represents the first note of the scale so is always the tonic, ray represents the second note of the scale and so on.

Examples ; French: do majeur ; do ré mi fa sol la si do
English: C major : C D E F G A B C
Moveable solfa : doh ray me fah soh lah te doh

French: sol majeur : sol la si do ré mi fa dièse sol
English: G major : G A B C D E F sharp G
Moveable solfa : doh ray me fah soh lah te do


The advantage of the anglo saxon double system is that you have a system for fixed pitch



so you know which particular note you are taliking about but you also have a system in which the names of the solfa notes always produce the same interval. In practice the fixed pitch names are indispensable for instrumentalists but the solfa names are extremely useful for singers and for aural tests.

I don't know if any of this helps. If not, post again and I or someone else will try again to help.

Dear Cyrilla and Aquarelle

Thank you very much both of you for your attention to my question.

Kind Regards,
Dariyoosh

Er - only when the piece is major!

Have I made a glorious mistake?
Please explain Cyrilla because if I have I had better go back to the drawing board!!!!

Ewww...sorry, Aquarelle!!

In relative solfa, la is the tonic...just as so would be the tonic in a piece that is either so pentatonic or Mixolydian.

Umm...does this make sense??

Well, yes and no. I never got into solfa for pentatonic or Mixolydian mode, but what you say about lah being the tonic now rings a bell and sent me scurrying to my old O Level (antediluvian) stuff!!. I have a very vague recollection of having been taught that there were two versions of solfa names for minor keys. I think we were told that one used “relative minor solfa” and the other “tonic minor solfa”. I also have the vaguest recollection (you see how you have dragged the old neurones from years back into action) of arguing with my best friend about which was easiest to use. Anyway I looked up in an old Annie Warburton Book and found tonic minor solfa names for C harmonic minor and they were:

doh ray maw fah soh law te doh

Now to me, that seems logical because one has just flattened the third and sixth notes and you can superimpose these names on any harmonic minor tonality.

I didn’t quite understand what you were saying about lah becoming the tonic. Obviously it is the tonic of the relative minor but that would make the harmonic minor solfa names

lah te doh ray me fa se lah (maybe – not sure if I am right here – correct me if I am not)

These of course can also be superimposed on any harmonic minor tonality. (Ah so perhaps I do understand you after all, says she, thinking aloud.)

So are my memories right – do there exist two different versions? Is there any argument for using one rather than the other?

Ah - glad to have got the old neurones up and running !!

Yes, you're right about the two possibilities for minor solfa. Kodály people use the relative minor one - yes, for harmonic minor we use la ti do re mi fa si la.

This way HAS to be the best !!!

It just makes SO much sense - the do remains the same in the relative major/minor - eg F is do, D is la and so on. This made relative minors all click into place so easily for me...

Personally I find the tonic minor clumsy and awkward and it doesn't express the relativity at all (although I can see what you're saying about the flattened 3rd and 6th).

So HOORAH for relative solfa !

What I meant about modal/pentatonic tonalities is that whatever the finalis is determines the tonality..

Starting to lose the plot here through tiredness so I'll stop now before I confuse myself, let alone you!

Light has dawned!!!!

Thank you Cyrilla. I now have to admit that my best friend (who is still my best friend after all these years) was right as she was for relative and I at the time was for tonic. I stand corrected!!


Cheers!

Awwww!!!! Glad to have helped light to dawn!!!