Hi there. I'm completely new to this and so this might sound like a stupid question.

Basically, I've had a piano for years but never had a lesson. I started lessons about 10wks ago, 1/2 hr every 10days or so. We started on grade 5 and I learned each abrsm piece by the time I had the next lesson. My teacher was very enthusiastic, so she asked me to pick a Bach prelude/fuge randomly and start it. I started one and have been learning it for 3 wks now. The problem is I can only play the first half of it VERY slowly hands together. What I'd like to know is
- how do I know if this piece is too difficult for me and when to give up?
- Wouldn't it be better to learn multiple easier pieces per fortnight than one piece that takes 2 months to learn to play very well?
- Do you think there is any danger in attempting a piece that is too hard?
I'm just finding it very frustrating, but because I've only just started lessons, I don't know what the norm is. How long do you typically expect to spend 'learning' a piece??

Thanks!

Sounds like your teacher has found something at a level to start stretching you.
If you were really completing grade 5 pieces in less than a fortnight then maybe they were not all that challenging. It would take me longer than that to learn a piece at grade 5 level and I have grade 8!
It usually takes me more than two months to get things learned.... it can take longer than that just to get the notes reasonably well known.
There's no one right answer to how long it takes but I'm not surprised that the Bach is taking longer, especially if this is the first time you've played a prelude and Fugue.

Talk to your teacher about it. Also I think that most people tend to have 2 or 3 pieces on the go once. If you are only working on one then I'd ask your teacher about learning some shorter/easier things alongside the Bach to balance things out.

There's certainly no danger, if anything it will do you good to be stretched, however bear in mind that if a piece is too hard it might lower your spirits or confidence. It's good to play pieces that challenge you, but playing pieces that are too hard for you can make you really stop enjoying the piano too.

Good luck, and enjoy the challenge!

Disclaimer: I'm not a professional teacher.

I did something similar to my other half inadvertently. I am teaching him to play the piano, and I gave him a Grade 5 piece thinking it was Grade 3. (He has some musical experience so he can read music, he just can't play the piano).

It took him three months to be able to play through it with both hands slowly (It was the Bach two-part invention No 8 in D minor). At the same time he was doing some simpler pieces that took a couple of weeks to learn, each. My intention was to give him pieces of different difficulty so that he would have different things to work on- I just didn't intend the difference in difficulty to be that great.

Based on his experience:

* It did not do him any harm to learn something that was "too hard". In fact, I am wondering what the definition of "too hard" is based on this. If he had been totally unable to comprehend the piece or put it together, I would have thought it was too hard. But he was able to play more of it every week, so I could see progress being made. Based on this, I think that something is too hard only if the student is struggling and makes no progress over time.

* That said, there is danger in attempting something "too difficult" if the student gets frustrated. This may obviously vary with the student's temperament and age.

* Learning the Bach, difficult though it was, made a big difference to his other pieces. There were some weeks where he said that he'd spent most of the week practicing only the Bach. When I asked him to play the other pieces in lessons, even though he hadn't practiced them very much, there was still considerable improvement.

I do not think that there is a norm for how long to spend on a piece. I've spent most of the last two months learning one piece; the Debussy Toccata. It took me seven weeks to learn the first seven pages. I spent an average of an hour a day playing this piece only. Is that too much? I don't know- I'm still progressing, and I'm not bored, so I'm doing all right I think.

If you're learning the piano for pleasure and not for academic study (where I'd say breadth of study is important), then I think you should be free to play whatever you want subject to what your teacher advises!

Are you frustrated because you find the Bach too difficult and you are struggling to understand it, or are you frustrated because you don't know how long you "ought" to take to learn it? I think if you are happy to make progress slowly, you're doing OK.

Good luck!

So I am assuming that you have been teaching yourself up until recently?

I would have a chat with your teacher and perhaps consider adjusting the level of piece you are tackling.

Sometimes a teacher can over-estimate the level of student's capabilities in the first few lessons, and end up giving them things that are a bit too challenging. You might benefit from taking a step back, and working through some easier pieces that you can learn in a few weeks, rather than struggling with your current piece. Have you already worked your way through some basic tutor books and easier pieces at earlier grade levels? Have you played some easier Bach pieces eg 2 and 3 part inventions? It is hard to know from your post what level you were starting from. Diving into grade 5 out of the blue seems a bit ambitious, but then, you may already have plenty of experience - I'm just guessing here - we need more info!

Thanks for all the comments. Everything said seems very sensible. I think I'm fairly atypical, in that I've taught myself over 7ral years, working up from very basic lesson books to song books. I can play songs in most of the keys etc. However, I've never studied scales/exercises/arpegios etc. I think I could fool a non-player into thinking I'm very good by playing a few pieces, but this would be exposed very easily by someone who knows the piano. I think initially my teacher was quite impressed by me. I did learn 3 grade 5 pieces in 3 weeks to possible distinction level according to her, but since then I think I'm stalling. I think the problem is that because I've taught myself, my skills are all over the place. I can play in difficult keys, but ask me to play the most simple arpegio and I'm like a beginner. I have no cord knowledge. I struggle immensly with nerves because I've never played in front of anyone, which makes lessons difficult.

I guess I'm just finding it difficult knowing what pieces might suit... but this sounds like a universal problem. I am enjoying the piece I'm learning and I am making (slow) progress, so I'll stick with it, and speak to my teacher next time to see if we can agree on something!

Taking the question literally: it takes forever to learn a piece, because no matter how well you think you know it there is always more to learn.

Personally I can memorize two or three pages of quite difficult music in a couple of days if I really have to have to (it takes 18 hour days working at it to do it!) - but I don't feel really confident to present a piece in public unless I have been working on it for at least a year - and often enough, not even then.

Variety is the key.

To stop yourself getting bored always have a few pieces at different levels on the go.

Don't forget to have some music you really love and can play easily on standby, just for the joy of playing it.

In regards to 'difficult' music........ when I was 18 my teacher gave me a diploma piano piece just after I took grade 7. I got so frustrated as when it came to problem areas I had no skill base to fix them on my own. Consequently hours at the piano became a nightmare, and I never took my grade 8.

Many years later I am finally (!) doing my grade 8! My understanding of music and how it works is at a stage where if there is a problem I know how to deal with it. The biggest challenge I found though, was my fingers were not 'fit' enough to deal with long runs and arpeggios, or with the stamina of performing 3 long pieces. Needless to say when I started doing my scales properly (not the half hearted effort that I used to do), it all started falling into place.

So, to make it more enjoyable, find out a bit about the hard piece you're studying, but don't let it consume you. It will take time, but it will improve your overall skill level. Don't rush it and good luck!

Thanks for further info - now I know roughly where you are at!

SOunds like you have achieved a reasonable level of proficiency, but your technical and theoretical knowledge is lagging behind. You would learn a lot and really benefit from working through a good scales manual and some technical exercises

I like Dozen a day - suggest you start with book 2 or 3. Once you have learnt the exercises in C major, and have got to grips with other scales and keys, try transposing them into as many other keys as you can.

Suggest this scales manual as it is very thorough and gives you lots of suggestions for different ways to play scales and arpeggios. It also includes cadences - really useful for pieces.

Your teacher will no doubt have lots of other suggestions. Don't try to do it all at once - tackle it in bite sized pieces!

Brilliant... thanks. I've just ordered the above!

It seems to take me a fortnight to get the basic gist of a simple 1 or 2 page Grade 5-ish piece, then anything from another 2 weeks to another 3 months to get it up to a performable standard! I've had a few exceptions that seem to have sunk in very quickly, but also those that refuse to sink in at all (even some Gr2 or 3 pieces)

Yes, Solari I have the same sort of thing, ~ I dont know how long it takes me to learn a piece, it does really depend on each piece.

a piece with a lot of staccato can take me ages ( playing down on my over weight keys)
Me and teacher only go through exam pieces unless I state I want to learn something thats in my weak area.

Im doing grade 3 but can play some grade 5 pieces relatively well ~Schumanns gluckes genug is one I need to improve ~ incredible piece ! Tchaikovsky`s op 40 No.2 another great piece ~ both pieces have some jumps with the hands. both very grand powerful pieces.

Gulp, taking advice from me can get pretty expensive - I'm a very bad influence!!