I'm very excited as I am currently waiting for the arrival of a 22 string Celtic Harp from Florida. I decided I wanted to learn a second instrument and being a Piano Player and also half Welsh, I decided to opt for the Harp. I've always loved its sound and also I was interested in the immediacy of contact to the music e.g. fingers on the actual strings where the sound comes from. I have done a lot of research on the internet and feel that it is an instrument that I will enjoy learning and may find quite easy to play as I can see the similarities with the piano. i.e. the music is the same and the basic layout of strings is similar. I really want to just learn to play some nice simple Celtic Folk Tunes and not take any exams or advance further onto a Pedal Harp. It's really to be more of a therapeutic, hobby type of instrument that takes me in another direction than the piano.
Does anyone have any tips and advice on the Celtic Harp to give me?


I bought this particular model [see picture above]because it was inexpensive and I didn't want to spend too much at first.
Thanks for any input

Gae

I play, though not very well. As a pianist you will probably take to it quite well. Sylvia Woods' book (Take up the Harp, or How to play the Harp, or something... maybe... I'm not at home and I have forgotten the title!!) is pretty good.

I've found it quite hard, but I am an indifferent pianist and I've never had lessons or really practised very much! It's worth having a few lessons to check you're not making any drastic problems with technique.,.. to get the best sound you do have to get the plucking right, also if you are doing it correctly it helps with not having too much movement away from the strings - the natural tendency is to pluck outwards from the harp, but I was taught to pluck in a way that uses the fingers as sort of levers and you end up not moving your hand, just your fingers, and you end up with your fingers not too far from the strings to pluck the next phrase. It's not easy to explain it... a decent book will have clear pictures which will help a good deal, and even one lesson from a good teacher will set you on the right road.

Check out Commun na Clarsach for information, I also went on a harp weekend of theirs once and it was really really good - I loved it and learned eversuch a lot.

Um.

I can't think of anything else off the top of my head but would be happy to (try and) help if I can, so if you think of anything to ask...

p.s. if I can find some decent batteries to make my camera work, I could take pics of what I mean by the hand position and maybe that will help. looking forward to hearing how you get on!!

I am working on my harp grade 8 after taking harp exams for two years. I love the harp and am glad to hear of someone else interested in it. I am 14 .I have the very same model harp you pictured here. It is good for beggining harpists and ''hobby harpists''. I would not,however,reccomend it for serious study. Good luck with your harping adventures!! !!!

Thanks Sara-Flute....the Sylvia Woods' book you mentioned is actually included with the Harp I'm buying and so I'm sure that will give me a lot of help. I'm expecting the Harp to arrive in the next week or so and I'm getting obssessed with Harps already..surfing the NET for as much info as possible. I think I have the website you mentioned bookmarked. The main problem I can see coming up against is having to play the melody backwards so to speak with my right hand. I'm a bit confused as to the correct way to hold the harp too. I read somewhere that the Harp goes over the left shoulder and you play the higher melody notes with the left hand. In a video I have of Victoria Lynn Schultz playing "Londonderry Air" she has the harp over her right shoulder and is clearly plaing the melody notes with the right hand. This is the position I would prefer as it seems closer to the piano playing position.
I have already started to put together some easy/moderate folk tunes from my various piano books. Because this Harp is only 3 Octaves (22 strings... Lowest note is C below middle C and highest is C 2 octaves above Middle C) I have been transposing these pieces to fit into that range of notes. So far I have prepared the following Folk tunes either into a new key or kept them as they were originally:-

1)Abide with Me (C major)
2)Black is the colour of my true loves hair (D minor)
3)Loch Lomond (C major and also Eb major an octave higher than as written in the original Eb key)
4) Morning has broken (F major)
5)Now the day is over (G major)
6)Sakura (Cherry Blossoms) (E minor)
7)Sun of my soul (F Major)
8)Sweet Molly Malone (F and C major)
9)Twelfth of Never (Bb major)
10)Londonderry Air (F major)
11)Sir Thomas Fairfax's March (C major)
12)Branle de Bourgogne (C Major)
13)Barbara Allen (C major)
14)Simple Gifts (F Major)
15)Adew-Dundie (D minor)
15)Ungarescha (D minor)

That should keep me going for a while!!

Gae

Some advice hey????

Dont !!!

QUOTE (baroquebassoon @ Dec 26 2004, 08:59 PM)

Some advice hey???? Dont !!!

Very encouraging there...

QUOTE (baroquebassoon @ Dec 26 2004, 08:59 PM)

Some advice hey???? Dont !!!

Why not?!?

Because it's very difficult for some people to get under their chins - perhaps the original author of the quoted post?

I'm not harping on or anything, it must be one of the most beautifully restful instruments to play...I see no pedals so is it chromatic? Don't those instruments usually have 37 strings?

Interesting and very nice.

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Dec 27 2004, 02:07 PM)

Because it's very difficult for some people to get under their chins - perhaps the original author of the quoted post?

ha ha very funny............even when I was 8 I had no problem with my chin. It really comes to rest near your ear-- and a pedal harp has 47 strings and seven pedals. indeed interesting and VERY NICE. a lever harp like the one pictured is not chromatic-there are levers used to tighten or loosen the string to change the pitch of the note.If the string is tuned right,it should result in a change of a half-step.risky process. sorry if this is too much info-I am in love with the harp.

QUOTE (jasbeth @ Dec 27 2004, 03:10 PM)

a lever harp like the one pictured is not chromatic-there are levers used to tighten or loosen the string to change the pitch of the note.If the string is tuned right,it should result in a change of a half-step.risky process. sorry if this is too much info-I am in love with the harp.

Always interested to learn new things - the lever harp has one lever per string? So if you want to change F to F# across the compass, you have to set the levers on each f# separately? (Not like a pedal that changes all Fs to F# or Fb at the same moment.)

I often wonder why the cross-strung never caught on. Maybe because you can't play those nice glissandi except in C. But there's no mechanism to maintain or anything, and the composer doesn't have to rewrite things to be harp-friendly. Perhaps because there's no complicated mechanism, they seem cheaper than pedal harps. No matter, as you say the sound is beautiful.
(The music specially written for the chromatic harp does have something about it. Very limpid. .. Actually, it isn't unlike a moonlit woohoo )

Um...were you already an angel or does that come as part of your training? Your AB exams?

On this particular smaller and cheaper "Celtic" harp, each string has a lever on the other side for sharpening. Apparently you can play in any key by setting the levers appropriately. At first, I thought that the notes could only be sharpened but I found out recently that you can use them for flats as well. This can be done as follows. Taking the E string as an example, if the the E string lever is put in its up position during the tuning process and the string is tuned to E then by lowering the lever it drops the string to Eb. The same can be done with B and A as well of course for the Keys of Bb and Eb and so on for other keys. I'm not sure whether the levers can be moved in mid-performance when modulations occur.... I'm sure that will be one of the things I discover as I start to practice and learn on it. Thinking about this principle, I will probably set the E and B strings with levers up because I cant see myself playing in the key of C# major (E# and B#) and so it will be handy to just flatten these levers when playing in F and Bb, without having to retune the strings.
See, I'm learning already!!
A lot of the "Folk" tunes that I intend to play stick within the key signature anyway so I'll probably transpose all the music to play in a particular favourite key...Eb for example. The amazing difference I've realised with the Harp from the Piano is that once the levers are set to the key, you only have to play and read the notes in the Key of C without having to make the sharps yourself. That should make playing a lot easier as an F string (for example) will always be an F string even when playing F# as the pre-set lever will see to that. I'm sure there are many other difficulties to be found though that compensate for this.

Gae

QUOTE (jasbeth @ Dec 25 2004, 11:20 PM)

I am working on my harp grade 8 after taking harp exams for two years. I love the harp and am glad to hear of someone else interested in it. I am 14 .I have the very same model harp you pictured here. It is good for beggining harpists and ''hobby harpists''. I would not,however,reccomend it for serious study. Good luck with your harping adventures!! !!!

Hey, do you have a pedal harp? I've got a 34 string lever harp that's tuned to Eb major, so if the piece is in C major you have the E, A and B levers up. I'm kind of a permanent beginner at the harp - I had lessons for a year or so when I was 7/8ish, and then stopped because I got fed up with the teacher. I then had lessons again for a year when I was 12 (same teacher) and haven't had lessons since (I'm nearly 16 now). I still play but I haven't progressed very far, mainly because I concentrate on the piano and cello, but I have a little (easy) repertoire for when I need it. I really really want a pedal harp, and all the music I manage to find seems to be for the pedal harp Do you think a pedal harp is all that much better, or maybe I've made myself believe that? And also, if the key is Ab major (4 flats), how would I make a D flat without using the C string? Lol as you can tell I'm not that great.

However I played on Christmas Day for 3 hours at a hotel, for £50/hour! And I'm doing the same on New Year's Eve. And I was paid £40 for one hour the other week. I want to do weddings but I have no idea what type of music to play. Any suggestions?

I want to find another teacher - my old one was a wonderful performer bt an extremely unreliable teacher, and it took 1.5hrs to get there, and another 1.5hrs home again. There aren't any in the area so there doesnt seem much hope. I'm not sure if I ever got a pedal harp if I would be able to learn how to do it myself.

Sorry for the bombardment, but haven't any harp friends lol. Where abouts do you live?

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Dec 27 2004, 03:45 PM)

lol, sounds like me - the permanent beginner thing.

most lever harps are tuned in Eb as it gives the most useful range of keys - Eb mj to E mj. you could do other keys by re-tuning, or by changing the lever mid-piece! the new AB lever harp syllabus goes up to Grade 8, but above grade 2 (I think) it is assumed that your harp will be tuned in Eb (re scales etc). and yes, you have to set the lever on each string individually. you can play a gliss in any key, as long as you have set your levers up right. playing a piece in a minor key might require mid-piece lever changes though. lever harps usually have 34 strings or less, the ones that I have met, anyway! they do tend to be somewhat less expensive than pedal harps I believe.

changing the semitone levers isn't at all risky if you have decent levers. good levers on a good harp will up the pitch by a semitone, and the tone will be perfectly in harmony with the rest of the harp. one sets the key before starting the piece.



This is my harp, or rather a picture of a harp as near identical to mine as two instruments are likely to be.



This shows where the levers come on a lever harp.




The levers shown seperately. (these are a less usual type of levers made by the guy who made my harp. they are becoming more widespread)



This is a drawing of different systems of levers. I include it because it sort of shows how they work, a little!



This shows the systems used by various manufacturers.

on a lever harp tuned to Eb would would either have to re-tune your harp (it will take some time to settle into the new tuning, how long probably depends on how good it is) or use the C string for Db.

oh I just found a good pick of a different tuning lever:



These appear to be the type you lift up to put the lever on, mine you flip them down.

Meg asked

QUOTE

And also, if the key is Ab major (4 flats), how would I make a D flat without using the C string?

Cant you do what I suggested with the E and B strings i.e. put the lever up on the D string and tune it to D? Then when you drop it back down, voila, it's Db!!

Sara-Flute, thanks for all those photos. That harp looks beautiful and is making me even more restless waiting for mine to arrive. I'm expecting it to arrive in the UK at the end of the week, but then I have to wait for it to get through customs. I dont know how long that might take!
Looking at the photos of the various levers, although I understand the principle of the bridge and string with regards to sharpening, I still can't see how it physically works in the diagrams. Maybe I'm just a bit thick!

For anyone looking for some Celtic Folk tunes, I found the following links which might be of interest!

Traditional Music
20,000 Folk Songs

Traditional Music
Free Music
Free Encyclopaedia...Harp
Harp Information

Gae

QUOTE (Gae @ Dec 27 2004, 10:37 PM)

Sarah-Flute, thanks for all those photos. That harp looks beautiful and is making me even more restless waiting for mine to arrive. I'm expecting it to arrive in the UK at the end of the week, but then I have to wait for it to get through customs. I dont know how long that might take! Looking at the photos of the various levers, although I understand the principle of the bridge and string with regards to sharpening, I still can't see how it physically works in the diagrams. Maybe I'm just a bit thick!

Gae is right - I think I made what I said a bit confusing. If you want to play in Ab, esp if it's going to be a regular thing, you tune your entire harp (with no levers "on") to Ab, ie all Es, Bs, As and Ds would be flat, and then you can play anything from Ab maj to A Maj. Otherwise, you would have to use the C string and sharp it each time you wanted Db.

Gae: the lever moves between the string and the harp and pushes hard on the string in the correct place, shortening the string and becoming a temporary "bridge".

On this one:



When you pull the lever up, that little metal rod comes up against the string to be the new bridge.

on this one:



the yellow dot is showing you where the string is, and the levers are attached to the wood as if it were a harp.

The ones where the levers are pushed away from you, from the point of view of looking at the pic, are "off" - the string is ringing free, at whatever pitch you initially tuned it. The string is passing unhindered between the harp and the lever.

The ones that are pointing up, are when the lever is "on" (which from the playing point of view is when you pull them down - it's a very weird angle photo and it's taken me some time to work this out even though they're just like my semitone levers!!!). The yellow dot - the string - is now right up against the side of the lever, and has been raised a semitone.

The drum levers, like the middle one here:



... work in a similar way to the first lever, except instead of a rod pushing the string outward, the round part of the lever has a raised section which swivels up and pushes the string sideways.

One of the reason Peter Brough's levers are becoming more popular is that they do not appreciably seem to move the string anywhere, which means that the strings feel the same whichever key you play them in. They are also held in place by the tension of the string, rather than by the friction of the pivot - if the string was removed, they would more or less move freely back and forth, so they are a good deal quick to flick than most. Lastly, they are cast brass, not any material which would dull the sound. He makes really fabulous harps - I've not come across any harp-knowledge-y person who hasn't been impressed with them (I am too, but I'm hardly an expert!!!) If you decide to take up the Clarsach seriously and you can afford it (or have relatives who can, like I did a long time ago - fortunately they were less than half the price they now are - at least they are a good investment as they will gain rather than lose value) then you really really should go down to try one out. lol. Like you need encouragement here... sorry You can have his levers attached to a different harp though, if you wished to upgrade in future and couldn't afford to buya whole new harp. You may find yours has been made with sensible levers anyway - some of the levers I've seen on lever harps have been very clunky and stiff... most of the better manufacturers these days are using a more modern and better style of lever.

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Dec 27 2004, 03:45 PM)

Um...were you already an angel or does that come as part of your training? Your AB exams?

What! I have ALWAYS been an angel. but I practice. in harp exams, once you pass G8 you are allowed to wear a halo.(wings are expensive these days) ( For anyone whose not creative that was ALL fiction)

QUOTE (jasbeth @ Dec 28 2004, 02:02 AM)

What! I have ALWAYS been an angel. but I practice. in harp exams, once you pass G8 you are allowed to wear a halo.(wings are expensive these days)                ( For anyone whose not creative that was ALL fiction)

Shame, I lost my halo a while back for rewriting a certain Beethoven Sonata into C# Major and calling it "the Sunshine". (Easy for you, all pedals down).

Oh never mind - halos are so difficult to brasso to keep shiny.

What a lovely idea - detachable wings! Presumably you have them dry-cleaned?

By the way, I did look up about chromatic harps. Seriously, not qualifying for angelship I wouldn't have to play pretty glissandi all the time so a chromatic is slightly cheaper. Strings are expensive though, aren't they?

R

um,yeah. It depends on if you want nylon(what gae's harp is strung with) or synthetic gut. most of the time harps upper strings are strung with nylon,because it streches easily and will not break as soon. sometimes whole harps are strung with nylon.(except,of course,for the wires at the bottom)I prefer gut to nylon even if it does fray because of its deep,rich sound. when the wires break on the lower registers it sounds like a gunshot. Those strings cost about $5 or$6 dollars apeice. why would you want to transpose a beethoven sonata into c sharp?? or do you live in a very bad section of boringville?

QUOTE (jasbeth @ Dec 28 2004, 06:48 PM)

why would you want to transpose a beethoven sonata into c sharp??  or do you live in a very bad section of boringville?

Just joking. I think the C#min Sonata (Moonlight) is one of his more sublime works - he had his good and bad days like everyone else, wrote that on a good day (or night). But the mood didn't last - he lost his temper (again) when he got to the 3rd movement and the neighbours were throwing a noisy party to which he hadn't been invited... hence the racket. People didn't often invite Beethoven to their parties.

Oh, bad section or what??? I live next to the Dormerville quarter which is bad. It's populated by robots who start up at 6am, fuel up (breakfast), catch a train to London, push papers and press "enter" buttons all day, talk vacuous talk, otherwise going around in their pre-programmed way. Between 5 and 7 pm they put their papers in a drawer ready for the next day, catch a train home, eat, wash, then get life's reward, WOW! - three hours in front of a little box with a flickering screen. It's supposed to make them think their lives are real. Then they go to bed and click into sleep mode until the timer boots them up at 6am again....etc etc...ad naus. .. The Matrix at its worst!!!

Unfortunately these people never see sunshine for most of their year - they go to work in darkness, return in darkness and work in offices with dark glass windows. So any chance to bring Sunshine to this unfortunate quarter is most welcome.

QUOTE

Oh, bad section or what??? I live next to the Dormerville quarter which is bad. It's populated by robots who start up at 6am, fuel up (breakfast), catch a train to London, push papers and press "enter" buttons all day, talk vacuous talk, otherwise going around in their pre-programmed way. Between 5 and 7 pm they put their papers in a drawer ready for the next day, catch a train home, eat, wash, then get life's reward, WOW! - three hours in front of a little box with a flickering screen. It's supposed to make them think their lives are real. Then they go to bed and click into sleep mode until the timer boots them up at 6am again....etc etc...ad naus. .. The Matrix at its worst!!!

Hehehe, well, where I live we have been invaded by big-money people from Boringville who have deicded they want to take over our village. (Basically build a million and one tiny houses to sell).

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Dec 29 2004, 09:27 AM)

Hehehe, well, where I live we have been invaded by big-money people from Boringville who have deicded they want to take over our village. (Basically build a million and one tiny houses to sell).

I live just out of bustling Birmingham. Ooh alliteration.

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Dec 29 2004, 09:19 AM)

Oh, bad section or what??? I live next to the Dormerville quarter which is bad. It's populated by robots who start up at 6am, fuel up (breakfast), catch a train to London, push papers and press "enter" buttons all day, talk vacuous talk, otherwise going around in their pre-programmed way. Between 5 and 7 pm they put their papers in a drawer ready for the next day, catch a train home, eat, wash, then get life's reward, WOW! - three hours in front of a little box with a flickering screen. It's supposed to make them think their lives are real. Then they go to bed and click into sleep mode until the timer boots them up at 6am again....etc etc...ad naus. .. The Matrix at its worst!!! Unfortunately these people never see sunshine for most of their year - they go to work in darkness, return in darkness and work in offices with dark glass windows. So any chance to bring Sunshine to this unfortunate quarter is most welcome.

ha ha sounds familar

I'm still waiting for my Harp to arrive!!
They said 7-10 working days and I'm just coming up to Day 10 now. I must be patient though between Xmas, Customs and other more important things going on in the world...like the Disaster Aid happening at the moment!! That must be effecting the post in one way or another.

Gae

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 2 2005, 05:36 PM)

I'm still waiting for my Harp to arrive!! They said 7-10 working days and I'm just coming up to Day 10 now. I must be patient though between Xmas, Customs and other more important things going on in the world...like the Disaster Aid happening at the moment!! That must be effecting the post in one way or another. Gae

And bank holidays around Christmas and New Year. Therefore, non-working days.

Presume it's coming by surface, Gae. Is it some kind of expedited service? Did the dispatch people in the States say 7-10 working days?

There's usually a bit of a hold up in HMCE around this time of year so... I do/did an amount of trade with the US.



I had a doll sent priority air mail. It took 5 days to get from California to Gatwick, and 7 days to do the last 11 miles to here. That's the UK for you.

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 2 2005, 06:31 PM)

I had a doll sent priority air mail.

why rhapsodin! I had no idea! how nice for you. (Joking,of course! )

QUOTE (jasbeth @ Jan 2 2005, 11:56 PM)

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 2 2005, 06:31 PM) I had a doll sent priority air mail. why rhapsodin! I had no idea! how nice for you. (Joking,of course! )

HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAHHh!

Oh boy, that'sll teach me! I sell them on - onnist! I said I do a bit of trade with the US of A and of the various articles, that was large and HMCE don't like large parcels hence delay.

I'd better change that post!!! (Won't affect what you quoted though). For the record, I do NOT play with dolls, I don't even HAVE a miniature woohoo for them to sit at. No, I do not. No!
I don't.
Nope

Okay?


More to the point, if Gae's instrument is coming Surface mail the normal time is 21-42 days, so I hope all is well.

Rhapsodin,
Yes, the people in the States (Florida to be exact) said 7-10 working days. They did, though, also make a point of saying that they dont know how long it would take through customs.. I'm a patient man though and I just know it will turn up when I've forgotten all about it and am least expecting it.

Gae

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 3 2005, 12:37 AM)

[  For the record, I do NOT play with dolls, I don't even HAVE a miniature woohoo for them to sit at.  No, I do not.   No!   I don't.   Nope   Okay?     Â

are you certain? do I detect a note of panic in your denial? ( )

QUOTE (jasbeth @ Jan 3 2005, 03:20 PM)

are you certain? do I detect a hint of panic in your denial?     ( )

They say that denial is a river in Egypt.

QUOTE (Helen @ Jan 3 2005, roughly 03:25 PM)

They say that denial is a river in Egypt.

Phewwwww, thank you, Helen. You got me off the hook nicely with that nifty little pun. I Nefertittered so much for ages (on both counts). (That's the Bhaast I can do at the mo).

QUOTE (jasbeth @ Jan 3 2005, 03:20 PM)

are you certain? do I detect a note of panic in your denial?     ( )

Yep, that was A flat* and it always makes me panic. Oh no, far worse, I've gone bitten my nails up to the armpits - now how am I going to practice tonight???
(*when the pedal gets stuck 3/4 way up)



Rhapso(Ich habe KEINE Puppen...nein nein nein, nyet!)din.
Voice off: Sei ruhig mein Kind...

Gae, good luck with your harp- some advice about your tuning plans. If you want your B string to be tuned to Bb with the lever unengaged, and B with the lever engaged, it is better practice and causes less wear to the string to tune the open string to Bb than to tune with the lever closed and same with the other strings. You may want an electronic tuner- they save a lot of hassle, mine is a Korg CA30 and cost £20. The levers on your harp may need sewing machine oil, and may need moving up or down to get an exact semitone, this is unfortunately one of the disadvantages of buying cheap. You will probably find your harp sounds best if you tune the harp to the key you will be playing in- if you are playing mostly in C don't always play with the B A and E levers engaged (cheap levers again- as opposed to outstandingly lovely ones like the Brough) and don't leave levers engaged when you put the harp away.

For playing remember it is the fingers not the arms/wrists which do the playing and to be patient with yourself to play each note slowly and beautifully always placing in advance which is very different from the piano rather than letting your musical ear race you through pieces at the speed they 'should' go.

Have fun- when the postal service deign to let you have it!

PS Don't be discouraged if Scarborough Fair in the Sylvia Woods book gives you grief- it is surprisingly tricky!

Erard, thanks for all your advice. I was thinking about the business with tuning up and dropping down and when I thought about it, I did think it wouldn't be very good practice as it would put extra pressure on the strings and/or lever. I will definately follow your advice and tune the B string to Bb and only use the levers for sharps. Thinking about it, I will probably do the same with the Eb and Ab when playing in Bb major and Eb major. I will also transpose a few of the pieces into a few of the more favourable keys e.g. C (easy to transpose into G and D..one and two levers up) F (Easy to transpose to Bb and Eb by flattening the Eb and Ab)
With regards the arrangement of "Scarborough Fair" in the Sylvia Woods book, although I will read the book with great interest, I am planning on doing my own arrangements of songs from the Piano versions that I have.
For the tuning, I have a Korg PXR-4 which has an onboard tuner plus I have various digital sources like a KN2000 Keyboard and Kurtzweill piano.

Gae

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 3 2005, 09:12 PM)

With regards the arrangement of "Scarborough Fair" in the Sylvia Woods book, although I will read the book with great interest, I am planning on doing my own arrangements of songs from the Piano versions that I have

Tuning the whole flat to Eb is the most usual, and if you plan to do exams you would have to after grade 2 anyway... ie B, A and E all flat along the whole harp.

Not to discourage you from doing your own arrangements, but those in the Sylvia Woods book are good and will help you learn the technique... till you have an idea what you can and can't do on the harp, and what works best... because although piano uses two clefs and two hands the same way the harp does, certain things are either a good deal easier or a good deal harder than they are on the piano. So I would recommend working through it first! I do agree, Scarborough Fair is quite tricky... it looks very simple, and especially if you're a pianist, it seems it should be easy, I remember finding it quite frustrating for a while!!

Sarah,
I have no intention of sitting any exams. The whole idea of taking up the Harp as a second instrument is to enjoy playing simple folk songs on an instrument known for its therapeutic and spiritual qualities. It is also an effort to re-discover the pleasures and difficulties of starting a new instrument. I have been playing the Piano for 25 years you see and I've reached a bit of a dead end. I can play most music with ease on the piano, but because of that, I have become a bit complacent about playing it. Also, as I teach it for six hours a day, I dont want to hear much more of the sound of a Piano outside of my job. I have no desire (or time) to practice it for hours and hours a day either, in an effort to learn more challenging pieces and so I am ready to try something different. Something that is enough of a difference to challenge me and keep me interested and yet still have certain similarities with the piano, allowing me to bring some of my hard earned knowledge into practice.
With regards to the arrangements, I will take your advice and consider the differences of Harp and Piano arrangements using Sylvia Wood's book for examples.

Gae

*nod* gotcha.

I think you chose a good instrument if that is your aim

You'll soon figure out what is and isn't easy to do, but I'm sure the book will help a good deal. Things like... hand crossing - that is easy on the hand because both your hands are free to roam the whole range of the harp without stretching weirdly or getting in each other's way. Whereas for instance changing key or accidentals are awkward.

I hope you really enjoy it! I'm really looking forward to hearing how you get on!

Sarah, while Eb is the most common tuning among 'classical' lever harp players in this country it is quite unnecessary if you never want to play in that key. Tuning in a key with more flats than necessary is a bad idea, particulary with lower quality levers which degrade the tone quality/tuning when engaged- and the levers on the Pakistani made harps are less than ideal!

Gae, good luck with the harp, if doing your own arrangements study the fingering rules carefully, they are not the same as piano, and many pianists trying my harp tend to 'hunt and peck' with a most peculiar finger selection!

QUOTE (erard @ Jan 4 2005, 12:11 PM)

Sarah, while Eb is the most common tuning among 'classical' lever harp players in this country it is quite unnecessary if you never want to play in that key.  Tuning in a key with more flats than necessary is a bad idea, particulary with lower quality levers which degrade the tone quality/tuning when engaged- and the levers on the Pakistani made harps are less than ideal!

obviously it isn't necessary if you don't want to play in the flat keys, just saying it's the most usual, it gives a useful range of keys, and it will probably be assumed with a lot of lever harp music - I also wanted to point out that it would be necessary for exams... turns out this isn't a consideration, but it could have been (I ain't no mind reader )- Gae can tune the harp to whatever seems best, I'm not dictating, just giving my opinion, k? personally I think that having B flattened is a good idea on any harp if you're planning to play music others have written - after all, F major is not exactly an uncommon key to put pieces in! only being able to go sharper is limiting. I also think that flat keys just seem to suit the harp better.

However if one is literally just playing one's own arrangements naturally you can tune the harp to the key or keys you plan to play in. (I don't believe I even said that Gae *should* do anything! - I just said it's the most usual) again, I'm not saying "you must", just giving my opinion and stating my experience of lever harps. don't claim to be an expert! I happen to like playing in Eb but maybe that's just me....

whatever you do tune it to, decide on it and then stick to it, rather than changing the tuning a lot while the soundboard settles - it should help it settle down quicker. definitely a good idea to tune the harp without the levers engaged, especially if you have an electronic tuner and can do it accurately. it's suggested doing it with the levers engaged in the Woods book but I never have unless I've been in a huge hurry for some reason. I don't know with a cheaper harp, though I expect it's the same principle, but you should hopefully find that if you tune it regularly then it will eventually settle enough to stay in tune for longer. it's also supposed to help the tone of the harp long-term if it is kept in tune especially when it is new. at first you'll probably find it goes out really quickly, especially after its long journey, but it should improve. playing it a lot may make it go out quicker, but I also have it on good authority that a harp that is played a lot will play better... I don't know if that's just wishful thinking though tuning is also affected by the strings, they do tend to stretch when they are first put on, so it takes a bit before they settle into something a little more stable.

if you can afford to, it's worth having spare strings and/or knowing exactly who you can phone to get replacements asap... when a string breaks, the tension that was on it is transfered to the strings either side, and that can cause them to break, then their tension is transferred and... not pretty. so it's worth finding out what type and lengths of string you need and having it handy somewhere so if necessary you can order strings quickly.

completely agree about not leaving the levers engaged when you put the harp away - or if you travel with it... or even to leave it standing looking pretty in the corner of your living room. also try not to expose it to lots of changes of temperature where possible, which can make it go out of tune much more quickly.

ps just a thought... I'm pretty sure that the Woods book as harmonics... try them out! they are very pretty and also terribly satisfying when you get one ringing clear as a bell. also experiment with plucking close to the soundboard... you get quick a different sound and it's interesting to experiment.

Thanks for all the info Sarah. I've thought about everything that has been said and I'll probably tune the Harp to either just C major or F to start with. I'll transpose the pieces into these easier keys at first. I prefer the flatted keys too but I know that a lot of Celtic music is arranged in D major. From C, I can easily get into G and D major at least. I probably will play everything in these easier keys while I'm learning. I'm understanding a bit why some Folk tunes in Minor keys like Greensleeves/Scarborough Fair etc dont use the the Dominant chord which would mean the raised leading note of the Harmonic minor scale having to be used. Possibly due to the modal quality of the music but also maybe because the instruments, like the harp, have difficulty switching between both the melodic and harmonic scales in a piece? I dont know, I'm guessing.
I will definately leave the levers off when travelling with it and I certainly will keep it's temperature under control. I realise that, just like a piano, the wood is affected a lot by changes in temperature.

All I need now is a Harp!!!
Now where is that Customs and Excises helpline phone number?.....

Gae

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 4 2005, 04:56 PM)

I'm understanding a bit why some Folk tunes in Minor keys like Greensleeves/Scarborough Fair etc dont use the the Dominant chord which would mean the raised leading note of the Harmonic minor scale having to be used. Possibly due to the modal quality of the music but also maybe because the instruments, like the harp, have difficulty switching between both the melodic and harmonic scales in a piece? I dont know, I'm guessing.

quite possibly - I'd never thought about it that way, but it seems logical.

some of the minor tunes adapted from folksongs, that are now used in harmonic minor, are arranged in harp books in the modal system sometimes, and it can be quite odd to hear when you're used to the adapted version!

awwww... I hope it arrives soon!!

Aaaaagh!!!!!
I missed Parcelforce Worldwide today who tried to deliver a parcel to my home. I wonder what it could have been? I'll have to try and re-arrange another delivery tomorrow, Tuesday.
I'm still trying to decide what keys to tune the Harp to. I'm a bit confused about the pitch/length of string v tension situation etc. I'm pretty new to all of this, but thats part of what makes learning a new instrument like the Harp so interesting. Is it a bad idea, for example to tune the E string to Eb if it is meant to be an E...i.e. is its length and position designed to be tuned to an E when positioned properly in the pegs or doesn't it really matter. Can nylon strings take a bit of rough treatment or is it best to stick to the same tuning? As you can tell, I'm a complete novice at all of this business.

Which would be the best way to set the Harp to start with?

1)Tune all strings to C major needing 1 and 2 levers to change to G and D majors.
2)Tune to F or B flat needing 1 and 2 levers to change to F and C
or
3) It all depends on what key you prefer to play in. It is best to keep to tune to one key, e.g. F and transpose the music instead.

Thanks again for any help.

Gae

Hmmm.

I'm no expert but...

I don't *think* that tuning an E string to Eb or the other way round should be a problem. I'll try and remember to have a look at my spare strings later and see what it actually says on the packet - whether I even have Eb strings or if they are Es that I tune flat.

I have good quality gut strings (might be synthetic gut? I really don't know. but Bow Brand) on my harp but I would not want to be regularly tuning them up and down semitones. As I understand it, it's best to stick to one tuning - the harp will "learn" the tuning, it will stay in tune better, and the strings stiffen as they age, so they will stay in tune better if they have not been too much fiddled around with.

What tuning you set it up to... probably depends what key/keys you are most likely to be playing in. One thing that might be worth an experiment - once you have a string in some kind of tune, try it with and without the lever engaged, and see how different the tone is. It it's massively duller with the lever engaged, then it would be worth finding a tuning where you can play most stuff with none of the levers engaged. If it's OK, then worry less on the sound front. If you plan to be sticking to quite a limited selection of keys, then probably tune it to the flattest of those keys. If you want the widest range, then you probably need to balance the usefulness of the range (ie tuning in Eb will give Eb major to E major, in Ab will give up to A major) against whether the levers are likely to wear the strings a lot and how much the sound is dampened by the levers. Did that make ANY sense??! If in doubt... well, choose a key you like and play everything in it for the moment!

I gave you the Scorhill website yesno? May be worth emailing Peter Brough or someone similar who really knows what they are talking about :-). There's another guy I'd recommend, only of course now I cannot remember his name... grrrrrrrrr.

If I think of anything else hopefully useful I shall let you know... and Erard may have some more useful tips. I hope you manage to get hold of your harp soon! Dying to know how you get on!!!

It doesn't really matter what you decide- I know people who play harps without any levers, and when they want to move from C to F tuning have no alternative but to retune all the B strings- I tend to do this on my hire out harp as I don't like the 'levers'. Even with levers, tuning to one key and then changing your mind occasionally shouldn't cause major settling problems- just expect to have to tune again the next day (I keep my lever harp in Eb, but sometimes go to Ab for a piece or two). The string length and thickness of harp strings is such that they can take a semitone pitch difference without distress, the lever positions may need very slight regulating depending on which key you choose- the likelyhood is that the levers won't be properly adjusted for anything when you get it. Your easiest option to start off would be to avoid the levers for the first little while, and play in one key for a month or so. Then when you have worked out how to hold the instrument comfortably, and the strings have stopped stretching, you will be in a better position to make longer term decisions according to what your music and harp need.

Sarah- Bow Brand strings are real gut (cow, most other brands seem to be sheep)- the Pakistani harps come with nylon- which takes longer to settle into tune. Gae, you would be well advised to tune your harp at least daily for the first month or more, whether you play it or not, to teach it to stay in tune- it will probably be very out of tune when you get it (don't even assume it is tuned to the right octave) and some of the pegs may need to be pushed (never hit) inwards to get the taper to fit properly and hold the string.

Let us know how it goes when you get it.

Thanks for all the info. I spoke to Parcelforce and they will re-deliver it again today so hopefully it will arrive today one way or another. I'm going to let it settle for a while and tune the strings in the key of C for the first few weeks or so. I know that I have to tune it everyday at first. It will also be good practice for me getting used to using the Tuning Lever etc. Luckily, I've got a digital tuner which I can use to help.
I'm still excited about getting and learning the Harp but the initial intense enthusiasm has faded a bit having to wait 3 weeks for it. I'll have to try and rekindle my original enthusiasm when I get it.
I'll keep you posted as to how I get on.

Gae

Erard - I had a feeling they were real gut, but something someone said confused me. I thought you'd *know*, lol, I'm no expert!

Definitely tune it every day - as well as giving you practice at it, the harp will need it, and it'll help everything settle. Mine needed tuning everyday for at least 5 or 6 weeks (progressively is stayed more in tune, but I tend to notice if things are even a bit out so I was fine-tuning it every day) and I went on a harp course so the long journey meant a big re-tune - and then suddenly one day it just stayed in tune - after the return trip in the car, as well... it was really weird! I don't know how long it takes most harps though.

I'd have an experiment with the levers, just so you can hear how good or bad they are. But then I would not be able to resist curiosity just to see how they worked!

Erard - which levers do you like? There are so many different thoughts and I always find it really interesting the different opinions on which are best/easiest to use.

I really look forward to hearing how you get on!

Brilliant, wonderful, excellent!! Got the Harp eventually yesterday, so far here are my experiences.
The Harp is beautiful and I'm very pleased with it, but one of the sharpening levers didn't stay in place and hold the string and it was on the middle F string of all places!! Anyway, I unscrewed it and swapped it for the D sharpening lever which was identical. I cant see me using many D#s to be honest. Does anyone know where I can buy sharpening levers from in the UK for future refernece please? I sent an E-Mail to the sellers about the dodgy lever but I've had no reply yet. I asked for them to send me a couple of spare ones.
Last night, I started to tune the Harp very carefully. The instuction manually said to start short C string first and then all the other C's then the same with the F's and then the clear strings, keeping the tension as even as possible. I slowly brought the Harp up to key. Eventually, after about 1 1/2 hours I tuned it all up to reasonable pitch. Of course, the strings kept going out of key as soon as I tuned the others. Anyway, I read the Victoria whatser'name's book and studied a bit about the hand technique etc. Lo and behold, I was almost playing it using the correct technique already swapping 2 fingers betwen hands etc. I've played a similar technique on the piano so it was quite straightforward. The pictures of the thumb up etc were good because as soon as I used this technique, I plucked the string much better, bringing the finger back into the hand and the sound was much better. I carried on messing around with the excercises and simple pieces and found that I could play them from memory immediately as they were quite easy. A lot of them I know through Piano, "Ode to Joy "Lavender's Blue" "Largo" etc and so I could watch my fingers and make sure I was getting the technique right. It did feel a bit awakward keeping the thumbs up at first, but I'm getting used to it. I started experimenting by bringing in a C arpeggio at the end of the piece etc but I'm being careful that I dont pick up bad habits with fingers (although I'm pretty sure 3 and 4 are used in this way). One problem I had was that I was tending to catch the ringing string with my left hand finger as I have quite fleshy fingers.... I'll have to watch out for that. So far I've been playing the pieces with the second finger only in the book and found it very easy. Occasionally I try and harmonise thirds or fifths with the melody but I'm not going to get too ambitious as I still feel a bit like a fish out of water. I eventually finished about 1:30am, the board was down last night so I didn't write anything.
I got up early this morning to see how the Harp was and to my surprise it had almost retained its tuning. O.K. there were a few flat notes here and there but overall I was quite surprised. I re-tuned it up and carried on where I'd set off. I am sitting sideways on a Piano stool and have the music on a stand. Occassionally I sit in the armchair when playing as it feels really comfortable.
What books would anyone recommend to use after this introductory book? I was considering even buying the ABRSM Grade 1 Harp Book but I can't find anyone who seems to sell them.
Anyway, my first experience with the Harp has been great. Oh I forgot to say. I stopped playing when my fingers felt like they were blistering. A good time to stop no doubt.
I may post a recording of my playing later if you can bear to hear it!!

Gae

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 12 2005, 03:01 PM)

What books would anyone recommend to use after this introductory book?  I was considering even buying the ABRSM Grade 1 Harp Book but I can't find anyone who seems to sell them. Anyway, my first experience with the Harp has been great. Oh I forgot to say.  I stopped playing when my fingers felt like they were blistering.  A good time to stop no doubt. I may post a recording of my playing later if you can bear to hear it!!

Do you mean like the ABRSM piano exam piece books? a harp one does not exist afaik! bit like flute, etc, you have to buy the music separately.

For ordering harp music I'd recommend Holywell music in London, if you phone them up they will be able to advise you - really really nice and friendly and helpful on the phone.

Holywell Music
58 Hopton Street, SE1 9JH
Phone: 020 7928 8451

there are lever harp scale books, there's a huuuuuuuuuuuge italian technique book which is the sort of basic harp bible I think... but anyway they will certainly be able to help!

I'm so glad it came! Sounds like you're getting on really well.

Your fingers will feel sore... there may come a time (there always does when i go back to it after not playing for a while) when it REALLY hurts. but then your fingers toughen up.

Oh dear- I have been talking like I know everything again- be warned, I am perfectly capable of spouting utter nonsence with total confidence! However, I do (as you may have noticed) collect harp related information.

Thumbs up and comfortable already! I had been playing for seven years before I mostly stopped hearing 'thumbs up' (and not as a compliment!).

My favourite levers are pedals!

Brough levers are a good candidate for my favourite levers, I 'grew up' on the Pilgrim plastic levers (definitely my favourite 'budget' brand) which is what my clarsach has, and they and the Brough are the two main types that engage downwards, which I find very nice, you are moving with gravity and in the same direction as pedals. Pretty nearly the rest of the world used levers you move upwards to engage and seem happy that way. Truitt levers are very nice (and can be put on upside down so they engage downwards and the Mark Norris ones (which are pedal harp type discs with individual handles) are very good. Camacs newest design are very nice, though I prefer a conceptually simpler design as I find that more elegant. There are many other good designs too.

If you want levers matching those on the Pakistani harp I believe the Early Music Shop will sell them, but do ask/send them a close up photo to check as i think there may be more than one design. www.e-m-s.com If you decide to change all the levers on your harp I would refer you to www.pilgrimharps.co.uk (plastic levers are something like £3 each) as spending the £15 per lever I think Peter Brough charges would be ridiculous overkill for that harp.

The Grossi method tome (which is quite likely the Italian book Sarah refers to) is very good for finger exercises with no melodic pretensions for building technique and there are at least two books on arranging for folk harp you might like (Sylvia Woods, and Kim Robertson). I am not very familiar with music books for only 22 strings, but there are some and Holywell or Pilgrim should be able to recommend.

Once your harp is mostly settled I see no reason to continue tuning in the order Cs Fs etc if you find tuning the strings in order to be simpler, this is what I do. I also believe in red and blue/black nail varnish on the appropriate tuning pins (even of my lovely concert grand) and levers.

Someday make a point of trying a really good harp so you know how yours compares- (probably about equal to the price difference!) are you anywhere near a harp showroom? They are perfectly happy for you to go play if you might buy/rent a harp from them in the next decade.