hello everyone!
am I the only person here who finds that the flute (and not only the really high notes) is actually rather loud? loud enough to be commented on by neighbours down the road?! I always shut all the windows before I start practising and yet I'm still much louder than my brother, who plays the electric guitar!!! I don't want the whole neighbourhood to hear me practising, so this is a bit of a problem!
any comments (for example on how to reduce the volume without installing a sound proof area) welcome!

Experiment with the enbrouchure until you can vary the dynamics. But don't roll in too much or it will go flat. And don't roll out too much or it will go sharp.

Yes, I got heard by my neighbours and I never have the window open. :-\. If you put soft furnishings in the room you're in I think they absorb the sound.

As a violinist, sorry to barge in on a flute topic, but being 'heard practising by people down the road' is a real problem for lots of treble instruments. In fact when I was at Trinity College of Music, the windows had to be kept shut ALL of the time, because people in the neighbouring buildings would phone up and complain about the noise(?). (It's odd to note though that few neighbours will complain about loud rock or pop music being played - so why pick on classical ).

Anyway, to the point in question............

The soft furnishings idea is a good one, but also practising in a 'dead' room, ie. a room with with little or very low acoustical properties, is another option, if you have such a room in the house. Going OTT on the soft furnishings will create this type of room too.

String instrument players are quite lucky that we can put mutes on the bridge and practise at midnight if we wish, but woodwind players don't have this luxury. Mutes have their down side though, as it doesn't let you practice tone production, but then again, playing p or pp on any instrument doesn't either, so none of us can win entirely.

If you get complaints from anyone tell them what I do, "You're lucky, most people have to pay to hear me play". I guarantee it will shut the whingers up permanently .

Amanda

lol. Look on the positive side~ I've never had this problem, my speciality is playing pppp! Its taken me years of work to produce a decent forte!

Mind you, I do live in a house with 2 to 3 foot walls in places, which would probably mop up most of the noise!

lol...

recent tip that I've found to work, and means I'm finally learning how to play pp in the higher reaches of the flute and still have some sort of tone (I think, it can be hard to tell with one's own playing) is using the shape of your mouth cavity to influence the volume, rather than relying only on airspeed etc. So, you mouth is in the shape you use for big FAT sounds when you want to be louder (eg AWW) and little quiet sounds when you're playing pp (ie, ee or oo... oo seems to me to produce a nicer sound, ee is kind thin). I got that from Jen Cluff's site http://www3.telus.net/Garry_McKevitt/index.htm I think, well I certainly first heard about it from Jen! and she learned it from a book called The Physical Flute by Fiona Wilkinson. I'm not exactly a world class flautist, and I'm new to technique really, but I have found it helpful. I'm not that great at ff at all, and have always been a bit rubbish at going anywhere high without being really loud, but I've been experimenting with oo for quiet bits in the Prelude from Rutter's Suite Antique, and although I've far from perfected it, there is a bit around bar 28 - 32 as an example which is marked mp and is semibreves and minims from D3 to A3, there is a little crescendo but I've always been like, how on EARTH am I supposed to play that high, quietly, sweetly, and not die from having too little breath?? and I have been surprised at how much the mouth shapes thing works with being quiet and having tone, and also is helping me use my air more efficiently. And it's just generally a pretty quiet piece and all high, and for the first time I'm actually able to do something with the dynamics and not just play everything louder than I know full well it should be!

um. sorry that got kinda long. but yeah, we're right in the range where sounds travel really easily. especially in the middle n top register....

Tamsin: I struggle with forte as well, except in the top register where I used to (and sometimes still do) just end up blowing my guts out. Think with me it's partly a confidence thing. What have you found helps with playing loud?

At least you can play pppp.... that's quite an achievement for a flautist. You need to play lots of really delicate pieces which show it off!

QUOTE

Prelude from Rutter's Suite Antique

Gorgeous piece, but is awful for high notes and piano dynamics.

I get sharp when I play loud, I try and use my diaphragm but don't know how well my dynamics sound.

I have recorded myself and some bits I am appalled by what I hear. Scales are OK, but the intonation in some places is horrible!

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Dec 29 2004, 09:52 PM)

QUOTE Prelude from Rutter's Suite Antique Gorgeous piece, but is awful for high notes and piano dynamics. I get sharp when I play loud, I try and use my diaphragm but don't know how well my dynamics sound.

I'm glad it isn't just me!

I really could do with being able to record myself and play it back easily... I think I've improved a lot recently, and I'm almost certain that my dynamics are better and my intonation esp up high is better... but it'd be nice to be able to listen objectively to check!

(or maybe it wouldn't be nice... maybe I should be grateful.... oh well, my neighbours haven't complained so I guess it can't be too awful.............. )

QUOTE

I'm glad it isn't just me! I really could do with being able to record myself and play it back easily... I think I've improved a lot recently, and I'm almost certain that my dynamics are better and my intonation esp up high is better... but it'd be nice to be able to listen objectively to check! (or maybe it wouldn't be nice... maybe I should be grateful.... oh well, my neighbours haven't complained so I guess it can't be too awful..............    )

I have not had the Prelude as a piece that my teacher has set me, but have done it in my own time. My fingers certainly slip on the fast bit on the second page, I think the bit you're talking about. My F# or G (can't remember the note) I usually don't hit as it is quick. I decided to video record myself as I could check out my posture and breathing too and it was clearer than a tape recording. The Chanson is also beautiful in Suite Antique, about Grade 5 standard. Recently I performed the Ostinato and my teacher wants me to play the Waltz!!!!!

Hello!
Thanks for all your advice!!! I'll try all you've suggested and if that doesn't help I'll use Amanda's statement !
I'm playing the prelude of rutter's suite antique for my next exam, by the way, and I definately need to practise dynamics there, too! isn't it lovely, though?!

Is the Prelude a grade 6 piece?

And isn't the Waltz Grade 8? I loved the Prelude when I played it for grade 6, I only wish I could have played it with the wonderful piano patr more than 3 times, cause I can't actually remember what it goes like now.

I think I might get the suite actually, to learn for when I retake. If I'm right about the other 2 movements that I swear are grade 8.

Playing forte, well, yeah, being a confidence thing makes sense. I do a lot of lond note practise, the easy way (starting quiet and crescendoing to forte, before coming back down to piano) and the hard way (starting and ending forte) Doing this in all ovtaves, and playing scales in the same way etc, it just all helps with the whole breath control palava!

QUOTE

And isn't the Waltz Grade 8?

Yes it is, along with the Aria

QUOTE

I loved the Prelude when I played it for grade 6, I only wish I could have played it with the wonderful piano patr more than 3 times, cause I can't actually remember what it goes like now.

I have a recording if you would like it, PM me

QUOTE

Playing forte, well, yeah, being a confidence thing makes sense. I do a lot of lond note practise, the easy way (starting quiet and crescendoing to forte, before coming back down to piano) and the hard way (starting and ending forte) Doing this in all ovtaves, and playing scales in the same way etc, it just all helps with the whole breath control palava!

Whenever I try and play load though I go out of tune and it just doesn't sound right.

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Dec 30 2004, 02:07 PM)

Is the Prelude a grade 6 piece?

Yep, Prelude is G6, the Aria & Waltz (together) are G8.

Nicki, for the dynamics I mean on the first page just before C - really long, high and quiet! mp, slight cresc, then back down to p. The fast bit on the 2nd page isn't easy, but at least it's mf, it would be a pig if it was really quiet.

Tamsin: yeah, get it - it's a great piece of music, and a couple of the movements are (relatively!) simple and pretty, then you have a couple of manic fast ones and more difficult ones... the Waltz, for instance, which is insane and rather fabulous! (it's on the CD Distant Land if you want to get a recording... I did find it on another with the Poulenc Sonata online, which would have been a great combination, but they said they couldn't get hold of it )

July - yes, it's lovely!

I have the sheet music (and piano accompaniment) for the whole suite antique if anyone wants it!

<starts fight as we all scrabble to take it from July>

No seriously, I would... especially as I know I like it already.

QUOTE (AmandaL @ Dec 29 2004, 08:11 PM)

As a violinist, sorry to barge in on a flute topic, but being 'heard practising by people down the road' is a real problem for lots of treble instruments.

I would like to agree with this!!!

Nearly all the instruments I play are treble (violin, horn, my Garklein/sopranino/descant recorders... I dabble in flute a bit as well)... and I have two extremely loud pianos... the neighbours must HATE me...

But then they must hate my brother more as aside from the cello he plays trumpet and drums.

Soundproof your practise room.

hi tamsin!
you can pm me if you'd really like the music! I could probably scan it and send it to you via e-mail?!

charlotte

My teacher told me that the flute can be loud, just like the brass instruments

This is a fab piece of music weve got a dicussion on here! I also played the Prelude for grade 6. The Waltz is really hard I attempted it for my grade 8 but changed my mind and went for the York bowen piece instead! Have you guys tried the Rondeau? this is fabby but Im still trying to get my fingers round the semiquaver bit in the middle and the trills at the end! Yeah my neighbours always here me practising but they are really nice and dont mind in the slightest and enjoy me playing! This is at home I hate to think what my flatmates think when Im practising at uni! I always practise in the flat but theyve not said anythin so Im guessing they dont mind Im sure 1 in particular would have said something by now if they did!

QUOTE

As a violinist, sorry to barge in on a flute topic, but being 'heard practising by people down the road' is a real problem for lots of treble instruments.

People down the road can hear me practising?? *rushes to close windows*
I knew that the people next door could, but a lot of musicians live in our road and I'd prefer it if they didn't hear my violin practice, particularly on days when I just can't get it right!

yeah... I'm in a mid-terrace, and I feel guilty sometimes, especially when I'm practising the top octave. I did 2 hours Monday, 3 Tuesday, 2 1/4 yesterday, 1 1/2 today... (not all high register I hasten to add, I'd be dead by now!!) they will all be so pleased to go back to work....

and yeah, the Suite Antique is fab - Tamsin, you HAVE to get it, you'll love it!

I have the flute part by my computer after talking with you guys about it so many times in the last couple of days!

QUOTE

My teacher told me that the flute can be loud, just like the brass instruments

Well if you think about it there are usually only 1 piccolo in a whole orchestra and it can still be heard

QUOTE

I did 2 hours Monday, 3 Tuesday, 2 1/4 yesterday, 1 1/2 today

Wow, I think I am going to find it hard to continue to do more than an hour's practice per night in term time, I think I'll only have Sundays which are going to be free

QUOTE

People down the road can hear me practising??  *rushes to close windows* I knew that the people next door could, but a lot of musicians live in our road and I'd prefer it if they didn't hear my violin practice, particularly on days when I just can't get it right!

Well luckily my road is about 3 houses long, so less people to hear me, but there a few houses opposite but they're in the next road.

QUOTE

you can pm me if you'd really like the music! I could probably scan it and send it to you via e-mail?!

Ditto, but with the recording if you would like it.

QUOTE

I have the flute part by my computer after talking with you guys about it so many times in the last couple of days!

I would have it next to me but keep forgetting to get it. My music teacher (not flute teacher) has the piano part though after I played Ostinato in a concert and she 'didn't know where it was' last time I asked her

QUOTE

The Waltz is really hard I attempted it for my grade 8 but changed my mind and went for the York bowen piece instead! Have you guys tried the Rondeau?

I am doing Grade 7 in March, but I think this piece is to challenge me, especially since I have to perform it in a concert. I have attempted the Rondeau, not officially, and cannot get all the fast, tricky bits in the middle.

QUOTE

Well if you think about it there are usually only 1 piccolo in a whole orchestra and it can still be heard

ooo my!

i never knew that

woodwinds rocks! puahahah!

I would say though, that the flute and particularly picollo are piercing, so they cut above and across the other instruments, rather than loud. Which would explain why orchestral parts for flute never seem to use the lowest octave!

Thanks a lot everyone for the offers, righty-oh, pm's. I hate pm's!

sometimes when you are playing in an ensemble, it feels like you cannot be heard at all, but it's always enlightening to listen back.... it's surprising how much the flute can hold its own! was reminded of this recently hearing myself play on our church video in the worship band: even with a cornet, piano, and two guitars, and I think possible a violin and cello, I could still hear me! eek! I better practice...