Sorry, but this is getting my back up. At least once a week on these forums, people seem to want yet more and more tips on sight reading. What is the fascination with it? Of course, everyone would love to be able to just play anything that was put in front of them but isn't it obvious how to improve your playing by sight? In my short time playing, I've found that the people who sight read well are the ones who have lots of playing experience behind them.

Can we please ban sight reading posts?! What's wrong with learning nowadays?

These are the forums of a music exam board. Sight-reading is part of music exams. Hence the need for sight-reading tips around here.

I improved my sight reading by just..playing and practising everyday!

my way of learning is "look beyondd......"

lol

hello fredA, I'm glad you obviously don't have a problem with sight reading,or you might be more sympathetic. cecilia is right--as a music related board you simply can't ignore someone who is honestly asking for help.If sight reading posts annoy you,don't read them.

Yes, several topics come up often - sight reading is one aurals, another. What books to use is another, exam results, and many topics are small talk - your favourite musician, how to practise scales, what's jazz about? Then you meet people obviously new to music who ask how do I write a symphony, I bought a cello should I find a teacher?
but which should be banned?
I agree with Jasbeth. If a reader doen't like a topic, best not to read it.

Veronique

I agree that some people do seriously struggle with sightreading and aural, but I do also get sick of the same posts. I found the only way to improve my sight reading (that used to be awful) was PRACTISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and thats the only advice I have on the subject and the main advice everyone seems to give to all these people!!!! When will they learn?

Also, you might find it annoying because you can sight read. I can luckily sight read but it must be very frustrating if you can't, and find it hard and so feel that they are not that good at playing. Then posters want to know how to improve as they want to feel better about themselves.
Also, beginners don't have the luxury of having a lot of experience.

QUOTE (purple pianist @ Dec 30 2004, 06:52 PM)

I agree that some people do seriously struggle with sightreading and aural, but I do also get sick of the same posts.  I found the only way to improve my sight reading (that used to be awful) was PRACTISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and thats the only advice I have on the subject and the main advice everyone seems to give to all these people!!!! When will they learn?

You can apply the same thought to every practical post raised on this forum. So what should the ABRSM do? Close it?
No. It is a forum and of great help to people building up their confidence. Some teachers fail and pupils can come here for varied opinions, even guidance.
(I have my pet annoyances* but recognise that others may not concur so I just don't read the posts.)

*including gripes like the original one, irrelevant as the "gripee" need never read the posts they don't like.

Hahahaha, - gripee, I like that. Maybe some gripe water (2 drops essential oil of peppermint in 600ml water) would help. Couple of pats on the back and bu-u-u-urp, it's over.

And what's more, I'm fed up to the back teeth with these humorous people who keep cracking the most awful puns in a sober, lugubrious place like the Associated Board forum. Not to mention making light of this onerous heavyweight subject: music.
What do they think the place is? A Voix-de-Ville act? You never heard Beethoven laughing.

I've said my piece (and will leave, doffing my straw hat and twirling the ever-famous walking cane).

R

"I like that. Maybe some gripe water (2 drops essential oil of peppermint in 600ml water) would help. Couple of pats on the back and bu-u-u-urp, it's over."

QUOTE

And what's more, I'm fed up to the back teeth with these humorous people who keep cracking the most awful puns in a sober, lugubrious place like the Associated Board forum. Not to mention making light of this onerous heavyweight subject: music.

Oh yes, of course, and I'm so fed up with people on these forums cheering me up after I've had a bad day, such as now. Rhapsodin, you are one of the worst culprits!

I used to not be able to sight read very well but it is slowly improving. It IS just sight reading that improves your sight reading. Some people DO find it hard. It's like some people find theory hard. You just have to accept it and get on with life.

Not quite so simple.

Accurate sight reading improves your sight reading.

Playing with a dodgy pulse and some wrong notes makes you better at playing wrong notes with a dodgy pulse!

There are loads of things you can do to help improve your sight reading - when I did my CT ABRSM (fab course) I did a project on this and come up with 30+ ideas!

QUOTE

I did a project on this and come up with 30+ ideas!

Can you elaborate?

QUOTE (freda_bloogs @ Dec 30 2004, 03:51 PM)

Sorry, but this is getting my back up. At least once a week on these forums, people seem to want yet more and more tips on sight reading. What is the fascination with it? Of course, everyone would love to be able to just play anything that was put in front of them but isn't it obvious how to improve your playing by sight? In my short time playing, I've found that the people who sight read well are the ones who have lots of playing experience behind them. Can we please ban sight reading posts?! What's wrong with learning nowadays?

You could always, um, not read sight reading posts?

I've got the secret to improving your sight-reading and it worked for me....
Play every single piece ever composed for your instrument and nothing is left to sight read!!
Seriously though, there's many a true word said in jest. The more you play, the more different styles of music you play, the longer you've been playing, the more theory you understand, all adds up to improving your ability to interpret a piece of music and give a reasonable rendition of it on first attempt. Most people think that if they just play the notes, without any thought, something miraculous will happen...not so. If you can read the music in your head first i.e. the key signature, style, character, rhythm flow etc before you even start, then you will bring all of this to the sight reading and it will be all the better for it.

Sight reading takes years and years of practicing to improve. It is not just about reading the notes but also a wealth of other things. Before I even start to play I do the following first (in any particular order)

1)Look at the overall style of the piece...is it Baroque, Classical, Romantic, dissonant, popular, jazzy, rock, etc etc.
(Obviously, you cant do this without years and years of experience playing or studying all types of music, but try and see if you can get a rough idea)

2)Check the time and key signature and mentally feel the pulse that you want to play at. Once the key signature is in your head, apply this to the notes in the piece checking where the sharps/flats are. Also, is the piece major or minor? Look for the starting key/chord and the raised leading note in the Harmonic Minor scale e.g. G# in A minor. It is important to note if there are many or any accidentals in the piece too. This is also a clue to the style of the music..i.e. if the music has lots of accidentals, then it either modulates a lot, with slight dissonances or it is a dissonant piece of modern music.

3)Try and get a feel for the flow of the music, its rhythms by looking at the phrasing and note durations etc.

4)Look for any difficult bar/bars of music with regards to high/ low ledger notes and any tricky rhythms. Just quickly work out these few notes and visualise the rhythm. You usually get one or two tough bars like this in any piece.

5)Look at any dynamics and directions. I usually make a basic dynamic effort e.g. its loud at the beginning and soft at the end. Hopefully, I'll catch other gradations of music like crescendos and rits along the way...check these out first too if you have time.

6) Dont forget to check the tempo....is it adagio, allegro, moderato etc? If its a slow or medium pace, you will have more success at playing the piece as it finally should be played. If its Allegro, forget trying to play it at top speed as it will come out a mess. Try and go for a reasonably controlled, slower tempo, where you are in control.

7)Finally, take a deep breath and go for it, trying to remember all the details above. Dont worry about getting it note perfect, instead try and get the style of the music, a sketch of it, and do keep moving forward. Never, ever, go back to correct mistakes or get bogged down with one part. If you cant read it at first, just gloss over it and keep moving along.
(Imagine listening to your favourite pianist on CD and just having a slight scratch that just misses one minute part of the music and then continues nicely on its way as opposed to an annoying CD that gets stuck in a particular place for a long time before it continues. The first is much better than the second. Obviously, if the whole recording jumps and misses from start to finish, then expect a low mark!!

This might seem a lot of things to remember, but believe me, it does become more natural, the longer you've been playing. I can do more or less everything mentioned above quickly within the few seconds you have to study a piece you've never played. Sight reading does improve with experience and the longer you've been playing of course!!

Good luck!

Gae

wow... great stuff Gae!

Seriously, if sightreading was promoted from the day a student can first read anything on printed music no matter how simple, these problems wouldn't arise.

Those students who come on this site wanting sightreading tips because they have an exam in n weeks and really can't do it, are telling me that their teachers are incompetent and have failed them. .. Those students should demand a partial refund and can blame their teachers (unless said teachers have TOLD them to get sightreading and the students haven't). Teachers spend far too long on 'pieces' and sightreading is treated as an unfortunate add-on.

Agreed it comes more difficult with some students than others but a lot can still be done by getting going right from the start.

It's barely different from reading books. I'm an atrocious reader but I don't shy away from books because I have a hard time. Most people learn just to read books without any preparation. Okay, music contains a density of information far greater than linear text but that's where practice comes in.

Just do it. Get your teachers to find past material at a suitable grade and just do it. So you make a mess the first time - so what? Just persist.

QUOTE

Seriously, if sightreading was promoted from the day a student can first read anything on printed music no matter how simple, these problems wouldn't arise.

Hmmm.....
Didn't hold true for me.
I was very good at sight reading at my playing level and even a little above for the first few years when I began piano.
Somehow it never kept pace with my playing and am not so good now.

I suppose there comes a point where sight reading isn't easy, inasmuch as the pieces one aims at are no longer easy. But I'm ready to bet that you sightread music suited to your level much better than someone to whom it has been an unfortunate adjunct to the main stuff - learning exam pieces from music.

However, yes, there will always be exceptions just as in reading text there are those who never get the hang of it.

I guess also you need to keep practising sight-reading, and practice at the level you are at... someone could be great at sightreading grade one pieces, but if they just decided that sight-reading was easy and stopped practising, then they aren't going to be so good at it when they are tryint to sight-read grade 5 pieces. It's practice of actual sightreading, and also knowing your instrument really well so that you don't have to look and think "oh my word, how do I play that note!" or something in the middle of a piece of sight-reading.

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 2 2005, 11:57 AM)

I've got the secret to improving your sight-reading and it worked for me.... Play every single piece ever composed for your instrument and nothing is left to sight read!!

random thought: I wonder if anyone has actually ever managed to do that? lol... for some instrument that didn't have many pieces written for it, maybe....

QUOTE

random thought: I wonder if anyone has actually ever managed to do that? lol... for some instrument that didn't have many pieces written for it, maybe....

When would you know when you'd played everything, some composer might have some music stashed away that nobody has even found. Ok I am getting a bit far fetched now!!

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Jan 2 2005, 12:58 PM)

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 2 2005, 11:57 AM) I've got the secret to improving your sight-reading and it worked for me.... Play every single piece ever composed for your instrument and nothing is left to sight read!! random thought: I wonder if anyone has actually ever managed to do that? lol... for some instrument that didn't have many pieces written for it, maybe....

I doubt if professional ondes martenot players have to do much sight reading.

I guess that new people come on to the board, and have the same problems, hence we get repetitions of thread issues, like sight reading.

And I also guess that within each of us exists the "child" who hopes for a magic wand solution to their problems (I know I do!) Sometimes it's hard to accept the practice-makes-perfect logic, because we want to achieve NOW, not at some stage in the future.



Amber
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QUOTE (kenm @ Jan 6 2005, 04:00 PM)

I doubt if professional ondes martenot players have to do much sight reading.

We can be pleased about that or there might be even more cries for sight reading help in these columns and corresponding gripes.

QUOTE (kenm @ Jan 6 2005, 04:00 PM)

I doubt if professional ondes martenot players have to do much sight reading.

True, but it's still a keyboard instrument. Probably very easy to sight-read as it can only play a single note at a time. They only have to work on pitching the ribbon correctly

Can't say I've ever played one

Hi Gae,

I don't know why but I didn't spot your post before I added my two-pennyworth earlier. Just want to say what sound, valuable advice you gave. Many thanks,



Amber
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QUOTE (purple pianist @ Dec 30 2004, 06:52 PM)

I agree that some people do seriously struggle with sightreading and aural, but I do also get sick of the same posts.

Then don't read the posts!

Sight reading is a problem for a lot of people, you can't just ask them to "practice". It's not easy. I agree that playing a lot of pieces can improve it, but that doesn't always work. I just can't understand how my mother can sight read an accompanying score like she has practiced it for weeks. And getting specimen sight reading tests is difficult. The ABRSM just gives 15 or so for the higher grades. We need more-maybe 100 at least! That's because each test can only be used once. And not everybody can sight read instantly.

I know someone who sight reads well. She says that the down side is that she finds it harder to be bothered to put in the effort to learn anything properly.

I agree sight-reading is or becomes a problem for a lot of people. However before posting a straight forward "help with sight-reading" topic - which does seem appropriate on these boards - people could just possibly think of searching previous posts to see if anything came up....I do believe there is a search function top right.....

QUOTE (Wyldbabi @ Dec 30 2004, 06:40 PM)

Yes, several topics come up often - what's jazz about?

You mean 'Wad is jazz about?'

QUOTE (lafrog @ Jan 7 2005, 04:27 PM)

I agree sight-reading is or becomes a problem for a lot of people. However before posting a straight forward "help with sight-reading" topic - which does seem appropriate on these boards -  people could just possibly think of searching previous posts to see if anything came up....I do believe there is a search function top right.....

Theoretically a nice idea but I've just done a search on sightreading and sight AND reading and got 4 pages of topics in 30 days. Didnt count replies but lets say its a fair number of posts to flip through just to see if what you want is there.
No matter its a forum and if people want to ask about sightreading so they should. If people don't want to read them nor reply they dont have to.

It'll be a slow moving forum if the owners start resricting what you can and can't ask about. What you'll get is lots of people asking whether they can ask this or that question without breaking the restrictions and a corresponding volume of answers.

It's so simple, original and other gripers - if you don't want to read it, don't; but stop griping.

A