HI I was wondering what the main differences between Atonality and twelve-tone music are. I have to do research on this and i know what they mean individually but trying to think of similarities and differences I am finding a bit more difficult.

Any help would be appreciated
Thanks

QUOTE (Hamilton185 @ Dec 31 2004, 02:12 AM)

HI I was wondering what the main differences between Atonality and twelve-tone music are. I have to do research on this and i know what they mean individually but trying to think of similarities and differences I am finding a bit more difficult. Any help would be appreciated Thanks

By 12-tone music I presume you mean serial music written using the "12-tone system" - in which thematic material is based on a tone-row of (ideally) 12 notes, each semitone of the chrom scale respresented just once.
If so, this is a system based on such rows or partial rows where the harmonic content and possible variations are derived entirely from that row. As such it is a fairly strict discipline.

The sonic differences are difficult to list since 12-tone (serial) music is atonal and examples abound of works that slip in and out of tonal-atonal-serial as the mood takes the composer. Both Alban Berg's dramas show this - (musicologists even going as far as saying that the prelude to the last act of Wozzeck is in D minor because it has a tonal centre of Dminor). Webern was the strictest of the 2nd V school, many others followed who were less so. Schoenberg who allegedly started the 12-tone system relaxed his own rules toward the end (though he never reverted to his earliest compositional stance).

Differences: 12-tone music is serial, (can be analysed as such) atonal non-12-tone is not and may follow conventional composing techniques - the Rite of Spring for example or any of Sculthorpe's Sun Musics (which I'd regard as atonal and impressionist).
12-tone (serial) music derives from strictly limited thematic material, it's pieces, episodes, movements will usually be short (as usual you'll find exceptions). Webern yields the best examples of these. Atonal music is usually more extended by use of more varied thematic material or related devices - rhythms, for instance.
The nature of 12-tone serial music precludes easily expressing emotions. Non-serial atonal composers can use developmental devices of conventional diatonic music to manipulate emotions or impressions.
Atonal music can pass through diatonic moments and usually has a "tonal centre" whether the composer wants it or not. Serial does not ( - it could do of course, by sheer fluke or design. The Lulu theme in Berg's Lulu has a 'vaguely tonal' opening because of the falling 5th then successive thirds but quickly moves off into more 'serial sounding' realms. Then again, Berg was one of the few who saw purpose in bridging the old with the new.)

Similarities: Neither use key signatures, (orchestral scores might use them for transposing instruments, might not). If atonal music uses a keysig, it's usually perversity on behalf of the composer (or he/she's bottled out)!
The harmonic rhythm (such as it can be according to what the composer is trying to do) is more tied in with larger rhythmic schemes (this is such a big subject though - different composers treat things in different ways) which is not necessarily related to beat.
Counterpoint in the traditional sense rarely works with either aside from imitative entries.
Hardly worth mentioning that both serial and non-serial need some work on the part of the listener to assimilate the material since neither concur (or rarely) with the musical-linguistic expectations of the less-educated listener (pardon the phrase) or the audial cues that seem instinctively wired in to humans.

This is just part of a story that started with the realisation, as early as 1860 that "tonality was dead or 'had-it' anyway," and a new, universal musical language was needed. It involved speech and the poet Mallarmé is now reckoned to have been a major contributor to serial technique, alas dying before he completed Le Livre. The movement went on well into the 1960s with darmstadt and total-serialism, the arrival of electronics that allowed representation of 'scores' more accurate than possible through human "agency". etc etc etc.

A set of books/magazines you may find useful are the English translations of "Die Reihe" (The Row) edited inter alia by Stockhausen. 8 volumes were published and covered retro material (right back to Debussy's Jeux,) and through to the early 1960s and aleateric techniques. I doubt they're still in print - should be available through libraries. Check on Google and Abebooks.

Hope that's a start. It's a small question but a big answer! Best to choose some typical works in both camps (and a few between); intuitively AND tehcnically analyse what the differences/ similarities are. For pure serial 12-tone head for Webern's later stuff. There are lots of composers who wrote serial music but not necessarily 12-tone.

For atonal (neo-classic or neo-romantic), go for the Rite of Spring; Henze (he had a definite knack - try the Cantatas, Undine, or Das Floss der Madusa; Villa-Lobos' smaller works - try the QUintet en Forme de Choros (this flips into diatonic moments), the American Peter Mennin etc etc etc.
Varèse is atonal but was given to bringing maths into his structures a lot. The Big band jazz/avant garde composer Bob Graettinger is worth a look as he mixed serial and non-serial atonality fairly freely (ex. The City of Glass; This Modern World) His work does cohere - it isn't just noise.

Remember that atonal music can sound tonal and vice versa - as Schoenberg said, dissonances are really just 'remote consonances' and when you look at the harmonic series, he's right!
good luck,
R

Hi Rhapsodin, thanks for that are u a uni student too cos that is greatly in depth? Why do they have to put 20th century music on the sylabus i cant say im a great fan of it.
Thanks for your reply

Just been intrigued about modern music for as long as I can remember. Teach composition now as far as it can be taught. Like you and many others I know, we're aware of serial systems but that's where it ends - enough to know it was there! Theoretical but no practical performance value.

Having said that, Berg seems to have cut a niche with his musical dramas. I quite like modern music but excluding serial stuff and things that composers wrote without knowing what the heck they were doing...looks good/clever on paper but no-no as a satisfying musical experience.
Good luck,
R

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Dec 31 2004, 09:59 AM)

Remember that atonal music can sound tonal and vice versa - as Schoenberg said, dissonances are really just 'remote consonances' and when you look at the harmonic series, he's right!   good luck, R

This last paragraph is the only part of your excellent post that I found not entirely convincing. I think you are using "atonal" where I would use "dissonant". I find it useful to have four adjectives:

Dodecaphonic: based on twelve notes, usually constituting an equal tempered octave.

Atonal: not liberally bestrewn with cadences, so rarely in a key.

Serial: using a row and its permitted transformations.

Dissonant: a measure of roughness of the sound produced by multiple notes; a spectrum rather than a category.