i wanted to know, is there such a thing as not being able to play a peice, (in ur opinion.) I want to attempt moonlight sonata the 3rd movement coz i really like the build up to the explosive chords in the first couple of lines.
Have u ever had a peice which uve tried but left it alone coz u couldnt play it, and can't till this day?

There is such a thing as a person not being able to play a piece at any particular moment.... for instance, if I tried "Clair de Lune" right now, even if I practiced like a maniac I just don't think I have the technical skill for it!!! so if a piece is simply too hard right now, then you may find that you work really hard and still can't play it. in which case it's probably best to leave it for a few months or years (depending on how much too hard it is) till your skill level has improved. I don't know about pieces you could NEVER play... I guess there are... some people give up before they get to the stage of being able to play at a certain level... and certainly for really really hard pieces... say, a Rachmaninov concerto! - there are going to be people (like me, for instance) who are just never going to reach the technical ability to get close to that, however hard they work... because it's just virtuoso. in the middling range of music, though, I suspect that most people, given the commitment to practice, a good teacher, and enough time could probably manage at least up to grade 5 or 6... maybe even more. but some people who weren't so naturally gifted may take much much longer to reach that level. making any sense here???!

Yes of course there is, although with enough hard work I think that eventually anyone could play something like Moonlight 3rd movement (whether they play it well or not is another matter). Something like Opus Clavibalisticum/Ligeti etudes etc is another matter though :|

Dave

Hi. I'm new to the forums. Just dropping in.

Yes I do think there are just some pieces that are very difficult to play and may seem like you may never be able to play it! But with practice and dedication, eventually you will be able to play some parts of it... or take me for instance, play the piece at an extremely slow pace! Haha. I can make Moonlight Sonata sound like Moonlight Sonata slow speed x 100. It's all about practice and improving your skill.

Happy New Year.

QUOTE

moonlight sonata the 3rd movement

Cool! Do you have big hands?

I can never play this piece because I have small hands.

Good luck.

I'm sure there are unplayable pieces for most people - prob the worst needing big hands and lots of endurance. Rolling large chords is not always feasible and smaller hands will tire quickly. There's plenty of Liszt, Gershwin (Concerto), Rachmaninoff and a fair bit of Billy Mayerl, that I'd never play simply because my fingers aren't long enough. I can stretch a 10th in LH well enough to play a scale in C, but getting my fingers in positions to play intermediate notes? Nope...and I'm not one to give up. If I'm desperate I'll rearrange the music to make it physically possible.

Just as bad is music for tiny hands - most of that's fine but not when you get to impossible people like Ravel and my roly-poly fingers get stuck between the black notes or play a 3-note cluster!

I agree with the others - it is largely down to your technical ability at the time. I can't say I've looked at that movement in much depth but I don't think it is wildly difficult compared to the rest of the sonata. After playing "that" movement (the Andante sostenuto) I'm sure you'll want to learn the rest so that the non-music folk wont refer to the single movement as the Moonlight Sonata

There have been times when I thought I could never learn a piece only to have proved myself wrong later on, and it is a rewarding feeling when you achieve it

QUOTE ("Dave_2004_G")

Something like Opus Clavibalisticum/Ligeti etudes etc is another matter though :|

Never got to hear Opus Clavibalisticum. Is this the 8-hour long work by Sorabji?

I played Ligeti's 'Cordes a vide' for my diploma and managed it quite well. I agree that most of the Etudes and a lot of Ligeti's other works expand the limits of virtuosity, but Aimard can play them brilliantly. In terms of physicially unplayable I think anything specifically written for player piano such as Ligeti's 'Colana fara sfarsit' (etude 14a) at its intended speed, and Nancarrow's Studies for player piano aren't playable

QUOTE (jstark @ Jan 3 2005, 10:17 PM)

anything specifically written for player piano

um... yerwhat? player piano? am I being thick...?

Nope. I'm deviating a bit, but Player Pianos are pianos fitted with a mechanism that literaly plays the piano by reading a moving scroll. They existed as early as the 1910s (I think) and Ravel has made recordings of himself performing his works! Todays player pianos such as the Yamaha Disklavier work using MIDI and as the name suggests you can save performances to disk, though I've never had a go on one

Conlon Nancarrow was an American composer who experimented with the technical possibilities a player piano would allow. The studies for them that I've heard are quite crazy!

Ahh... a pianola?

QUOTE (jstark @ Jan 3 2005, 10:41 PM)

Conlon Nancarrow was an American composer who experimented with the technical possibilities a player piano would allow. The studies for them that I've heard are quite crazy!

Manipulation was rife even in the earliest days of pianola.

Piano rolls = big business.

Zez Confrey, Rube Bloom, etc published their music but cheated like crazy on piano rolls. Listen to Dizzy Fingers or even Kitten on the Keys and you'll hear all sorts of octave doublings, extra melody lines being brought out, etc. That's before all the editings of wrong notes etc. Such music is quite impossible to play - except on a pianola - so I'm not sure that counts as unplayable music tho...if the version concerned wasn't meant to be played by people.

I can manage K on the keys as published (with a few embellishments) but not the octave doublings!

bach/busoni - chaconne.. ARGH! terrible. but also terribly lovely.

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 3 2005, 10:41 PM)

Listen to Dizzy Fingers or even Kitten on the Keys and you'll hear all sorts of octave doublings, extra melody lines being brought out, etc. Such music is quite impossible to play - except on a pianola - so I'm not sure that counts as unplayable music tho...if the version concerned wasn't meant to be played by people.

Regarding octave doubling, Liszt's 6th Hungarian Rhapsody contains a very fast octave passage that, to me, sounds quite impossible

Just say it this way:

Always start slowwwwwwwwwww...