Having further thoughts on attempting recorder.....

I have listened to alot of recorder music and if I'm going to try it, I'm going to go for the tenor - I love the sound and tone! Also, as I'm likely to be poor for the foreseeable future, starting an instrument that could be upgraded for a relatively low price (compared to say, a flute upgrade) appeals. I have some questions though.

First of all, would I be able to use my flute music? I know the tenor doesn't go as high, but most of my music only goes into two octaves anyway. Also, what about small hands - I see Aulos does a keyless slimline tenor http://www.djmmusic.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=211A. I do have very small hands but I could cover the holes on a clarinet comfortably, it's just my right hand pinky that might struggle.

I'd also appreciate any advice on controlling the breath on a tenor - I know the smaller sizes have very little resistance compared to other woodwind instruments, I'm assuming the tenor is the same. How do you control this?? Is it just a matter of blowing more softly/breathing down the instrument? I know this is oversimplifying things but you know what I mean......

Also, is there much opportunity for ensemble playing with recorders?

Thanks in advance!

I do play some flute music on my tenor, and yes, the sound is fabulous. Set against that is the fact that the tenor doesn't of itself have that great a range of repertoire - you can nick some descant music and play it on tenor, or you can play the tenor line in recorder ensembles. The instrument is probably the one most likely to give players difficulty with stretch, and it's not just a question of keyed or not keyed to get round this - the left hand is played at quite a stretch, and it is also more difficult to play held out at about forty five degrees for those of smaller build - the greater weight and length can lead to arm ache. That in turn means that a smaller person will probably want to use a thumbrest for the right hand, so that the instrument doesn't have to be gripped in order to stop it from slipping to the floor....There really is no substitute for going to the sort of shop which has a large range of instruments for you to try out - possibly even including acquiring a tenor with knick construction (looks like someone sat on it just below the head ) to help with reach. The obvious list of things to look out for would include weight, stretch between fingers and stretch outwards of arms, as well as tone of course.

I have no awareness at all of needing to change anything about my breathing when switching instruments, and I've now played every size from sopranino to contrabass. The bigger instruments hold a bigger volume of air, so you do run out of wind more quickly - I can play far longer runs on descant than if I play the same piece on tenor - but the principles of support for sound remain the same. The larger instruments are less "nippy" - they respond slightly more slowly, so articulation does have to reflect that, but this is something which you just tend to adjust to automatically.

One more thought on which size to learn: it depends what you want to learn it for. If your thought is as a cheap way to do music til you can indulge in the instrument you really want to play, then it's less important, but if you really want to get the most out of playing recorders, it extends your flexibility massively to be able to play instruments in F and in C. Players in ensembles who stick only to one size have less fun, and also impose on their co-players a more limited range of instruments, which can, in my experience, cause some resentment. There is nothing worse than playing in some SRP sub-branch where there are four players who only play descant, and don't do so that wonderfully well either - nobody else gets a go, and you have a screechy horrible noise on top of everything you tackle together....

Thanks anacrusis, that's really useful.

If I found myself enjoying tenor I'd probably give the other sizes a go too, I'm not fussy - it's more if I'm going to buy and concentrate on one to start with I prefer the sound of the tenor. I'm popping into town tomorrow so may go and try a tenor in my local shop.

Anacrusis got there first. This is what I had typed (slowly).


Tenor is my favourite size of recorder too! The main downside, I think is that most of the music written for solo recorder is aimed at trebles. There's no reason why you shouldn't play your flute music on tenor, though as you appreciate some of it will go too high for the instrument. In my experience people tend to play flute music on treble, to cope with more of the high notes, and put the flute music up as necessary where it drops below the treble recorder's bottom F.

Many of my acquaintances complain that they find playing tenor for any length of time very uncomfortable because of the stretch. I do not know why, but this has never been a problem for me, and I think my hands are quite small. There are lots of (expensive) recorders around now, with lots of keys specifically to address this problem. At the cheaper end, my daughter has one of the Aulos keyless tenors - presumably the same model as you mention. We went and tried various tenors - in fact I expected to buy her a wooden one - but this was the only one where she felt comfortable. I suppose she was 12 at the time, and her fingers are still small. Two years on she complains about the tone of this recorder, which is perhaps not surprising as she occasionally borrows mine which is a much more expensive wooden one, but I think the Aulos is absolutely fine to start with. That reminds me that another possible disadvantage is that upgrading on a tenor is likely to be more expensive than upgrading a descant or treble.

At least where I live there are plenty of opportunities for playing in ensembles and often there is a shortage of tenor players. I play in a weekly evening class, monthly at meetings of the local Society of Recorder Players meeting and in a recorder orchestra and also have a group of (now) friends with whom I have been playing at my house since we were all even worse than we are now!

Not sure what to say about the breathing. If you play flute already you probably have huge lungs so will not have a problem providing the extra air needed to play a tenor (compared with treble or descant). Probably I should leave the experts to comment on this.

Just to clarify - my questions about air were more because of the lack of resistance on a recorder - i.e. with clarinet/oboe there is a resistance to your breath, with flute a lot of air escapes so you need loads. But when I've tried a recorder before it had so little resistance it felt like it was very easy to overblow, and I was wondering how you counteract this - does that make more sense??

On my tenor recorder some of the notes do overblow very easily - mostly the lowest notes, especially low E. I think the answer to your question is to experiment, practise and to get to know your recorder. And use your ears! Just like any other wind instrument really! You can pick a note and start by blowing very gently then gradually increase the breath pressure until the note "breaks". Then you know you should be playing below - but probably not too far below - breaking point. Don't blow too gently or the note will be very flat. It's interesting to experiment with a pitch meter too (invaluable if your sense of pitch is as bad as mine!) to see which notes are most prone to vary and by how much.

I was an oboist before I learned to play the recorder .

Here's the surprising bit - after having managed to push an airflow down an oboe for five or six years, and having presumably strengthened my diaphragm accordingly, when switching to recorder I found that what I lacked was proper support, and the recorder taught me that....which improved my tone on the oboe no end . I think before that I'd got the music out of my oboe by brute force...

Playing the recorder with proper support is not about being gentle, or blowing softly - it's perhaps easier to describe in terms of trying to make sure that the air from the bases of your lungs is going down the instrument - sometimes people will think ooer, this thing makes a noise really easily but it squeaks, and go rather gingerly, breathing more from the tops of their lungs, almost from under their shoulders. Walter van Hauwe's books on recorder technique (which really are rather technical, and ironically not that easy to follow unless you're already fairly good - ironically because as often as not a player will then need to rethink what they're doing ) give exercises on breathing using the diaphragm correctly for support. When trying instruments out, I'd encourage trying to blow almost from your belly upwards, firmly and assertively, then if necessary cranking back the pressure, rather than the other way about - that is the benefit of doing long slow note practice, it improves tone. Almost all learner and intermediate players I hear are not shoving enough air through, or putting it through under a lot of upper shoulder muscle tension. My teacher has pointed out, and it really is true - if you don't put enough air through, you find you also can't get notes moving smoothly and quickly enough. She says that that moving air acts as lubricant for runs of notes .

Remember that overblowing happens when you stick a faster air stream down the instrument. (Roughly speaking.) Softer blowing => slower air; but really its all to do with support. You don't really want to achieve the slower airstream by using less air, and so consequently loosing your volume and pitch control: the notes still need to be well supported.

Honestly, I think it just comes with practise and not thinking about it too hard: Getting the right harmonic at the right time just starts to happen!

Having done things the opposite way round from you - I have found that my recorder tone has improved as a result of playing the oboe

However (and this is entirely in agreement with what you say) it has only improved now that I have finally understood what support is on the oboe and stopped fighting the oboe to get notes out of it.

Siane, since you have a toddler and are pregnant again, have you been to any childbirth preparation classes? Actually I don't know if they exist in the UK but in France where you have the choice between an epidural or nothing, the midwives teach breathing exercices. One of these is designed to get you to separate "high" breathing from "low" breathing and it is the low breathing you need when you are playing a wind instrument.

I play this tenor. It is fine, except several small things

1) the lowest C and D are not as loud as the other notes, whatever you try.
2) earlier comparable models of Aulos look nicer.
3) the sound is OK, but rather boring when you play the notes on the boundary between the two octaves (when most of the fingerholes are open).