Hi all, I just got a Christmas bonus and DH has agreed to me spending it on a digital piano, yippeee!! It must be digital as I live in a block of flats, will be moving in the next 2 years and I need the headphone socket as my singing/flute etc makes enough noise already!

I have around ?900. Looking on thomann, that means a Yamaha YDP161 or CLP 320, Kawai CN 23 or CN 42, or a casio AP220 BN.

Does anyone have any experience of these? I'm looking for something that will be good enough to get DD through grade 8 if possible, as I don't want to have to change it too soon. I also have the problem that I am in Gibraltar, so there isn't anywhere for me to try them, no piano shops, so I need to go on reviews and reccomendations.

Thanks!

I would also look at the Roland FP4 which you might just get at that price. I was very impressed by it (although ended up getting the FP7 as it had a few more features)

Thanks - the Roland isn't on Thomann for that price, and I need to get it from there as I'm in Gibraltar. I'm really interested inthe Kawai CN 42, for ?920, that looks like a bargain, but is it good enough??

I tried Kawai pianos when I was looking for a new digital. I eventually got a Kawai stage piano but it has the same hammer action as their home digitals. I recall that the CA models have the slighter better action than the CN models (but obviously cost a bit more).

I would recommend getting a CA model with fewer gizmos since it is really all about the action. My Kawai digital has a better piano feel than the accoustic I'll be playing for a school Christmas concert next week!

The Yamaha Clavinovas were also pretty good, but I think the 330 series were better than the 320 series in terms of the action (but as always there is an additional cost).

I would think you will get 10 years life out of a decent digital so it might be better to stretch to one you are happy with. My old Roland RD500 lasted 15 years!

It always seems like the digital piano you really want always costs about 500 pounds more than you actually want to spend!

Yup, if I could I would buy a CLP330 but my budget will not stretch to more than ?940. So do you think these will be good enough for grade 8?

I have a CLP970, which I bought new when it was their top of the range model nearly 10 years ago. It has a good touch and sound and got me through grades 5,7 & 8 last year with no problems. I'm told it is not worth very much second hand so, if you can find one from a good home, it could be your answer.

Thanks - however I live in Gibraltar and there are no second hand digitals available here.

From what I've read, the new keyboard action on the Kawai CN23 & 33 is much improved to the CN42, so I'm edging towards the CN23. Just hope it's good enough to do what we need it to do! I'm so excited, I've missed having a piano so much, I got to grade 6 (many years ago) so looking forward to playing around on more than a keyboard again.

I still can't quite believe that DH has agreed to this!

I've got a Kawai CA51 and I really like it. As mentioned above, it's got a better piano feel than many acoustics. I don't think my playing on real pianos has suffered since I got it.

The one thing I don't like about Kawais is the samples. They do not sound as nice as the Yamahas. But I don't really care what they sound like; if I really got desperate, I could get the Garrittan Steinway samples (but then I'd have to buy a new computer to run them and that would cost more than the piano........)

Thanks for that - it's the dynamic levels that I worry about, I think that's going to be the biggie - my accompanist/teacher friend reckons his old CLP120 would be ok for grade 8, I'm hoping these are equivalent to those. Getting close to ordering......

CN23 - which has a new keyboard that has a better feel than the series ending with 2 (CN32 or 42) or CLP 320. Think it might just be the Kawai, as it's a newer model so technology just keeps improving!

Dynamic levels were not a problem - just the timbre, in my opinion. GOod luck! I think my CA51 would do for Grade 8 (I have a grade 8 from years ago) but dont know the newer series.

I believe there is a CN43 due out early next year, therefore this might be a stock dumping price. I know the CNx3's have an improved keyboard but I can't presonally comment on the diffferences.

It might be worth looking at the instruction manuals for the different machines, as I suspect the 42 may have lots of bells and whistles that you don't really need.

I think the CN42 has the same keyboard as the ES6 - that might give some more options for looking on youtube for various demos.

With Roland's FP4 this _might_ start turning up with a stock dumping price as its expected to be replaced soon by a FP4F, in the same way the FP7 has recently been replaced by a FP7F.

That is exactly the reason why I'm swaying to the CN23 - we don't need all the extras, and I'm told the new keyboard is a huge improvement (a few people have tested them and prefer them to the yamahas too) which for me is more important. It transposes and has a few voices, more interested in sound, feel and how realistic it is....

Hmm, I am in a similar position. My Kawai has a lovely action (when I bought it in Japan a few keys were clicky so the tech guy came to the house and tweaked it, this meant I got to see the keys and hammers in action - which showed where all the money went because the keyboard has no recording facility, mundane sounds, and no speakers)

The feel is close enough to a real piano but the difference comes in dynamics. The sound through speakers is never the same as the sound made by hammers hitting strings. When you really bash the low end on a real piano you can feel the volume because the piano vibrates! Plus, the sustain pedal on a real piano is very hard to get right on a digital.

Before my last exam I made a deal with my local primary school to pop in and practice on their rather clunky accoustic. My music teacher is based in a centre which only has a digital piano so I was getting a bit panicky that I would be tripped up by a real piano.

If I have passed my grade 7 (hoping!) then I will heading for grade 8 on a digital. I guess it is doable so long as you have regular access to a real piano too. Despite my lovely Kawai digital I am convinced that I need to buy a reconditioned Yamaha U3 in order to achieve my full potential (at least that is the set speech I am planning to use on the wife )

I am sure the Kawai CN series will be fine (after all, they're not exactly bargain basement are they!) I think when you get to the 900-1000 pound range most of the gear is pretty good. Paying 2000 pounds doesn't buy something twice as good, usually just something with twice as many gizmos.

Thanks Neil...this is what I think, the technology is always improving, so I'm hoping it's going to be OK. DD is only just starting on the piano, to back up her singing, but I don't want to be disappointed with it either! Having said that, I think i'll just be delighted with anything, I've just missed having more than a 5 octave keyboard.

I have decided on the CN23, as it is newer than the CLP320 which has been out for nearly 3 years now. Just have to work out the shipping now!

And good luck with the speech to your wife!!!

What's a DH?

"darling husband"!!!

So, did you get one? Has it arrived yet? I'm assuming you had ordered it to arrive for the Christmas holidays in case anyone wanted to hear an impromptu Chrimbo tune??

On its way, I hope!
I ordered it on Tuesday, it says 4-6 working days....hopefully by Christmas then. I'm having it shipped to a friend in spain and then have to export it and import it to Gib - and save ?55 of tax and ?150 shipping costs in the process. Can't wait! Also got a load of music on it's way - hopefully arriving in the early part of next week, so a bit excited!

OK Completely grumpy today now
It appears the order was completely messed up and disappeared into the ether...so when I phoned today after emailing last week with no response I get told that it's being shipped soon and will arrive in 3 WEEKS or so because of the holidays.
Boo. I would love to throw a toddler strop right now!!

Demand compensation lol

Hey - I've been looking at the FP4 in terms of a portable piano....how portable would you say your FP7 is? Is it easy to get about?!

Oh, that's a bummer! I hate it when stuff like that happens.

You should protest by eating lots of chocolate and drinking a lot In fact, as an act of solidarity I will do the same on your behalf.

LOL that is a definate plan, and I appreciate your support on this one!! I'm just hoping that my music will arrive this week so at least I can play on my old keyboard...

My sympathies, Dawnmc71. From the news on another thread, it sounds as though the new digital will be a thoroughly well-earned reward for a great exam result...

It won't be of much consolation but my own attempts to acquire a new digital piano have been even more frustrating and silly. I have a Kawai ES1, which was the best option I could find here for the budget I had and it's done pretty well for my needs. When a newer model came out (ES6) I really liked it but stupidly delayed taking the plunge until the only supplier here had sold out. "Ring back in a couple of months when we get the next shipment", they said. Ha ha. I have rung every two or three months for the past year and got the same answer. A week ago I rang again (hoping to get myself a nice Christmas present and was again told that it would be "about the middle of January" before the shipment would arrive. Eventually the mental light bulb went on... "Have you actually sent in the order", asks I. Long pause and then ... "No". !!!!! Right. Won't be expecting anything soon...

I hope yours does arrive soon!

Thanks!

I have set myself a task for before it arrives....one of my new pieces "Vaga Luna Che Inargenti" which I asked to learn even though it's grade 7 rep (because I just love it) has an easy piano acc (about grade 3, I think!). My goal is to learn that and be able to play and sing it at the same time. Something so when people ask me to sing something, I can. Going well so far!

Hope you get yours soon...might be tempted to look online for it though as it appears the shop really doesnt care about your business....

To non-musicians it looks so easy but they just don't realise!
Perhaps you will treat folks at a Forum event some time?
Good luck with that!

LOL I'd have to seriously travel to do that, but would love to if I'm ever over to coincide! Yes, it is REALLY difficult! Piano part going OK so far, struggling working out fingerings, its 25 years since I had to work stuff out! Singing part is sounding FAB after my lesson yesterday...
Thanks - and have a lovely Christmas! At least my box of music DID arrive today so I have things to play with too....

Well my Kawai has arrived (after battling it through Spanish customs for 2 days...), and it's absolutely fab! Feels like the real thing (to me, anyway) and I'm delighted. Played for a couple of hours last night and I have achy fingers today!

Thanks to all of you for your input, I couldn't be happier

Glad you're enjoying it!

Glad you are enjoying it, Dawn. Isn't red tape a pain sometimes!

Hi Dawn, great to hearthat your piano is now with you.

Spanish customs, eh? It doesn't seem too many years ago that I was an armed soldier on guard at the frontier. Your piano wouldn't have come through then!

Not very. Luggable rather than portable.

I was lucky to get a rigid case for it as a very reasonable price - and the case has wheels, which is great on lino floors, but I would not like to subject the piano the battering of running along -say - a slab pavement, even thoguh the case is well padded. The case has four handles - and there's a good reason for that - so it can be carried by two people.

I think its about 26-27 Kg, with the case, which does not sound a lot but equates to a very heavy suitcase, but it's a more awkward shape than a suitcase, and although I've added a shoulder strap - which helps a great deal - I would not want to carry it more than 50 yards without stopping for a rest. However, with two people, you could carry quite it a long way, with little difficulty. I tend to lug it from the car into the building, and then wheel it - which is generally fine.

I also returned the standard (wooden) legs, which I bought with it, and exchanged them for a much lighter and portable double "x" frame.

Edit: The FP7 itself is pretty excellent though

I'm going to spend some quality time with mine now.

LOL no, I'd have had to fly it in!! Although the border can still be a serious pain - when the guards are being jobsworth the queues are enormous!



Hope you had a good play! I get another chance tonight - and the first time to use it when teaching

thanks - it certainly was.

Reviving this thread in case anyone does a search - mr corenfa and I just went to try the Roland V-Piano, for no particular reason. Executive summary (MY OPINION ONLY) - it sounds really good, but the touch is not great.

It does seem to reproduce the grand piano sound quite accurately, including the fact that many grand pianos sound better when you're 5 feet away from the keyboard. It's very expressive and you can do a lot with it.

BUT - it is too easy to play. I sound better than I have a right to on it - intentionally played some technically hard stuff which I can't really play yet, and I could on this piano. The touch was like a cheap keyboard. Sure, it was touch-sensitive and fully weighted, but it was just too easy to play. My cheapskate Kawai (which cost 10% of the price, I kid you not) feels much more like a real piano.

My feeling is it's aimed at people who want a nice-looking piece of furniture that happens to be a digital piano and a pretty nifty gadget.

(edited to make it more clear that it's just my opinions)

Are you sure? V-Piano appears to be the finest among all DPs

I've no clue about classical music & Piano but daughter only practiced on Digital pianos and she has accomplished some level with DP, I'd say

Well, I'm sure about *my opinion*. Someone else is welcome to say differently if they've tried it. My opinion stands; it sounds good, really good, but it doesn't feel great.

My post wasn't about whether one can become a good pianist playing only on digital pianos (I think that of course it's possible with a good teacher of technique), my post was about whether I thought the Roland V-Piano was all it's supposed to be, and my opinion is that it isn't.

I've just had a good practise session with my cheapskate Kawai, which I found to have a much more satisfying touch, but of course the sound isn't as good.

The touch on a digital piano as expensive as the V-piano can be adjusted quite considerably...even our Roland can be adjusted to have a heavier touch than most of the acoustic grand pianos son plays on at university or other lessons. It sounds as if the one you tried was adjusted to a rather light touch, perhaps for demo purposes.

I tried one of these the other day and loved it. It sounded very good to me but then I'm not a proper pianist. And unfortunately it was waaaaay beyond my budget. I've been trying to upgrade my aging digital Kawai for a couple of years but they're absolutely dreadful at responding to enquiries from the only local supplier so I am still waiting.

When I first bought a digital piano I did quite a lot of research and tried everything half way decent available here. I found I liked the sound of the Kawai more than the equivalent Yamaha, which had more whistles and bells and cost nearly twice the price. The only digital pianos I liked as much as the Kawai were Rolando and they were way more expensive.

The Rolando V I tried certainly didn't seem to be too easy to play. In fact it had a heavier touch than my Kawai and felt more like an acoustic to play (and the Kawai isn't at all bad...). So I wonder whether all ears is right and the one you tried, corenfa, may have been adjusted for a lighter touch?

So in short, very nice but I will also be sticking to Kawai for now.

It felt too easy to press the notes down, which is a mechanical thing. I compared this against the (acoustic) grand pianos next to it.

I also went home and set my Kawai to the lightest touch possible to see if I could test exactly this - that made the notes easier to sound, but not easier to press mechanically. There is a certain physical weight that seems missing from the Roland. Not quite sure how to describe this.

I intentionally played some stuff that I couldn't quite manage technically normally when I went to try the VPiano. On the VPiano, it was magical and I could play it - all the fast runs, nice and crisp and clear, none of which I can play on my own piano, or my teacher's acoustic, or the Steinway that I was fortunate enough to have a go on the previous week! So I maintain that the VPiano mechanically is still easier to play, for me.

But it's a matter of what suits the individual pianist, so if anyone has 17000 GBP to spend on it and it suits them, go for it.

I agree.

It is an amazing instrument, and highly configurable. It would be an excellent piano for a working musician to take with them to venues. But it still does not replicate precisely either the feel or the response of a grand piano.

This is the first attempt in a commercially available instrument at emulating the acoustic behaviour of a piano in software, rather than using samples from a genuine acoustic, and I expect that before long we will have a digital piano that is indistinguishable in feel from the acoustic equivalent, and that gets very close to the sound of the "real thing".

There is no doubt that it is the future of electronic pianos.

I should add that my point in saying what I did isn't to make out that I am an authority on pianos (digital or otherwise), or that Brand X is better than Brand Y, but to hopefully provide one more sample point to anyone who is considering a digital.

Everyone's priorities are going to be different as are their preferences; when I was a horn student, my main instrument was one that a fair few people including my teacher said they'd never have bought. My teacher's exact words were, I'd never buy that but you seem to sound good on it, so go for it. Also, my Kawai sounds awful through the speakers; it sounds like a midi synthesized piano because the speakers are so terrible. But most of the time I play it through the headphones, so that just is not a priority for me. The instrument touch was always the most important for me when considering a digital.

Hopefully anyone reading all of this will then be better placed to think about what's most important for them - either they'll realise that they never thought about the importance of touch to them and then go and think about it, or they'll just say that it's a non issue and waste no more brain space on it.

From the 17,000 quid bit I presume this was the V-grand as opposed to the V-piano, which is about 5,000. Is that 12,000 difference noticeable?

If you didn't like the action have you tried the Avant Grands?

Yep - it was the V-grand, sorry, I should have said that. The manager said that the actions were identical and the only difference was the look of the instrument. The V-grand did look a lot nicer than the V-piano, but I don't know if I'd say it was GBP12000 worth of "nicer"!

Haven't properly tried the Avant Grand, had a meddle the last time I was at Chappell but couldn't remember anything to try it with. Should go again as Chappell is really close to my office, and I should try it with the same snippets of stuff that I tried on the Roland. I did read that the Avant Grands are supposed to have the same action as in Yamaha grand pianos, but I guess the proof will be in the trying! Will post back when I get around to it.

How much!!!!???
If I had ?5000 to spend I wouldn't be looking at a digital but I suppose that depends on circumstances.

That was sort of my reaction when i saw the price tag! (I did feel a bit that for that price, it should be able to do my tax return and mix me drinks too )

This was, after all, Harrods, so I suppose the regular clientele is prepared to spend that much.

Well Dawsons in Reading apparently has a V-grand on display, and when I think of them I think more of guitars and amps etc.

?17,000 on a digital, that is rather unbelievable

Could almost get my dream piano for that!

That is a lie ... or at least an Avant Grand does not feel the same as any Yamaha acoustic grand I have ever played. It is a nice instrument in it sown right, but as an acoustic replacement there are still many noticeable differences in feel, response and sound.