QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 10 2005, 07:45 PM)

Unless someone is tone deaf, they can usually adjust their intonation to a prevaling pitch without training and certainly can with it.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I am tone deaf.

QUOTE

But that's not perfect pitch is it?

No, my friend who had perfect pitch, you played a note and she could instantly recognise it. We even played harmonics to try and trick her, but she could hear both notes. We also played say the scale of F major but starting on a different note and she could still name the scale!

I'm not saying anything, or Rhapsodin will give me one of his "Purleeeeze" comments again!



Amber
x

QUOTE (Amber @ Jan 10 2005, 09:28 PM)

I'm not saying anything, or Rhapsodin will give me one of his "Purleeeeze" comments again! Amber x

QUOTE (Amber @ Jan 10 2005, 08:17 PM)

There again I'm just contradicting myself here. I can sing the B flat below middle C because that's the starting note for "Somewhere". And the C above middle C because that's the start of "Far from the home I love". And so on. So I can do that sort of pitching thing. But that's not perfect pitch is it? I'm feeling confused now.

That's what I call pitch memory... I don't know if there is a proper name for it! That's the same thing as me remembering an A. If you have good relative pitch as well (ie you can easily work out intervals etc - I am guessing you do, or you wouldn't be such a good singer) then using those memorised pitches you can work out other notes most probably. Which is akin to perfect pitch, but isn't it. But is a terribly useful and sometimes MORE useful skill to have So yeah... that's good

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Jan 10 2005, 12:35 PM)

DGA: as far as I understand, a person with perfect pitch would not have to count the intervals. If they hear an E, they know it's an E - they don't need the other pitch to compare it to - they would know instantly that the "B" was actually an A, but it wouldn't make any difference, because they would recognise the E even if you hadn't played them a reference note beforehand - they don't need to count the intervals. And those few people I've know with perfect pitch can indeed sight-sing, and pull a C or F or whatever out of the air. Whereas me, with passably good note-memory and a good sense of relative pitch, *could* probably find that C or F, but wouldn't be confident, and might not be accurate. In this example, I would (probably) know Cheeble was lying.... but I definitely do not have perfect pitch.

I think you misunderstood me. Yes, yes, yes, the perfect pitch person does NOT have to count intervals. But they had to IF: you made them play your game and think of D as a E or something like that, then they hear the A, they should have answered B if they had "relative pitch", but the right answer is really A. If you told them that D is G, for example, it would be much more work for them to answer A as D (again, IF they're playing your game), because they had to count the 4th first (and it would be complicated, too). Sure, they also realize intervals.

One big question: What's really the big difference of perfect pitch and memory of notes? Until now I've never realized I have perfect pitch, only my teachers said that. I thought that realizing the difference from F and F sharp was merely because I played piano a lot, and everybody else could do it.

Now, I've "regained" my perfect pitch. I'm much more confident when singing a note. So, I realize again the "colours" of each note. Not real colours, it's just a way of how they're different. If you don't think of those colours, listening to new music might be difficult, even if you have perfect pitch. E might sound like a B, C like a D, and so on. I've also realized that it's difficult to listen to these colours if you've just heard an instrument you've never heard before and you never "practice".

I think I know what you mean about "colours". I don't actually like the sound of middle C. But I really like D. Never admitted this before because I thought it was just an odd little quirk of mine.

But do other people find that they have preferences for some notes more than others?



Amber
x

QUOTE (Amber @ Jan 11 2005, 12:06 PM)

I think I know what you mean about "colours". I don't actually like the sound of middle C. But I really like D. Never admitted this before because I thought it was just an odd little quirk of mine. But do other people find that they have preferences for some notes more than others? Amber x

I dispise G# with a passion. I don't know why though.

I like middle C because it is in the middle.

See what you mean about G#!

QUOTE (Amber @ Jan 11 2005, 12:20 PM)

See what you mean about G#!

Heehee. Whereas when I tell anyone else that, they call the men in white coats.

QUOTE (DGA @ Jan 11 2005, 08:29 AM)

I think you misunderstood me. Yes, yes, yes, the perfect pitch person does NOT have to count intervals. But they had to IF: you made them play your game and think of D as a E or something like that, then they hear the A, they should have answered B if they had "relative pitch", but the right answer is really A. If you told them that D is G, for example, it would be much more work for them to answer A as D (again, IF they're playing your game), because they had to count the 4th first (and it would be complicated, too). Sure, they also realize intervals.

You're right, I must have misunderstood you somewhere because I really really don't know what you are trying to say. Someone with perfect pitch would not be fooled by that game... and as for "counting" intervals, even I don't need to do that for the major intervals because I recognise them without counting. I really don't know what you are getting at to be honest... someone who has perfect pitch, you play them any note, or any selection of notes, and they do not need a reference note, at all, even in their memory... they just know. Someone who has good relative pitch can pitch most/any notes if you give them a reference note. Someone like me can pitch a fair few notes even without an external reference, because I have the internal reference of A at approx 440 - but unlike someone with perfect pitch I would not be confident without some sort of external reference, because my "internal" reference is good but not infaillable (and my relative pitch sense could do with some brushing up, but let's not go there!!! )

If I really really practiced and trained myself so that my internal refence A was nearly or actually infaillable, and so that my relative pitch was really sharp, then for practical purposes I would "have perfect pitch", but to me that isn't the same as someone like Cheeble who has that naturally... And I might still struggle with some really obscure note way up high or way down low , and I would be very pleased if I could manage to identify all the notes in a usual chord - and doubt I would ever be able to perform the trick described by Gae up there! That, it seems,would be a good test of whether someone has perfect pitch: someone would have to work really very hard to be able to do that without perfect pitch: to those people I know who have perfect pitch, it would be easy, and even obvious. Does that explain what I mean better? and the difference between memorising what a note sounds like and having perfect pitch? which I am sure are two different things, though in some instances the apparently lesser could be more useful

I'm still at a loss about the whole counting intervals thing... I don't understand in what instance someone with true perfect pitch would end up counting intervals to do something as simple as what you have described... even if someone was trying to fool them that this note was an A, when it was a B, and they were playing along... it's only a tone out... no I really don't get where you are coming from with that one. Surely the perfect pitcher would think "well she said that was a B, so now she's playing D and expecting me to hear E". Though in what circumstances they would want to act like they were fooled... man, I am just confused, maybe... I really don't know what you are meaning by this whole counting intervals thing - I honestly don't see how that applies to someone with perfect pitch... I've tried, but I really don't know what you mean!

I like D too, it's my 'favourite note', especially third octave D, which I think sounds lovely on the flute . I absolutely hate Eb! It always sounds disgusting and I agree that G# is also not very nice on the flute!!!

OOH! I see a repeat of my poll coming on!! (Regular old favourite forumtubbies will remember this one...)

My favourite is the E above middle C... mmm...

I think D is my favourite note, though A come pretty close.

C#2 (and 3) on flute is foul! It sounds like nothing on earth, and is my only note that always sounds really out!

Definitely D.

[nods]



Amber
x

I love low Eb on the flute, and hate top G# - ergh!

ok this discussion again! fave note hmm...

piano- middle C
sax- B
flute-3rd 8ve D
clarinet- G (all ya gotta do is blow!)

D is great on the flute! and I agree that C# is horrible... takes so much effort just to make it sound even vaguely reasonable :-(

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Jan 11 2005, 05:41 PM)

QUOTE (DGA @ Jan 11 2005, 08:29 AM) I think you misunderstood me. Yes, yes, yes, the perfect pitch person does NOT have to count intervals. But they had to IF: you made them play your game and think of D as a E or something like that, then they hear the A, they should have answered B if they had "relative pitch", but the right answer is really A. If you told them that D is G, for example, it would be much more work for them to answer A as D (again, IF they're playing your game), because they had to count the 4th first (and it would be complicated, too). Sure, they also realize intervals. You're right, I must have misunderstood you somewhere because I really really don't know what you are trying to say.

Put the quoted words in the right order and you have passed the test to become a superonic jet test pilot.

Honestly, it would be easier to plait toothpaste with one hand tied behind your back than deciper that!!!!!!!

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Jan 11 2005, 05:41 PM)

You're right, I must have misunderstood you somewhere because I really really don't know what you are trying to say. Someone with perfect pitch would not be fooled by that game... and as for "counting" intervals, even I don't need to do that for the major intervals because I recognise them without counting. I really don't know what you are getting at to be honest... someone who has perfect pitch, you play them any note, or any selection of notes, and they do not need a reference note, at all, even in their memory... they just know. Someone who has good relative pitch can pitch most/any notes if you give them a reference note. Someone like me can pitch a fair few notes even without an external reference, because I have the internal reference of A at approx 440 - but unlike someone with perfect pitch I would not be confident without some sort of external reference, because my "internal" reference is good but not infaillable (and my relative pitch sense could do with some brushing up, but let's not go there!!! ) If I really really practiced and trained myself so that my internal refence A was nearly or actually infaillable, and so that my relative pitch was really sharp, then for practical purposes I would "have perfect pitch", but to me that isn't the same as someone like Cheeble who has that naturally... And I might still struggle with some really obscure note way up high or way down low  :o , and I would be very pleased if I could manage to identify all the notes in a usual chord - and doubt I would ever be able to perform the trick described by Gae up there! That, it seems,would be a good test of whether someone has perfect pitch: someone would have to work really very hard to be able to do that without perfect pitch: to those people I know who have perfect pitch, it would be easy, and even obvious. Does that explain what I mean better? and the difference between memorising what a note sounds like and having perfect pitch? which I am sure are two different things, though in some instances the apparently lesser could be more useful  ;) I'm still at a loss about the whole counting intervals thing... I don't understand in what instance someone with true perfect pitch would end up counting intervals to do something as simple as what you have described... even if someone was trying to fool them that this note was an A, when it was a B, and they were playing along... it's only a tone out... no I really don't get where you are coming from with that one. Surely the perfect pitcher would think "well she said that was a B, so now she's playing D and expecting me to hear E". Though in what circumstances they would want to act like they were fooled... man, I am just confused, maybe... I really don't know what you are meaning by this whole counting intervals thing - I honestly don't see how that applies to someone with perfect pitch... I've tried, but I really don't know what you mean!

Oh, so relative pitch is just able to realize intervals? Well, that's what I thought from the beginning. But I thought that for beginners with perfect pitch they still have to count intervals? In aural tests, I could identify any modulation, but I still had to count the interval between. Like, if it was from the key of D to B, I answered it modulated to B but then I paused for a moment, counting how many notes are there from D to B.

You also said that a perfect pitch person is able to realize a note without reference, and I think that's right. But what if a person who really has perfect pitch never gets or hears any music from when they're babies? Will their perfect pitch survive? If perfect pitch people who have never heard music for a long time could still answer and sing correctly, that would mean completely talent, no hard work. Perfect pitch would be a sort of blessing from God to have all the notes in our head or something like that. It's like this. If Einstein wasn't given any sort of education that has relation with physics, he'll never be able to discover the Relativity theory, wouldn't he? And if a person with that perfect pitch blessing has never been taught any music, and has never been taught the names of notes, of course I think that person will never be able to use his perfect pitch. You need a firm foundation before you can develop on your own. Or, at least something to start with, like knowing which notes are which before you can start using perfect pitch.

I've recently read an old music magazine, it said that EVERYONE had perfect pitch and it even offered classes so we could realize our perfect pitch. It said a lot about colours in each note.

Once again, I have a question: Is it possible for someone to have "half perfect pitch"? I can recognize notes on the piano without reference, but for singing, I need to have someone play the piano for me, any piece, so I can re-remember the colours in each note. I think those colours are a lot shaped by the chords.

QUOTE (nicki_flute @ Jan 11 2005, 09:09 PM)

and hate top G# - ergh!

Me too. But I hate G# anyway, I dispise even more the top G# on flute. And not because mine is always hideously out of tune either *nods earnestly*

QUOTE (DGA @ Jan 12 2005, 10:23 AM)

But what if a person who really has perfect pitch never gets or hears any music from when they're babies? Will their perfect pitch survive? If perfect pitch people who have never heard music for a long time could still answer and sing correctly, that would mean completely talent, no hard work.

Perfect pitch has been investigated by perceptual psychologists. Two of the results that I can remember:

1) Nearly all people with perfect pitch have been exposed to music before the age of 7, and if you do a plot of numbers against age of exposure, it shows that the earlier you hear music the more likely you are to have PP.

2) Perfect pitch is significantly more common in societies that speak a tonal language (e.g. most [all?] members of the Chinese group, such as Mandarin).

It seems that nearly all infants have the potential. Whether it is realised depends on the environment.

QUOTE (DGA @ Jan 12 2005, 10:23 AM)

You also said that a perfect pitch person is able to realize a note without reference, and I think that's right. But what if a person who really has perfect pitch never gets or hears any music from when they're babies? Will their perfect pitch survive? If perfect pitch people who have never heard music for a long time could still answer and sing correctly, that would mean completely talent, no hard work. Perfect pitch would be a sort of blessing from God to have all the notes in our head or something like that. It's like this. If Einstein wasn't given any sort of education that has relation with physics, he'll never be able to discover the Relativity theory, wouldn't he? And if a person with that perfect pitch blessing has never been taught any music, and has never been taught the names of notes, of course I think that person will never be able to use his perfect pitch. You need a firm foundation before you can develop on your own. Or, at least something to start with, like knowing which notes are which before you can start using perfect pitch.

Yes, I think perfect pitch, that sense (which some claim we all posses in potentia - it's hard to know how you could test that) has to be married with the pitch sense of the scale for it to be of any use. Being able to identify that the pitch of your washing machine was the same as the pitch of your hairdryer would I suppose be perfect pitch, but it wouldn't be very useful?!? It is possible to have perfect pitch, insofar as being able to identify the pitches, without being able to read a note, if one had been exposed to the scale but then given no actual musical training (am I making sense? lol) I think it's unusual though... I think someone who had the potential for perfect pitch was not exposed to any music etc then that potential would just never be realised. Whether the talent can be "awakened" in later life... well some say so. I think that certainly one can develop a very good pitch sense, and can get most of the useful aspects of perfect pitch by training and hard work, particularly on a particular instrument (I do know people who can tell you the pitch of a note on their instrument with no problems at all, but they do not have that pitch sense when it comes to any other instrument) but I don't personally think you can go from not having the perfect pitch which would enable you to "pass" gae's magic trick test to having it. But I'm willing to be proved wrong if someone would teach me

I don't know if I've made sense or answered what i meant to answer here, so for the moment I'll stop waffling and go do "something useful"

hmm..but how abt if u a any note from anywhere and u can instantly recognize it.. but if someone were to ask u to sing out a note it would be a little off pitch?

hmm..but how abt if u were to hear any note from anywhere and u can instantly recognize it.. but if someone were to ask u to sing out a note it would be a little off pitch?

QUOTE

hmm..but how abt if u were to hear any note from anywhere and u can instantly recognize it.. but if someone were to ask u to sing out a note it would be a little off pitch?

Then you need singing lessons!

Seriously though, just because you have perfect pitch doesn't mean that you dont still have to train yourself...to sing or play an instrument! (Does that make sense? I'm sure there's a double negative somewhere in that sentence!! )

Gae

QUOTE

I think you misunderstood me. Yes, yes, yes, the perfect pitch person does NOT have to count intervals. But they had to IF: you made them play your game and think of D as a E or something like that, then they hear the A, they should have answered B if they had "relative pitch", but the right answer is really A. If you told them that D is G, for example, it would be much more work for them to answer A as D (again, IF they're playing your game), because they had to count the 4th first (and it would be complicated, too). Sure, they also realize intervals

Of course, it all makes perfect pitch, I mean "sense" now!!...Why didn't I see that!

DGA, nothing personal, we are all guilty of doing it, but if you re-read this quickly and with your brain switched off (like I do most of the time) it does tend to come out as a conundrum of the highest order dont you think?
I know it makes sense, but my brain is still in 1st gear this morning, so it doesn't! Does that make sense?

Gae

No i don't have perfect pitch

*hits head on table*

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 16 2005, 10:40 AM)

QUOTE I think you misunderstood me. Yes, yes, yes, the perfect pitch person does NOT have to count intervals. But they had to IF: you made them play your game and think of D as a E or something like that, then they hear the A, they should have answered B if they had "relative pitch", but the right answer is really A. If you told them that D is G, for example, it would be much more work for them to answer A as D (again, IF they're playing your game), because they had to count the 4th first (and it would be complicated, too). Sure, they also realize intervals Of course, it all makes perfect pitch, I mean "sense" now!!...Why didn't I see that! DGA, nothing personal, we are all guilty of doing it, but if you re-read this quickly and with your brain switched off (like I do most of the time) it does tend to come out as a conundrum of the highest order dont you think? I know it makes sense, but my brain is still in 1st gear this morning, so it doesn't! Does that make sense? Gae

This topic has made some effect on my own perfect pitch...now I half-believe that I have perfect pitch. In fact, if it keeps going on, eventually I won't believe I have perfect pitch at all...

Another thing: I never read things with my brain switched off. Sometimes I even take humour seriously, but I'm really a joker.

This thread has been really interesting in that it's really hard to define what perfect pitch actually is.

I reckon I know that I have it, because I can do both of the following:
1) Tell what any note is if it's randomly played to me without hearing another note beforehand
2) Sing any note on demand without hearing another note beforehand

I believe that these two points together do prove that I have perfect pitch... but then maybe I'm wrong.

QUOTE (cheeble @ Jan 16 2005, 11:47 AM)

This thread has been really interesting in that it's really hard to define what perfect pitch actually is. I reckon I know that I have it, because I can do both of the following: 1) Tell what any note is if it's randomly played to me without hearing another note beforehand 2) Sing any note on demand without hearing another note beforehand I believe that these two points together do prove that I have perfect pitch... but then maybe I'm wrong.

Sounds good to me.

I can't do either of these things, and I reckon that means I haven't got it.

QUOTE (kenm @ Jan 16 2005, 12:11 PM)

I can't do either of these things, and I reckon that means I haven't got it.

Do you consider yourself as having it though? Or do you have relative pitch?

I didn't mean to imply that anyone who can't do those things doesn't have perfect pitch!

Yesterday in an AS music lesson one of my classmates said, "this keyboard's out of tune, the C is playing as a C sharp!" (It was a Clavinova so someone had put it on the Transpose function up a semitone.) This prompted the question "Do you have perfect pitch?" to which the answer was "Yes, and it's a right pain sometimes!"

A huge discussion ensued about what constitutes perfect pitch and whether it's a good thing or not, and one girl was unsure as to whether she had perfect pitch because she said she could sometimes tell what a note was when it was played and she could sometimes sing a note when asked to but she couldn't all the time. Does she then have perfect pitch sometimes and not at other times?

QUOTE (kenm @ Jan 16 2005, 12:11 PM)

[QUOTE=cheeble,Jan 16 2005, 11:47 AM]This thread has been really interesting in that it's really hard to define what perfect pitch actually is. I reckon I know that I have it, because I can do both of the following: 1) Tell what any note is if it's randomly played to me without hearing another note beforehand 2) Sing any note on demand without hearing another note beforehand I believe that these two points together do prove that I have perfect pitch... but then maybe I'm wrong.

yes, that would be my definition of perfect pitch, too. I found out from this thread that I probably have relative pitch, because I can sing any other note when someone plays a note to me (and tells me either what the note is or which interval they want). when randomly singing I sort of know which note I'm singing (give or take a step) because of the way the note feels, if that makes sense.

QUOTE (cheeble @ Jan 16 2005, 12:13 PM)

QUOTE (kenm @ Jan 16 2005, 12:11 PM) I can't do either of these things, and I reckon that means I haven't got it. Do you consider yourself as having it though? Or do you have relative pitch?

I know I don't have it in any useful form. The nearest I get is that if I hear a radio announcement that a piece is to be played that I know very well, I will often imagine its opening bars, and (without counting) I would guess that I hear it at the right pitch more often than 1 in 12, but nowhere near 100%. Of course I have relative pitch in the sense of being able to recognise intervals by sound and to sing them. This combined with recognising intervals in notation and by name adds up to the ability to sing most tonal and some atonal music at sight, to take dictation, and to notate what I hear in my head.

QUOTE

I didn't mean to imply that anyone who can't do those things doesn't have perfect pitch!

These are the main forms it takes. Off hand, I can't think of any others.

QUOTE

really hard to define what perfect pitch actually is. I reckon I know that I have it, because I can do both of the following: 1) Tell what any note is if it's randomly played to me without hearing another note beforehand 2) Sing any note on demand without hearing another note beforehand I believe that these two points together do prove that I have perfect pitch... but then maybe I'm wrong.   yes, that would be my definition of perfect pitch, too.

Mine too.

I can do the first one, but here's what I find interesting - the second one only sometimes. So it's not quite perfect pitch - although when I was going through college it was always reliable enough to be thought of as perfect pitch.

When I had a really bad cold recently, and my hearing was affected for a week or two, my pitch was similarly skewed. One day, I even wondered if someone had used the transpose facility on my clavinova. (Not me - I can't remember how to do it!)

I found that really weird.

Maggie

QUOTE

Yesterday in an AS music lesson one of my classmates said, "this keyboard's out of tune, the C is playing as a C sharp!" (It was a Clavinova so someone had put it on the Transpose function up a semitone.) This prompted the question "Do you have perfect pitch?" to which the answer was "Yes, and it's a right pain sometimes!"

I can do this and I dont have perfect pitch. If a piano is tuned a semitone or tone down and I play on it, I instantly know that its transposed by the colour of the key. In fact, if I try and play a piece that I have memorized and the piano is transposed, it totally throws me off and I struggle to get through as I am relying on a particular sound to come from the key. When its different, it knocks my expectation off kilt...I must be getting pretty close to perfect pitch. Maybe playing the Harp will push me a bit further!! I was tuning it by ear the other day and noticed that I was getting it within about -0.07 Hz when I kept checking it on the tuner. Not quite up to your level yet Rhapsodin but I'm getting there!!

Gae

QUOTE (kenm @ Jan 16 2005, 04:11 AM)

QUOTE (cheeble @ Jan 16 2005, 11:47 AM) This thread has been really interesting in that it's really hard to define what perfect pitch actually is. I reckon I know that I have it, because I can do both of the following: 1) Tell what any note is if it's randomly played to me without hearing another note beforehand 2) Sing any note on demand without hearing another note beforehand I believe that these two points together do prove that I have perfect pitch... but then maybe I'm wrong. Sounds good to me. I can't do either of these things, and I reckon that means I haven't got it.

Yeah...I think that's a good definition of perfect pitch (absolute pitch) and I have it too!

I'd agree with Cheeble's definition of perfect pitch: it is effectively the ability to recall the precise (absolute) frequency of a sound wave without the need for a reference either by hearing the pitch or by being asked to sing it. Surely those who can tell by listening could fairly easily sing any note they're asked for even if they have to sing one note say right that's a G (or whatever) and then say I wanted a B so that's up a major third so they can do the second one: it doesn't matter how you do it just that you can do it. Perfect pitch does have the word perfect though: it's 100% accurate (as sure as you are that a red dot is red, remembering of course that we don't allow reddy-orange, e.g. a note that's between G and G#, in music).

As many people have said I don't think that being able to say if something is the right key constitutes perfect pitch: I can tell if pieces are in the wrong key or if a piano is transposed and I don't have perfect pitch (although admittedly one would have to play part of a piece rather that one note on the piano for me to tell. otherwise that would be perfect pitch). I think that is more to do with the intervals between the notes being slightly different due to temprement in different keys which can give the feeling of not quite right, hence in the wrong key.

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 16 2005, 10:30 AM)

QUOTE hmm..but how abt if u were to hear any note from anywhere and u can instantly recognize it.. but if someone were to ask u to sing out a note it would be a little off pitch? Then you need singing lessons! Seriously though, just because you have perfect pitch doesn't mean that you dont still have to train yourself...to sing or play an instrument! (Does that make sense? I'm sure there's a double negative somewhere in that sentence!! ) Gae

actually Gae has a point here, in that reproducing a sound with your voice could actually be a problem even if you had perfect pitch. but generally I think Cheeble's definition is a pretty good one, and if you consistently can't do this then... can you hum notes in tune? ie is it a singing problem or a pitching problem?

I think people are generally, though not always, more able to guess pitches correctly on their main instrument, because it's just more familiar. I know a lot of people who do not have perfect pitch who do *effectively* have perfect pitch on their own instrument, if you know what I mean.

Maggie: my sense of pitch often goes haywire with a cold... once when me and a friend were singing in church and I was playing the harp I was having real trouble tuning the harp and couldn't hear when I was singing out of tune, fortunately it mostly cleared up before we had to sing, but it was a horrible feeling.

DGA: I tried to read it with my brain switched on but I honestly did not have a clue what you were trying to say until you rephrased it (and even then it was a tad confusing) - but then my brain only works at about half-speed at the best of times, so it doesn't mean it was *entirely* you....

I am certain that I do not have perfect pitch, however I can do both the things Cheeble said *some* of the time... but not all of the time and not 100% reliable. Which I think has to do with long term musical training, largely or entirely... Even those of us mere mortals who don't have perfect pitch can get better at our sense of pitch, which is reassuring, eh? *grin*

QUOTE (cheeble @ Jan 16 2005, 11:47 AM)

This thread has been really interesting in that it's really hard to define what perfect pitch actually is. I reckon I know that I have it, because I can do both of the following: 1) Tell what any note is if it's randomly played to me without hearing another note beforehand 2) Sing any note on demand without hearing another note beforehand I believe that these two points together do prove that I have perfect pitch... but then maybe I'm wrong.

Sometimes I can't sing any note without singing it off-tune. I can realize and recognize keys and notes easily on the piano without any reference, but when singing, sometimes A is sang instead of C, and so on. BUT, I can sing my favourite pieces in exactly the right pitch (or I think I can). Like, the Grave of the Pathetique sonata, I won't sing it in A minor! But not pieces that I hear once in a while. And I can usually sing correctly after hearing a lot of music. It's the same with humming, so it's not a singing problem.

I agree with sarah-flute's opinion about having able to guess pitches correctly on my main instrument, but not always the whole orchestra. Maybe because the orchestra almost always plays in chords.

Well, I think that my badly phrased paragraph there was accidently written anyway. I just wanted to assure that perfect pitch people do recognize intervals.

I don't think I have perfect pitch. I sort of figure out the note by hearing another note first and working up or down from that note in the chromatic scale. Any ideas if you can learn to be perfect-pitched?

i once stumbled across a course on the internet that claimed it could teach anybody perfect pitch. i don't remember where though it was a while ago. myself, me thinks it was a scam and i value what little bits of cash i have too much anybody heard of anything similar? or whether they work?

i have quite good relative pitch- would love to have perfect but i don't think any number of courses could teach it too me

QUOTE (Wobby @ Jan 17 2005, 01:53 PM)

I don't think I have perfect pitch. I sort of figure out the note by hearing another note first and working up or down from that note in the chromatic scale. Any ideas if you can learned to be perfect-pitched?

A tip for developing relative pitch is to buy a tuner, and every now and then, try to sing the note A. Then turn on your tuner and see how much you're off by. Like this, once you can figure out A, then you can figure out any note pretty quickly.

QUOTE (oddy @ Jan 17 2005, 10:15 PM)

i once stumbled across a course on the internet that claimed it could teach anybody perfect pitch. i don't remember where though it was a while ago. myself, me thinks it was a scam and i value what little bits of cash i have too much anybody heard of anything similar? or whether they work?

I've seen some, and frankly they seem a load of rubbish.

oddy- ive seen that on the net too!

seems like a scam to me... you can learn to have a better sense of pitch, but I don't think you can learn perfect pitch...

Yes, they're usually scams. I'd like to believe that one can learn perfect pitch but I've never met or heard of anyone who claims to actually have learnt it when they didn't have it before....

the one i saw was from america,and claimed that a person had suddenly got perfect pitch,through using this course, in a short space of time. errr....yeah whatever!