QUOTE(jod @ Mar 30 2011, 03:22 PM)
QUOTE(elephant @ Mar 30 2011, 04:06 PM)
I'd like to enter a robust plea (if that's not an oxymoron) for anglicisation of foreign words.
I've heard Beethoven pronounced by Germans and it sounds different from the received English pronunciation I use, and I doubt if I get Tchaikovsky, Dostoevsky, Machiavelli, Ueshiba or Ghandi "right" either.
French words seem to be a particular focus for this, but the "mee" in "Meeshlin", as suggested in another post, isn't really like a French "Mi" (and I don't know what we're supposed to make of the "lin"; if the suggestion for pronunciation is as in the name "Lin", then it's way off). French and English are very different and, in my experience, it requires a considerable (buccal) gymnastic effort to mix the two, usually producing what is, to my mind (ears), a pretty ugly result.
Why bother. Received pronunciation is fine. And at least it avoids interrupting the flow of a sentence in a (usually failed) attempt to get one's tongue around an alien set of sounds
P.S. I make an exception where getting "near enough" is concerned. For example, the question about "Poulenc", and the reply "ank" are OK. "######-lank" (however unfortunate it may look for the poor man in English) is near enough to be understood by both English and French speakers, whereas "######-lonk" would sound wrong. (The censored bits were like the name of the famous (Pooh) bear but without the final 'h').
P.P.S. Does this post win the award for the largest number of brackets ever used?
.. of course if I could have written it properly in international phonetic alphabet it would make proper sense, I pronounce French very nicely having taken a lot of time to adapt my mouth shape to suit (it's a singer thing!)
I didn't for one second intend to imply that only French folk do French properly, and the English English, the Germans German and so on, and of course you're right that some people are better at developing pronunciation than others. My "plea" was a general one.
Since you raise the point, I think the phonetic alphabet is an interesting animal: even if you'd used it, the French "i" is pretty near (or just beyond) the borders of a normal English perceptual set, which means that the degree to which an English speaker would reproduce the intended sound would still be limited by that set (+ of course, any additional linguistic experience)... Way, way back, before I requalified and got into my current field, I did a linguistics degree, so it's not just a "singer thing".....
QUOTE(fsharpminor @ Mar 30 2011, 03:15 PM)
All this is very pedantic !
And yet more pedantic (see post above) !!!
I think I've had enough for today !!!