It reminds me of an inflatable castle, that was used prolifically in the south of England in the late 70s/80s, called 'Koncord Kastle'. The little b-c knew this was a wrong spelling of 'castle'...

but didn't pick up on the Koncord?

Krikey!

How many 6/7 year olds know what that means?

Here you go, Cyrilla

Thanks, Baz .

I wanted to resurrect this thread in order to have a bit of a discussion about something that's been bugging me lately...the thorny question of '-ise' or '-ize'.

I was certainly taught the former, and have always thought of the latter as being 'the American spelling'. I have discovered that the latter is probably more 'old English'...someone I know says that it is a 'generation thing' as she (early 70s) and a 98 year old friend were both definitely taught '-ize' (but I've asked my 83 year old dad and he was taught '-ise'!).

Another friend tells me that PG Wodehouse used '-ize'.

I know that both forms are acceptable now but I still hate '-ize' and to me it definitely seems American.

Over to all you good people who might have opinions/knowledge on the matter!

Like you, Cyrilla, I thought the "-ize" was an Americanism. For that reason, I always use the "-ise" spelling, which is what I was taught. OH (ex-grammar-school-boy) was taught the same, and always complains when he sees "-ize" because he also considers it as yet another American corruption creeping into our language. But then, it's a living language, and I suppose that is one of the symptoms of it.

I always correct my students spellings to be -ise rather than -ize too

Often the American spelling is the old English spelling. An example is 'aluminum' which was the original English spelling. The English later changed it to aluminium so that it would correspond with other elements ending in 'ium' but the Americans retained the original spelling.

I've just had a quick look in Fowler's Modern English Usage.
Words ending in -ise and derived from French must always be spelt -ise.
Where both -ize and -ise are permissible, the convention is that Oxford University Press and American publishing houses use -ize, and Cambridge University Press and English publishing houses use -ise.

There is more, but that's the gist of it

I went to grammar school in the 70s and we were generally taught -ize. I realised a while ago that a number of so-called 'Americanisms' are in fact retention of older usage (e.g. 'gotten'). There are, of course, some abominations....

Meanwhile, today, in a presentation I went to: process's. What, is that apostrophe doing? Indicating the elision of the missing 'e'? Technically correct, but pointless. Or, more likely, indicating some perverse possessive genitive of 'process'?

You have a more modern 'Fowler' than I do! The advice on words of French origin is at odds with what I do (organization, etc). I've worked for many UK publishers and almost all of them use -ize. It IS English-English (although I think the National Curriculum uses -ise for spellings, so it won't last). Whether you use -ize or -ise depends on the origin of the word - Greek -izo or not - so if you have a good grounding in the classics you'll not have a problem. For the ill-educated (yours truly), you just remember which words are spelt -ise. My 'Fowler' gives a list of the common ones.

[My 'Fowler' is also an advocate of using -ize, saying the only reason for not doing so is having to remember the exceptions!]

American use of -ize differs in that they use it more often; e.g. I'd write advertise and analyse.



Well, it could 'a process's shortcomings' or something of that sort. But if you are thinking it should have been 'processes' you're probably right! (likely right?!)

Yes, in the context, it was 'processes'

Two guys in Antigua, have been sentenced to 'three consecutive life sentences' !

The comma? :S

Dear pedants, when it comes to practise and practice, please remember that as higher functioning dyslexic who can not spell, I can tell the difference between a noun and a verb, I just can't spell. I also have sleep problems so at times my brain goes on the blink.

Currently on bbc news site ...

MISELTOE

I put this on the Aaaaaaaaargh thread but, thanks to corenfa, I'm putting it here as well:

I received an e-mail from a head teacher today, which read:

sorry i was out yesturday (sic)

Maybe they'd had a really p.oo-ey day

Seeing as this thread was resurrected, I thought I'd also resurrect the how-to-pronounce-brand-names part of the thread.

Where do people (and Adidas, for that matter) stand on Adidas?

As the company is named after the founder whose name was Adi Dassler, I've always assumed it is pronounced ADD-i-DASS, though most people seem to pronounce it uh-DEE-duss.

Eh? I've never heard uh-DEE-duss. It's obviously ADD-i-DASS, though some say a-DEE-das (which is patently rubbish isn't it?).

So where do we stand on Porsche?

[/quote]
So where do we stand on Porsche?
[/quote]

I vote porsh. I would guess that porsh-a is more correct, but it sounds too try-hard to me.

Do you want the correct German version for both?

adee-dass (closest approximation - the German A in that context is rather short, somewhere between an Ah and Uh, it's a reduced vowel, the IPA symbol for it is actually a), no stress on the syllable in the middle, slight stress on the first.

Porsha, a slight stress on the first syllable, and again the last vowel is a reduced one, somewhat a narrower version of (a). The IPA symbol is a reversed/rotated e.

I think it would be easier to explain if I'd just say it and attach a soundfile

Round here, the challenge for visitors is pronouncing Cholmondeley.....

Ah, yes, insider knowledge, maybe on this - I grew up not so far from where you are, and we knew a family with that name, so I guess the pronunciation is the same?

I've always been puzzled by the brand Braun, and find it weird in shops when everyone calls it ' Brorn'.

Is Cholmondeley pronounced Chumley?
I thought Braun was pronounced Brorn - what's the correct pronunciation?

Most people in UK say Brawn, but as its surely a german name , it should be 'Brown'

Yes Chumley for Cholmondeley. Coloon for Colquohoun. Fanshaw for Featherstonehaugh. Urcott for Urquhart.

Why is Menzies 'Mingies' ??

The Yorkshire town of Slaithwaite is pronounced locally as Slowwit (as I 'ow' it hurts), and there are similar examples like Linfit for Linthwaite

Braun have always advertised themselves as 'Brawn' in the UK. We don't pronounce all foreign origin names as the country of origin does - Mercedes, for example.

I am sure each locality has its peculiarities to confuse the visitors. The common one round here is Launceston, colloquially "Larnson", but the most peculiar is Woolfardisworthy. Any guesses? It's Woolsery to the locals.

Andante in C - yes, I wondered if that were the case. I suppose 'brawn' gives the impression of a solid and tough design ..?

f#minor - re Menzies, I heard the answer to that one once, but only half remembered - I think it was something to do with an archaic letter which has only approximations in our English alphabet.

My wife wears a lot of Gabor shoes. Everyone I know says GaBORR. (Probably after the acrtess Zsa Zsa Gabor) However when they ran a TV ad a while back it was clearly supposed to be GAYbor.

There are several letters which have diappeared over time, such as thorn, which in part gives rise to various pieces of nonsense such as the pervasive use of 'ye' for 'the'. Now you wouldn't say 'You New Shop', so why does 'You Old Shop' become 'Ye Olde Shoppe'?

In Germany, Lidl rhymes with needle , rather than fiddle. You would certainly get some very strange looks if you tried that pronunciation in Streatham.

On the other hand I was always amused by "Vullvort" in Germany.

Many years ago I recall a problem when the product 'Vick' was going to be launched in Germany, they had to call it 'Wick', otherwise it would sound like a naughty word.

It's a Hungarian name (equivalent of Gabriel) and certainly not pronounced Gaybor - it's just Gabor, with the emphasis on the first syllable and the 'a' making a slight 'ah' sound (it should have an acute accent but the silly forum won't let me ).



I've just read a school newsletter (C of E school) that announces the retirement of Cannon David...

Altogether now....









Was he fired?

I'll get me coat...

Last week one of our local Grammer schools had an open night.

And I understand that the Rolls Royce Silver Cloud was originally going to be marketed as the Silver Mist.

Unfortunately in Germany, mist (or misst? / mi?t possibly? - someone may like to correct this if I'm wrong) means something else and they had to rethink the name.

(wonder if that will come out on a forum post!)

(ed, no, it didn't)

I went past a hairdressers today and in the window it advertised the Ladie's Department.

They were offering a full head of colour's, aswell as perm's.The equivalent to the grocers apostrophe but for hairdressers.

Loz xx

yup. Mist is dung.
I can't say "brawn" for Braun - it just feels wrong to do so.

Menzies/Mingies - actually there are some families who do pronounce it Men-zees - in the neck of the woods in which I work, I have to ask which pronunciation people want. There is also the name Lamont, which people persistently pronounced La-mont, where locally it'd be pronounced Lamment, with the stress on the first syllable.
More Scottish ones - Cockburn....co-burn, and Milngavie.... moo-guy. On the other hand, Scots also pronounce "wh" with a blowing noise, so that where and wear sound different from each other.

At the moment I have fun and games with our many immigrant patients' names - I found a website which will generate for me a pronunciation for anything Polish I care to throw at it, but we also have many Africans: sometimes I find myself rehearsing a name three or four times before attempting to produce it in the waiting room: one time I got the very surprised reply, "hey, that was rather good, do it again".....but couldn't .

The new school year started two days ago in the Southern Hemisphere. First missive sent on first day informed me that it would be 'usefull' if I 'could' read and send back a signed form confirming that I had read the uniform rules. I was sorely tempted to comment but came to the conclusion that I would prefer my child to fall out with this teacher without my help. As this child at five years old told her class teacher that she had spelt 'scissors' wrong on the board I am expecting a row to erupt fairly soon.

Anacrusis, thanks. Brawn feels wrong to me too (and I only did a couple of years at school!)

New names - I have fun with new enquiries too. I find part of the trick is getting away from 'English' concepts of vowels and dipthongs, and will give it my best shot, although at the end of the day it's often guesswork.

At the church where I sing in the choir, the priest often struggles with reading the names for banns (of marriage). He's been known to add 'thank God I haven't got to attempt that one again' after the third time of asking.

All together, no?

(Hope I'm allowed to say this as it is the pedants' thread... )


The equivalent to the what????

Haha . (oops)

Altogether - no, it's alto - gether, something to do with singers

Interesting little interlude on R4 this morning where they discussed the pronunciation of Coca Cola in the Far East - not sure if it was China - wasn't quite wide enough awake to listen properly.

I have problems with some Irish names - I can cope with Niamh and Roisin (although I always have to visualise it as Rowsheen) and Siobhan, but I worked for a while in a school where there were a large number of Irish names and I really couldn't remember how to pronounce them.

That said, I have difficulties getting the emphasis right when I say Maghull and I'm still corrected for my pronunciation of Meols Cop, although I've been married to a Southporter for 25+ years. (The first time I said "Maghull" was on the phone to a policeman. I had to have several goes, and still didn't get it right. He was chortling away merrily by the time I gave up. )

I didn't catch that one. If find it all too easy to type homonyms (actually I don't - I had to look it up ). I mean that, when typing, because I type the sound I hear in my head, homonyms creep in without my noticing them.