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Among my pupils, I'd say I have a few pushy mums - these are the ones who actually verbalise the pushiness in front of me, or in front of (other) teachers at school. Dad's appear (to me) to be more laid back, although I have heard that one father is rather a perfectionist (he never gives me that impression).

At home here, OH is one who will talk about needing to work hard, get good grades etc.

I'm just as keen for offspring to do well, but also am very conscious that opening my mouth on the subject is counter-productive. I do it more subtly, like gently suggesting that they might like to get up earlier (they're teenagers) so they don't leave all their homework til the end of half term (or whatever!)

Often the dads that I know have huge expectations but do not put the work in, so it is left to the mother to keep a tight ship and they end up looking pushy when there is silent pressure from the top down!

Thankfully not my scenario, may I add!

It isn't gender specific in my experience. I've had equal numbers of pushy Mums and Dads. Thankfully they are few and far between.

I am reminded of one dad who seemed to operate what I thought of as Seagull Management.

???Seagull management. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but, wot?!

Flaps in, creates a fuss, c###s over everything and flaps out again.

I like it!

Yup, I guessed there would be s**t in there somewhere...

I'm an angry parent today..,... Does that make me pushy or supportive

It's frustrated angry and not with my child

I can't say any more so don't ask

..

Took me a while to think about this one! For a start, terms like "pushy" are so loaded that they no longer have any useful descriptive value. As an expat, I'm a "slack parent" in terms of where I live, and a "pushy parent" in terms of where I grew up. Son's music will matter to him long after my parenting (whether pushy or slack!) ceases to interest anybody at all.

Dads who have huge expectations but don't put the work in...that is a very common scenario, and I feel lucky that DH will chivvy our boys and growl at them if need be, but he's always aware of what their actual level is at present.

Looking at my DH's support style, I think it's more a case of Dad taking longer to warm up. However, once DH has decided that music was something he would support, then that was it. Minor ups and downs don't come into it, and son's achievements matter less to him than whether or not son has a steady desire to pursue music.

I am the dad without music training. I do send my child to music lessons, sit through the lessons. I send the older one to orchestra practice. I make sure the kids do not forget to practice their musical instruments daily, I do sit with my children during their daily music practice, I do encourage them with the bits they have difficulty with, I look through their repertoire, I discuss their progress with their teachers, I buy the required books and pieces for them. I discuss with he teachers when they would like my kids to do exams, or to skip them altogether.

Does that make me a pushy dad? My musically experienced wife is simply chilled.

I don't think so! I suspect most of the parents who have children doing well in music do this. When they are young there is only so much they have the ability to oirganise for themselves. At GCSE time we have to be supporting them again as they are under so much pressure.

I wonder if this is the reason there appears to be more pushy parents. We have to stay in our childrens lives longer than we would have done in the past. I know sometimes I feel like my daughter's secretary because she doesn't have time to do her own admin

No, I don't think so either - just sounds supportive.

One of my (now ex-) mums used to say that she felt like her kids' secretary.

I don't like the term pushy. What is pushy to one parent would be lack of care/ effort and even neglect to another. It is too subjective.

However there does seem to be a greater number of parents who are trying to steer their children in a certain direction or at least give them the tools to be able to succeed at the opportunities that come available to them. I think this is because parents have more knowledge now and through the internet they see opportunities that could be available to their children. The average parent used to go with the flow, send DC to the local school, generally not progress further than primary school music and put complete trust in all teachers.

Today, parents are more aware of academic/music bursaries available and the best way to achieve them, usually through tutoring or extra courses. So our behaviour has changed as we now have more input into our children's lives. As long as it's not taken too far then I don't think it is a bad thing. I came from a very disadvantaged background and I know that the prep schools that my son's are in now (both on major scholarships) should give them better opportunities in life. I also worked out very quickly that Bassoon was one of the best instruments for a senior school bursary although I would never have forced DS to play it if he didn't like it. Is that pushy? I think it's strategic and I am not pushing for him to be a top class musician because as far as I'm concerned he can drop all music when he gets to senior school should he so wish. Now I don't see that happening and it would be disappointing if he did but music for me has always been a means to an end. I hope it isn't for DS and I don't think it is because he sings all day and his fingers are constantly playing imaginary instruments and he is so stubborn that he refuses to do anything he dislikes!

But there are plenty of boys that can sing better than DS and their parents wouldn't even consider choristerhips or music lessons. We must seem very pushy to these parents. Then there is the parent whose DC are at junior conservatoires and may think I am not doing enough or wasting my child's talent because being at school on a Saturday means that DS could not join a conservatoire. Such a parent may feel I am not pushy enough.

I suppose my flawed definition of pushiness would be a parent that forced a child to the point of exhaustion, to not give a child enough down time, to get angry when a child did not perform well and to force a child to do something that they truly hated. Ok, so what kid wants to do practice? But that's not what I mean. If DS came to me and said he no longer wanted to play bassoon then I would ask him to give it 3 months, try and find out the reasons and work out how we could fix it and then if he still didn't want to do it he could give up. But I don't allo my children to drop something, or take up a new activity without making sure they know the consequences of starting/giving up such an activity.

It's a pity we have to live life forwards and don't have the benefit of hindsight! Once you know what is truly important to your child, you can look back and see times when you were too pushy and others when you weren't pushy enough! I think provided you are pushing the teacher on behalf of your child, rather than pushing the child via the teacher, it's OK. We all try to do the best for our children, and sometimes that involves being pushy.

Yeay! A Dad posting on this topic - and a nonmusical suppushy Dad at that! Hello No, I don't think you sound pushy either. Interesting that your more musical wife is more laid back - check out the "nightmare parent" thread on teachers at the moment!



1)Definitely agree - that's why I put pushy/supportive on the thread title - I would say that 'supportive' means helping to carry a child towards where they want to go themselves and 'pushy' means you have your own agenda and keep on shoving the poor kid when you meet resistance.

2)We are in exactly the same position in the tonedeafhouse. B1 has two instrument playing friends of similar age and probable potential. One girl has very laid back parents who let her skip practice almost every day in holiday time, regularly go away at weekends without packing the instrument and are quite happy to see very slow progress on the first instrument and practically none at all on the second (this child has yet to reach Grade 1 standard on piano in the same time it has taken B1 to approach Grade 5). They are lovely people and try very hard not to call me pushy. The other girl has a very determined mother with a very forthright attitude. I remember sitting outside an exam room being quizzed by her on every detail of B1's musical education to date - and she then asked me - do I not worry that, at this rate, B1 may not have achieved Grade 8 before she has to start studying for her GCSEs? Would I call her pushy? Possibly not - her daughter seems very happy and well adjusted. Would she call me not pushy enough? Suspect that that is just what she was doing.

3)Huzzah for MusicalNitWit. I know that it's none of my business but I do get irritated by the way so many children are allowed to pick up and drop a dozen different activities! If one of my children starts complaining about a particular club or activity I always tell them we'll discuss it during the next end of term holiday and if they still want to quit then that's fine but I warn them they will not be allowed to restart without a very good reason indeed. So far only the Brownies has been dropped. As far as I can tell, completely without regret.

Sounds similar to me. I've no musical background but do help with repertoire, finding performing venues and opportunities. Also take daughter around all the after school sessions. Never tried to push, but make sure she doing her home works correctly which assigned by music / kumon teacher.