I am genuinely interested as I cannot fathom, without trying to sound controversial, why a parent would do this. I noticed that one music school takes children from the age of 8 and another from the age of 10. Surely this cannot be child led and even if it was how can a child make such a decision to have such a narrowly focused education. Yes they may still get an academic education but they are surrounded by pupils and parents with one main focus. I could understand at the age of 16, but 8-10?

I think there are a small number of children who genuinely know what they want to do with their lives aged 8 (my son was one of them - he decided at 7 and stuck with it ever since), and perhaps music is one of those areas where children do show early promise and can start to develop serious skills even at the tender age of 8. However, I would imagine that there are also a fair number of very ambitious parents in the mix as well. Presumably the focus of the education is still very general at this stage, but with lots of music on offer in addition?

SueHM beat me to it

Emsoboe started playing properly at 10, she knew by 11 that's what she wanted to do as a career. I'm not saying we genuinely thought at nearly 16 she would be still saying the same thing. She had tried various other hobbies and when she was prepared to give them up to play in various ensembles we knew she was serious about it.

I always say with music at any time she can get off the career path at and take skills with her into whatever she decides. It would be almost impossible for her to have got on that path had she left it until her early teens.

Not everyone who goes to a music school will end up following a career in music. From what I can gather they get a reasonably rounded education with music on top.

Some children are sent to boarding school because the parents jobs move, eg army families. A lot of children start at a school that has boarders and just board a couple of nights a week, in the expectation that they will board full time later on, when parents circumstances / jobs require it. If you are faced with finding a boarding school and your child is playing and enjoying music why not look at a music school.

The music specialist school near me is a normal school as well- so a specialist musician who is that young does get a ' normal' education too! They can just get first class music tuition and support at the same time!

There are a few schools such as Wells that are normal schools but I don't think a full time music school for an 8 year old is wise, and I don't mean a choir school. Just because DC seems sure at 8 or 11 I would never take their word for it. They may feel that way but they have very little life experience to make such a decision. DS is adamant that he will join the army but how many kids say they want to do X,Y,Z and never go down that route. There are also plenty of musicians who have gone to normal schools and achieved good musical careers.

As for why not a music school if choosing a boarding school? Well the atmoshphere is not rounded. They may do the usual GCSEs and A'levels but they are not mixing with a wide variety of children and they are not being exposed to the real world. I feel it is a disservice to take that opportunity from a child. Even if a child is adamant that they know what they want by a young age I would be saying to them that if that is still the case when they are 16 then they can go down that route. Maybe the young ones that "knew" and then went to music schools never got to "know" the other side of life so they think they knew when they didn't as they did not make an informed decision.

I have a colleague who was described by another parent as "very musically ambitious for his daughters". The younger of the two went to specialist music school very young (and is still there), and her elder sister followed her to a different specialist music school at 13. The elder daughter took A levels last year and is now studying chemistry at Oxford having decided she does not want to be a musician. It would appear that the "narrowly focussed education" didn't do her too much harm, though her father (also a chemist) may be a bit disappointed about the eventual outcome!

As for why the younger daughter ended up at music school so young, I suspect it was largely driven by her, at least after she had had the opportunity to visit the school in question. She seemed to be very capable and self reliant from a very young age - as well as extremely musical. Her father has generally advanced only rather flimsy and flippant reasons for sending her - for instance that it was the easiest way to change a teacher with whom they were unhappy! However, her parents did do some research into conservatoires when both daughters were very young and concluded, rightly or wrongly, that the music school route gave these girls the best chance of getting into, and succeeding at, conservatoire.

Halka, choosing a different career to music after music school does not prove that the school is rounded. How can it be when the parents and pupils main focus is music.

But you have proved my point. The career she decided on was Chemistry. The job her father did as this was probably the only other experience she had to draw on.

Iz difficult for me to zee vvhy parentz vvould zend a child avvay to zchool for vvhatever reazon, but I think it very much dependz on the kind of child they're rearing, and on their ovvn cultural conziderationz - in a background vvhere it iz normal to do that, I guezz a child "needz" to go to ztay in their ovvn cultural milieu: any zchool vvill tend to have limitationz on the experience it can provide for a child - zome provide the mozt advanced education at the expenze perhapz of zocial mix, otherz provide the zocialization but find it tricky to give quite the zpecialized input a child might need to make the abzolute mozt of a particular interezt. There are only a fevv zortz of zuch zpecialized education: vve found ourzelvez having to conzider vvhether either of our tvvo might vvant to get formal training in ballet, after both got junior azzociatezhipz vvith Zcottizh Ballet, and to be frank vvere a bit relieved that the older one got diabetez juzt before applicationz vvere due to go in....for me, kidz grovv up zo very quickly that zending them off to another tovvn or city for their education iz mizzing out on much that parentz can give their offzpring in the vvay of r?le modelling vvhat I zee az normal family life . The academic education in the big ballet zchoolz doez zeem to be rather limited though: vvith muzic zchoolz it'z lezz uniform, and in placez actually very good, from vvhat I underztand.
Overall - I'd not do it, even if my kidz had been very much more muzical than they are: but that iz becauze of my ovvn qualmz about handing my kidz over to otherz to rear, az vvell az a vvizh to zee them underztanding a bit more about the breadth of zociety. Alzo - I'm vvary of overzpecialization early, zimply becauze in dayz vvhen jobz don't lazt az long az they did, a bit of flexibility can come in rather handy. I'd be ztuffed if I couldn't do my job az a GP - I've no training for anything elze. My kidz at leazt are keeping their optionz open...

Just had a quick look at the leavers' destinations for Purcell School and Chetham's. Chet's say about two-thirds of their leavers go to conservatoires, so that still leaves a third doing things other than music. Both they and Purcell school seem to get kids into Oxbridge every year as well, in all sorts of subjects, so they can't be doing too badly on the general educational front. I'm not sure boarding at a specialist music school is socially very different from boarding anywhere else - possibly even more diverse social mix, because of the number of scholarships and bursaries available at music schools?

I agree that in terms of financially social a music school may be more diverse but even at a top independent school there will be musicians, sportsmen, academics, none of the above and a huge number who do not live and breathe music. I wonder what the 1/3 that didn't opt for a music career at Purcell feel? Maybe they felt limited by their narrow education, unless they are going to Oxbridge to study music, of course!

Well, actually although her father trained in chemistry he doesn't work as a chemist, so I'm not sure your conclusion is justified. Also, the girl in question has a mother, and both mother and daughter are both accomplished horsewomen, so I do not think it is at all true that her father's job is the only other experience she had to draw on.

I was not at all trying to suggest that the fact she has gone on to study chemistry, rather than music meant the school was "rounded", but just that the emphasis on music had not proved an obstacle to her going on to study something entirely different at a very good university.

For myself, I would not ever have considered sending my child off to music school at 8 for exactly the kind of reasons you mention. I would be too concerned that more doors were closed than opened by doing this.

Who knows.... maybe they feel lucky to have been able to pursue what was ultimately a hobby to a very high level. Just because they go off to Uni to study something else doesn't mean they won't return to music as a post-grad, perform or teach later in life, and continue to derive a lot of pleasure (and perhaps a social life) from their music.

I'm not a huge fan of music schools, by the way, and actively discouraged a student of mine who was thinking of applying, precisely because I felt he had too many other things going for him, and it wouldn't have been right to focus exclusively on music. I just think it probably feels right for some people. Going back to your original point about 8 year olds - I'd certainly need some convincing that a specialist education was sensible at that age, but I don't think you can generalise - kids who genuinely benefit from it are probably pretty unusual and don't fit the conventional mould.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who went to a specialist school at a young age.....?

It's an interesting question, actually. But three of our most famous violinists, that is, Nigel Kennedy, Nicola Benedetti and Tasmin Little all went to the Yehudi Menuhin school, so if it's a performance career you're after, it just might be the right way forward! I wonder if they are happy?

I think it's very difficult if you have an extremely talented child, and many of these children are working at diploma level by the time they are ten. It would I am sure, seem like such an incredible waste of talent not to seek out the best teachers, etc, and actually, at that level, those children would be practicing for several hours a day, which is difficult for a normal school to accommodate.


There will always be children who are "sent" to school or forced down a path they don't want, but many children, my daughter included, love playing their instruments and would do so from dawn to dusk - for them music is a very large part of life, even at such a young age, and they may see the opportunity to be with other children who understand that as a good thi

Fair enough, I was having a bolshy, controversial moment. I suppose some would think DS has a specialised chorister education. Yes, specialised in seeing how many knots he could tie in the choir masters robe and winking at the old dears who come to Evensong. Sigh, sigh, sigh!

I'd forgotten that to UK forumites, this reads as "boarding school"!

I can see the attraction...when son was young, music was the only thing he shone at. School teachers were always on his case...too many careless errors, stubbornly insisted on using his left hand to write, etc etc. If specialist music school had offered a way for him to get an education that covered his talents as well as his weaknesses, I would have thought very hard about it.

However, that's only a parent's point of view! Son himself rejected the idea of conservatory high school, because he didn't want to be the kind of musician who knew about nothing but music (his words). Fair nuff.

I would have serious reservations about a specialist music school, although it obviously seems to 'work' for some (many?) children.

Quite aside from the boarding aspect, I believe there is a risk that education is not as rounded as it could be, although I suppose that's actually the whole point of such a school! They are specialising after all.

In the last 3-4 years, because of various ensembles they do, my children have made friends with a large number of young people at 3 of the main specialist music schools, and it has been very interesting hearing about their experiences.

Most are very happy where they are, with the exception of two siblings who didn't like it and left. However, there seem to be several drawbacks too, the biggest being the perceived lack of an all-round education. This is particularly the case the older the child gets, and especially at A level stage - the children we know were all strongly discouraged from taking too many A levels, at 2 of these schools the preference is for only 2 A levels, but 3 if the student really wants to. At one of the schools, two of the A levels are supposed to be music and music tech which my children's friends find really limiting, and they say almost no-one finds the music tech course of much use. And of course, for those rejecting the conservatoire route but choosing to study music at university instead, many universities refuse to accept music tech in addition to music A level so by that point their options really have been limited.

Of course there is no compulsion to go on to study music further, we do know of several who have taken other routes, although in at least 2 of these cases they felt that once they had made it clear that they were going on to do other things, the school wasn't that interested in them any more. That may have just been their perception of course, we had this all second-hand, but they definitely felt that was the case.

I would re-iterate however, that they generally seem very happy where they are, although at least 3 have admitted that they like it mainly because of the social life and general atmosphere (supervision appears to be very lax indeed for students aged 16+) and don't feel the music bit is particularly special - I often wonder if their parents know this!

Schools like the Yehudi Menuhin school are for prodigies are they not? These are children who need something completely different to ordinary musical children. Barncottagecat, you mention Nicola Benedetti; as far as I know she decided herself that YMS was where she had to be and organised entry herself and it wasn't parental influence at all (but I think she may have been older).

Another to be famous in the future musician who went there at a young age is Callum Smart, the 13 year old finalist in the Young Musician of the Year Competition but he didn't stay. I think he is at Chethams now. Again, absolute prodigy.

The main concern for me was the age and who was driving it.

SueHM mentioned that it would be interesting to hear from someone who went to music school at a young age. Since I started reading these boards some years ago there has been a lot of discussion of music schools. There is a fairly lengthy thread with different views here.

It includes the following post from JinglyB - parent of such an individual:

"Hello
I have come to this discussion very late as I don't post on here very often, but hope that what I can add might be of some use.
I have a ten year old, who we have just removed from a specialist music school. We sent our child at eight, and we realise now with hindsight (isn't that a wonderful thing?!) that we made a very big mistake. It didn't help that we lived some distance away from the school, and were not on hand to assist on a daily basis. We watched helplessly as our bright, happy, polite, well-mannered, well-adjusted child disappeared and was replaced by a child we didn't recognise as our own, as the absence of parental input hit our child very hard. Our child's music also did not progress in the way that we would have hoped, and we felt frustrated on many levels that the school felt that this distance that had built up was acceptable.
Our child has since said that although they thoroughly enjoyed their time spent at the school, they are very much looking forward to going back to a 'normal' school and being 'normal' again. Our child is also very intelligent and has a great interest in the world around and didn't feel that the breadth of education on offer at the specialst school was right for them. We are very fortunate in that the school our child has returned to (just a regular state primary) has been VERY supportive, and we now have many options to pursue for secondary education.
Like an earlier poster, we still had to pay a hefty whack in fees every term, and we felt we were simply not getting our money's worth. No matter how talented your child, do not consider this route if you want to retain a happy, well-adjusted child who develops into a well-rounded adult. There are many many good schools out there who can offer excellent music within a well-balanced curriculum as we are now discovering, and we are really looking forward to witnessing our child's next stage of development and education, musically and otherwise."

I have tried to find an even earlier thread with a contribution from someone who was sending their very young daughter off to Chet's (I think) to study recorder and then oboe. So far I've failed to find it.

Now found it! As suspected it was JinglyB!
http://www.abrsm.org/forum/index.php?s=&am...st&p=329895

I only read a few posts of the thread but what I would say is that I don't view Wells in the same way as I view Purcell or Chethams. Wells is a proper co-educational independent school ranging from 3-18 with a specialist music course tagged on. The musicians take part in the majority of school life, board with non-musicians and I do not believe 50% of their time/curriculum is taken up with music, but I may be wrong.

If DS continues to be musical but doesn't get into Eton then I have been considering Wells but to be honest the music at Dean Close is phenomenal for a normal, small, non-selective independent boarding school. There were plenty of other kids who reached conservatoire standard but were not interested in pursuing music.

http://www.deanclose.org.uk/Senior/Co~~cur...r-Achievements/

The staff are also top notch. Previous co-leader of BBC SO, another has recently gone to be Head of Strings at Guildhall.

So if a child is talented enough they will be nurtured a good independent school where music as a high priority. Oh and this is not an advert for DC, just using it as an example.

I went to one at 9.
What do you want to know?

It gives them a fighting chance of becoming a professional. For all but the most dedicated and determined 16 is rather late. And it is not as if they are losing out on anything. It is not a narrowly-focussed education at all. The music schools simply waste less of your time than does a regular state school ... plus the discipline of studying music helps in studying other subjects.

Of course it is not child led. And why should it be. Few 8 or 10 year olds know enough about the world to know what they want to do ... for that matter few 16 year olds ... or even 20-somethings have any real idea of what a diversity of occupations is open to them in the word after schooling ... probably because a lot odf teachers have little idea either.

Parents guide their children and have a strong influence on what they eventually end up doing. That is just the way it is. How could it be otherwise?

I think it's difficult to judge.

Like Halka I wouldn't have wanted my child ot go to specialist music school. She could have made that choice for A level and hasn't. It would have been an easy decision to go with it as the specialist music school is no further than her normal school and is closer than the 6th form she plans to attend.

I don't think I would have wanted boarding school for my children or would particularly want them in a pressured environment at a young age. We know how difficult it is at GCSE level and I think that sort of pressure would be too much ongoing.

At the end of the day I expect we all want our children to be happy and do what we can to ensure that happens. I don't see how someone can judge that a specialist music school is unacceptable yetsimilar types of private education are not. I guess we all pay our money and make our choices.

Private schools are no different in their set up to state schools. Boarding is a different matter but music, private and state schools can all offer boarding so my point was not about boarding.

My post may come across as judgemental but apart from a few posts where children were not doing well in their current schools I genuinely do not understand why such a narrow course would be set from such a young age and I feel that many parents (not all) are living their own dreams or want the status.

I admit that when DS got into St Paul's Cathedral I was knocked sideways with the prestige - well, it was prestigious to me! The school was not right but I just couldn't give up the opportunity for my son, who wasn't fussed either way about going and would never have suggested being a chorister so it was definitely driven by me. Within 8 weeks we handed our notice in and he finished after being there only two terms. I then sent him to a "normal" school but by then he had discovered the singing bug and wanted to be a chorister. It took me two years to find the right school and, although it is still not perfect, he has a normal education with the music tagged on. But he is getting a great musical education. It won't be long before he sits G5 theory and he will have progressed 3 grades on one instrument and 2 grades in another by the time he has been there a year, and mainly because of the choir education he is receiving.

Anyway, I'll agree to disagree.

MNW, you say your son 'got the singing bug'. So a choir school is right for him. I 'got the music bug' and music school was right for me. I was academically very bright, but never felt I missed out educationally by going to Purcell as my interest was music. And socially, we had a diverse mix from all sorts of backgrounds, in fact, when I left and was mixing in my local area, I found it much more narrow minded in both attitude and experience.
I didn't board as there were no boarding facilities until my last year, but I would have loved to have lived there and immersed myself even more.

I really don't understand your point.

From your previous posts I understood your son to be having a great time with his singing but struggling to find enough practice time for his normal instruments.

I'm not being critical as you are totally entitled to whatever education you want for your child. I wouldn't choose either alternatives but that is down to my choice. I can't see any difference in deciding on a school with an emphasis on singing and strong education to one with music and strong education. They wouldn't be able to charge the fees they do if the education was not quality. I totally accept there may not be the range of subjects on corriculam that another school can offer but they all have limitations.

Listing the grades your son has passed in a year may be seen by some as impressive. My daughter didn't start Flute until she was 10 and passed Grade 4 with distinction at 11, just over a year after taking up the instrument. Her lessons were half hour by one of the Peris from the local music service and she was similar standard on Oboe and Recorder. I'm not bragging just pointing out where there is a will there is a way.

All schools have their pros and cons. A school which is "broad" in terms of it's curriculum is not necessarily broad socially or culturally. As someone said, you pay your money (or not) and make your choice.

My point was that a child does not need to be in a music school to make fast progress. DS school is not a choir, music school or a school with an emphasis on singing as only 17 boys out of 250 are in the choir. It is a normal school that happens to have choristers but where children can achieve well musically. I know that the sport is particularly weak at music schools and it is not well-rounded. Well-roundedness is important to me, but maybe not others as we all have differing priorities.

And (!) I wasn't boasting about my son's grades but complementing the school for nurturing his talents and bringing out the best in him because he could not achieve anymore at the moment, especially on such an awkward instrument, and I do not think his achievements are amazing compared to the talented children on this site but for him it is. Yes there are issues with the boarding, mainly because it runs seperately and not in unison with the music department but a child does not have to board.

I think it is possible to achieve highly at music in a state school, and I have had some really high flying musical pupils at my local one over the years who have then gone on to music college and beyond. If a child is musically motivated, they'll find the practise time, whichever school they go to. Some of mine shrug and say "oh, I was so busy this week, soooo much homework.."(again!) others (from the same class!) turn up week after week with amazing progress.
I went to music school and academically came out with the same 'O's and 'A's as my friends at home, but with amazing musical training and experiences behind me, so I can't see any area where I might have lost out.

Ok! I will confess that my son used to be a day boy at Clifton College Prep School. It was (probably is) a lovely, brilliant, school that was absolutely right for him at the time, with many points in common with Dean Close, I think. I don't kid myself it was a "normal" school though. He wouldn't have been there if that was the case!

No a child can make fast progress anywhere irresepective of school and sometimes inspite of teaching (though the bad habits have to be corrected at some stage),

All achievements are amazing. As everyone who gets an exam or grading in hobbies, where they exist, will have had to put in effort to meet the standards.

If we'd chosen the specialist music school my daughter wouldn't have had to board either. I know that making that choice would have made things very different. I am aware that she is much better off on one of her instruments not having studied there. We have a lot to thank them for as they pointed us in the direction of her current teacher and we couldn't have anyone better.

I think nurturing talent should be a partnership between the school, teacher and parent achieving thier potential is up to the child.

We all make choices some which with hindsight might be wrong, but for those of us still supporting our children through the school/uni stage we can't possibly know yet whether doing things differently would have improve their employment prospects or increased their long term happiness.

It is the business of parents to try to bring up their children to have as rich, as fulfilled and as happy a life as they possibly can. Unfortunately parents are also human, and prey to human folly. Thus we see, in all walks of life, parents living their unlived fantasy lives vicariously through their children. If you doubt this, go along to an under 10 football match.

I think there are far worse ambitions for parents to have on their childrens' behalf than a career in music. Try watching TL Tyson's vlog about pre-teen beauty pageants while retaining your lunch. And, as others have said, it's quite possible for a child to know very early on what they want to do (my eldest wants to be a doctor, whereas I still don't know what I want to do and I'm 53!) and in that case the parents' duty is to try to support their child.

Edward

My eldest sister gained a scholarship to a dance-oriented boarding school at the age of 9. She is possibly the most stubborn person I have ever met and the decision to apply and to go were 100% her own (she saw a similar school on a tv programme and asked her ballet teacher is she thought she could go there). She stayed 4 years, was very happy and acheived a level of skill at ballet that I could not aspire to through my one 45 minute class a week. She did not, however, excell sufficiently to continue to justify her scholarship and she left the school at age 13 when funding as withdrawn. She transferred to the local secondary modern where she was badly bullied because she did not 'fit in' and ultimately left with 1 'O' level and 1 C.S.E. In consequence, when I was offered a similar scholarship (this time to a day school) at 11 my parents refused to consider it and instead I went to the Grammar, got a good 'all round' education at went to Oxbridge.

Growing up, I did sometimes wish that my parents had let me have my chance at dance school but I realise now that they were just doing what they thought was best for me - and quite possibly it was. Every child is different and they will flourish in different environments. I shared a house at Oxford with a girl who had been 7 years at Arts Educational (prestigious stage school) - She had 4 'A' grade 'A' levels and is now a lawyer (for those who are interested - her father was a Headmaster and her mother was a stay at home mum and church organist).

As one of you wise folk said "you pays your money, and you takes your choice." We all make mistakes as parents and we just have to pray that our children will grow up wise and kind enough to forgive them.

Must say - B1 would love to go to a school that specialised in music but she is no way gifted enough - and I am in no way minted enough - so thankfully I will never have the opportunity to make that particular mistake. Ah, another blessing of poverty.

Hi
Just passing idly by on a rare day off, and intrigued to read this thread - even more so when I was referred to on it!

Yes, we sent our daughter to one of the specialist music schools aged 8, and yes, we believed at the time it to be right, so did she. Everything I said in the very first message indeed rang true, and I read it again with a wry smile and sadness. A smile because as a family we were so excited by the prospect of what was to come, and sadness because the second post I put on was also true down to the last letter.

A case of too much too young? Yes. Pushy parents? Well, there's an emotive phrase if ever there was one. Of course I say no, others will form their own opinion as is their prerogative. Without knowing someone in person and the situation in question one can't make that judgement call, that's all I'll say on that one. I prefer to think that we were misguided parents who had a talented child, and we made the wrong decision.

I am certainly not about to do specialist music schools down; clearly for the right children they are the right place, and every single family is different and knows their child best. I would wish the school that our daughter went to well, similarly as I would wish anyone attending one well. Just be very very sure that it is right for your family in your individual circumstances, and don't let pride and emotion get in the way of a rational decision.

Our daughter is now 13, and in Year 8. We chose to send her to board again, but chose a very different school from the specialist one she attended. She holds a music scholarship, which enables her to participate in a lot of musical activity but still allows her to access all the curriculum equally. She is so happy and settled, and as others have said isn't that all we ever want for our children? Sometimes as parents we get it wrong, we are only human. I would encourage any family with a musical child to consider the option we ultimately chose too.

All the best to everyone navigating their way through their children's musical talent and education - it isn't easy!

What a lovely, thoughtful, honest post, JinglyB

Tonedeafmum, my only adverse thought about your parents' actions is that they decided for you on the basis of what happened to your older sibling. You seem quite happy with that and so they were right. But as a second sibling myself, I did become rather weary of being told I couldn't doing something, or should do something, because big bro... bla bla bla. Maybe they were right - maybe I was just a bumptious little brat, but it would have been nice to have been allowed to find out the hard way sometimes, to do things differently, to have them pretend at least that they didn't know what was best on the basis of big bro's experience.

8 sounds too young to really know what you want to do. However by 13 or 14 a seriously musical child may be wanting to spend more time on music than their school wants them to. The amount of homework and number of possibly dubious subjects expected of them can limit the time available for musical activities - not just practice but time to play in orchestras and sing in choirs. So it isn't so much a specialist music school you need but a supportive school that maybe can make a few allowances or limit GCSEs to 8 or 9 subjects. When I did O levels very few people did more than 9 subjects and that still allows for breadth.

I know several people who are serious about music (i.e. have gone to top US conservatories) and all of them went to regular public schools. It is absolutely not necessary for a child to begin specialized music education at 8 in order to aspire to a professional career. What is a better alternative in my opinion is a pre-college/preparatory program alongside a regular education - I think it gets the best of both worlds. Also, it makes more sense to research and target a specific teacher than to just assume that a music school will have the best teacher for whatever instrument. I know somebody who went to a non-conservatory university to study with a cello teacher she was interested in - he could have taught at Juilliard, but was offered more money by a state university, so there he taught.

Is it always with a view to a career in music?
If a child has an interest and aptitude with a motivation that makes them willing and able to put in more real practice time than the average 'normal' schooling might allow then it may just be the most appropriate education for that child.

It might not be 'necessary', but it's nice!

It's probably right for some people, but I would have hated my son to board at such an early age. He wouldn't have wanted to go anyway. He would like to go to a conservatoire, but may not be at the right level to get in. If he doesn't he can always do a music degree or a chemistry degree, and I'm sure he'll be perfectly happy. There must be some children who are so obsessed by music that a specialist school is right for them. However, for the rest I wonder if it's a case of parents choosing for their children. My son has always chosen very academic subjects to study at school, and he may not have had the chance to do them at a music school. Anyway, he's certainly never been a prodigy, just someone who really enjoys music and has always joined in with anything that has been offered him.

If you think about the tiny number of places there are at specialist music schools compared to mainstream schools, the percentage of 8 year olds who end up there must be really small. The majority of us seem to be pretty horrified at the idea of packing an 8 year old off to boarding school, but presumably there are enough unusual children and their families for whom this feels right to justify keeping these places open. Perhaps it is something that can only really be understood by those directly involved with a very talented and focussed child. I think I have some inkling of the degree of certainty possible at that age - my mathematician son has been consumed by maths from the age of 7 - it is an abiding passion and career choice that has never wavered, so I can see how it does, occasionally, happen. Whether we would have considered a specialist education for him in his chosen subject if such a thing were possible is another question - honestly, probably not - he is enough of a geek as it is!!

I like that reply My son showed signs of becoming a maths geek when he was a pre schooler. He was obsessed by counting and adding up, and was always lining up his toys in rows of ten when he was a two year old. I was a bit worried that he had some form of aspergers. Anyway, once he discovered music it seemed to cure him of the maths obsession. He's doing maths at AS level now, but prefers Music and Chemistry.

Sounds just like me - I used to make patterns with my lego instead of building things with it!

Just curious - have any of you with math geek children EVER had the kind of pushy-parent/rounded human being stuff come your way that seems to follow parents of musical kids around?

Son Viohazard showed a strong interest (not to be confused with talent!) in music by his first birthday, but son Airman showed an equally strong interest in patterns, systems, and making things by the same age. He occasionally cried at home because he so longed to learn new things in maths and school was so sloooow - but nobody ever accused us of "forcing" him to learn maths or "hothousing" him with Lego.

He DID go to a specialist sci/tech high school, loved every single second of it, and made heaps of equally freaky friends. But I must admit that all the mothers of the robotics class students reported an early and intense interest in Lego in their offspring...you have been warned...

My eldest son is a maths geek - GCSE by the age of six and all self driven at the time. Now he is lazy and does the bare minimum! He has always been very clear on what he wants to be and I think he will but only because he has worked out that maths/physics/engineering is the non-effort route but he does not have a passion for it.

Plenty of parents thought I must have coached him to death and insisted a child with such abilities could not be rounded. Then comes the question of what rounded means. He goes to a very rounded (not socially) school with all abilities and he is forced onto the Rugby field and dragged into the art room. He will always be a geek but we have done what we can to give him the opportunities to try and develop a more rounded outlook on life. Of course, he'll still study maths but hopefully he'll be one of those rare mathematicians that has a personality!

He was accelerated at a previous school and moved up 5 year groups in Maths with the plan to go and study at a very academic senior school the following year; he would have been 8 within a group of 14 year olds. Thankfully we had a reality check and realised that although he could not be stretched without this, it was too risky for his social development. He has made no mathematical progress in 4 years now and all his peers are catching up with him. There are some academic regrets but I know we have done the right thing.

So I am against early specialisation because I feel that children can be stretched without it. My son hasn't been stretched but that has been down to practical factors and his own drive.

Do you mean other people assuming that you are a pushy parent because your kid does well in a particular area? Curiously we had quite a bit of this coming from teachers at school, rather than other parents - they were convinced we were pushing Mathboy to do loads of extra things. Over the years they have realised that that is just the way he is.

Well put




Absolutely. No 4 child is incredibly advanced and this is primarily because of her place in the family and the fact that her father is a musician and a maths/science teaher and her own interests. BUT none of the other 3 children were in the least bit interested (or very good) in science or maths! The school - bog standard comprehensive - did not look at her as a geek instead they were very pro-active (New progressive Head) they did allowed her to move up two years in Maths. This was quite easy to achieve as I was a teacher I knew that any child could opt out of RE in a comprehensive school. And so she did. This "free" lesson wasused for either extra music or she went over the the sixth form to sit in the Maths A level class. However when Miss Clever Clogs realised we were more than encouraging her to use her maths skills as a career, she managed to spectacularly fail her AS maths exams. That was a means of control. She wanted to have a music career since that tiny violin was first put in her hands aged 6. So she blew out anything else she wasnt interested in. If we did not have access to such excellent music facilities opportunities on our doorstep, we certainly would have sent her to a specalist school like Purcell or Chets.

I don't like all this business of accelerating pupils in subjects they are good at. Teachers can differentiate their teaching and retain pupils in their own year group. My son's teacher wanted him to take GCSE music early, but he was quite happy doing it at the same time as everyone else, so she started teaching him the AS syllabus at the same time as GCSE. If you make some kids "different" they often end up rebelling like the daughter in the previous post and going their own way anyway. My son has always been in the express maths set, but was kept within his own year group. He was supposed to attend "gifted and talented" sessions after school, but found them to be a waste of time. I think he's found other ways to be stretched at school, like joining in with a lot of extra curricular music, doing Duke of Edinburgh and World Challenge.