I've just started teaching a lovely girl who's about 12 years old. She's got a nice voice (on the higher side), works hard and is keen. She's open to singing anything really, but she would like to sing some 'poppy'-type songs. She doesn't necessarily mean she wants to sing 'pop' songs, but rather more things in a slightly more popular style (if that makes sense), but not musicals.

I think that as she's so willing to try unfamiliar styles, it's only fair that occasionally we do some things she wants to do. I'm having trouble finding suitable things though. I had a look at some of the Lin Marsh songbooks, but they seem a bit childish. It doesn't have to be a book necessarily, and could just be individual songs.

Any ideas?

What about Eva Cassidy? I used to (still do actually) love singing her arrangements - things like Fields of Gold, Songbird, etc are fairly famous and well known? I'm not an expert on anything at all, I just love her music.

Sorry to appear facetious, but when I saw the title of the thread, I thought "Seer Green's a bit early for Remembrance Day".

You are not alone

I was using her words, not mine...

I thought it said "poopy"
I'll go hide now....

I always ask my singing pupils what sort of pop music they like and explain clearly during the first lesson that most of the time they will sing my choices (I give them an either/or) and occasionally I'm willing to do something that they'd like to sing.

For girls of 13 and under Miley Cyrus is very popular, while others (all age groups) have requested Queen, The Beatles, Elvis, Beyonce, Alexandra Burke, Chemical Romance, Eurythmics, Ellie Goulding etc. So very wide ranging.

While some of these songs have been, from a singing teacher's points of view, pretty cr*# I've usually managed to find something in the songs that I've been able to work with to bring out aspects of technique they've learnt through "proper" songs. For most songs sheet music is available along with backing tracks which can be transposed to a suitable key. A good website for good quality backing tracks is Ameritz.co.uk and sheetmusicdirect.com for the sheet music.

My advice would be to find out from your pupil if she has a particular favourite right now and give it a go.

Fingers crossed it's not rap

I definitely want to avoid things she already knows because from what I heard in the consultation lesson, she's just trying replicate what she's heard on recordings, so it's very forced. Generally, I don't teach pop music, and I certainly avoid doing it with that age group, but that's not to say I'm against using things in popular styles occasionally.

Replication is definitely a problem and I've had to completely abandon some songs or sometimes just go with the flow and let them sing it their way - usually they end up with sore throats from this, but it at least teaches them that it's not a good way to sing - and before you start screaming at me, of course I wouldn't let them sing in a detrimental way for a full lesson, just the one song at the end and I always make sure they know why their throat is aching. I also explain to them that it's usually computer wizadry that makes their favourite pop singers sound the way they do and that it will damage their voices if they try to replicate it too much. I try to break the song into sections and work on a different way of getting the required sounds or changing the sounds completely and if it doesn't improve the song gets replaced by another (my choice ).

It's not always easy with children, but some are mouldable (if that's the right word) and will listen to teacher and improve, while others will carry on doing things their way and don't usually last very long as pupils anyway (I find these are the ones with no musical interest other than being a pop star, think X Factor is the be all and end all, you know the type). I suppose the same can be true of adults also.

Bryanfan, I think it's a shame if you assume that all pupils who want to sing pop have no other interest than being on the X Factor. There are equal challenges in singing pop music as there are in singing classical music - they just require a different set of skills. Personally, I'm not interested in singing pop music, which is just as well as I'm not very good at it!

I don't assume anything, I'm merely pointing out from my experience as a singing teacher, that now there seems to be a "type" which I'm seeing more and more of who don't actually want to learn the skills to become a good singer and, once they realise there's a modicum of work involved, give up quite quickly. These are usually (and again in my experience) people who have no musical activities such as choirs, stage schools, amateurs, playing instruments etc. and have no experience of music making and performing and the work involved, while my long-standing singing pupils, some of many years standing, all do something; they have a love of singing and performing and are prepared to put the work in. I can also say the same of piano pupils although a much smaller percentage who think that after a couple of lessons they'll be able to play fluently.

Maybe things are different in other parts of the country

Don't think so

Whilst I agree fully with Maria, and it sometimes annoys me greatly if people assume that pop-singing equals "easy", my experiences are much in line with what Brynfan has written. Many, albeit not all, students who exclusively sing pop and are not open to try new things apart from the repertoire they have set their mind on, don't last long. They tend to think that since everybody is somehow born with a voice, a few lessons will do, and they are rather shocked when they find out that their vocal problems don't magically disappear over night if they don't put the work in. Most of these people come to lessons fortnightly at the most and do no work inbetween, and then they wonder why there's no improvement. And yes, sadly this is much more common amongst pop-singers.

Having said that, this doesn't mean that I don't have some amazingly talented pop- and rocksingers who really work hard. However, the overall trend is sadly like I mentioned, and I have my own theories as to why, but that's not the subject.

Seer_Green, I very much use a "give and take" policy in my lessons, which means for every song I pick, I also let them choose one. It often means I need to transpose it etc, but I don't mind. It keeps them focussed if they do something they enjoy, and almost any popsong can be altered in a way that it is suitable even for adolescents. Only very rearely did I have to say that a song was not suitable because they were copying an adult voice too much - this problem usually disappears if you transpose or alter the song and they can't use the same vocal patterns anymore.

Did you ever try the Rockschool Vocals-series? They do 3 volumes (Grades 1-3, 4-5 and 6-8) for both female and male vocals. Many of the songs come in two keys, the accompaniment CDs are of good quality, and they also contain "pop" theory and aural (you can also get a companion guide for this). Since Rockschool is essentially a daughter of Trinity, the series is put together well, and you will find repertoire even for younger singers.

I know you normally don't do pop and rock, but I think these volumes might be worth having, if you didn't already get them in the past.

Edit: Sorry for the typos, I think I'm not fully awake yet. Hope I found most of them

Thanks for the Rockschool suggestion Dugazon, I hadn't come across it before for vocals. Just looked it up online and it looks worth investing in and is rather more structured than the LCM popular vocals, which I've avoided so far as I find the suggested repertoire lists too vague.

Hope I didn't offend. Just an observation. I can understand that your views are based on your own experiences.

No offence taken Maria I think the fact that I'm seeing more and more of these people is now getting to me. Their reactions during the first lesson when I suggest they join some group music making activity makes me feel like I'm telling them to take up morris dancing (not that morris dancing is not a worthwhile and enjoyable activity of course ) or some other activity that's not particularly fashionable.

I hit the spot in the end with a song by Alan Menken called 'Shooting Star' - it has a reasonably 'poppy' feel, but isn't a pop song, if you take my meaning...

Generally, I'm not against pop music at all, it's just I don't know much about the repertoire - it's not something I listen to much and it's certainly not the stuff I sing myself. Generally, I'd rather concentrate on what I know well.

As for these wouldbe popstars, well I'm afraid I tend to filter them out when they make an enquiry. This is part of the reason why I state clearly that I don't teach pop music - this is a roundabout way of saying I don't teach people who just want to be on the X Factor etc. who think they can sing, but actually only shout. With established pupils, I'm then happier throwing in the odd popular thing when required/requested.