does anyone else haaaaate composition, it drives me insane!

aaaaarrrggghhhh!

yep, i'm terrible at it! it can't drive me insane though because i don't think i've ever been sane lol

I adore it. Absolutely adore it.

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Jan 14 2005, 04:09 PM)

does anyone else haaaaate composition, it drives me insane! aaaaarrrggghhhh!

It's good that some people have liked it or you wd have nothing to play then!


V

I like composition, I don't know why, but I just do. It is a really nice feeling once you get going but getting going is a nightmare if you have no ideas!

it can go either way, i take comp at college and for some reason, if i'm given a theme i have to stick to (this terms is weather-inspired huh?) i have no ideas, but when i do it for myself it works out fine. argh

Nope, I love composition, it's my favourite part of the music AS course!

Yeah, I love it aswell!

I used to enjoy it, wasn't always that great at it though! I did compose a fugue for a level though which was quite fun!

I love it! But I did find at school that you had to compose to a very strict brief, and I can find little opportunity for creativity in that.
David

I barely know any theory, so I compose by improvising then writing down.

It's fun, but hard work.

QUOTE (clarinetlover @ Jan 14 2005, 04:09 PM)

does anyone else haaaaate composition, it drives me insane! aaaaarrrggghhhh!

me too....i'm composing Romantic Minature......it's taking me ages...i think forever...

so most of you like it.....oh dear!!hey anyone want to compose a clarinet piece for me?!

yeh sure...it goes "dum dum dum, dee dee dah dum, dum dah dee dee dah"

sometimes, my genius surprises even me

ah my friend oddy gives me an idea woohoo!

I want to compose, but don't know where to start.

I think the thing that puts me off is all the rules, and I'm telling myself that I can't possibly compose anything until I've worked through all the Grade 6 syllabus, and so far all I've done is bought the Anne Butterworth book. (Apparently it's not enough just to buy the theory books, you actually have to read them and work through the exercises. Seems a bit excessive but there you go.)

Nils' piano teacher has just started him on a jazz book which gives some space for improvisation within the pieces. I had a little play around with the first piece and was reasonably happy with the results, but that's a long way off composing a whole piece from scratch.

Are there any tips on getting started, or is it a case of working through all the grade 6 theory and then starting? (I'm aware that I have a belief that nothing I do will be good enough, and I think it's putting me off from having a go. I'm confident in other areas of my life, just not with my musical ability.)

Happy weekend folks!



Amber
x

I'm writing a sonatina for clarinet and piano to go with my A2 report thing. I'm guessing that's what you're doing yours for nat?!

QUOTE (Amber @ Jan 15 2005, 09:07 AM)

I think the thing that puts me off is all the rules,

Nowadays, there are no totally unbreakable rules. I have only one major rule, that I tell to people who ask me for advice on their compositions: don't write anything that sounds like conventional harmony with mistakes. Even that one is not cast iron. Most of the rules have been broken by great composers at one time or another, and in context that doesn't matter or may even be of the essence of the effect they are creating. The main thing is to recognise that you are breaking a rule and have a good reason for doing so.

Even so, I value all the practice I got during my undergraduate days in writing pastiches of Renaissance counterpoint, Haydn and Mendelssohn. Music is organised sound, and you need both your ears and your pattern creating skills to compose something of lasting value.

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and I'm telling myself that I can't possibly compose anything until I've worked through all the Grade 6 syllabus, and so far all I've done is bought the Anne Butterworth book.  (Apparently it's not enough just to buy the theory books, you actually have to read them and work through the exercises.  Seems a bit excessive but there you go.)

I don't know either the books or the syllabus; do they cover a range of harmonic and contrapuntal styles?

QUOTE

[..] Are there any tips on getting started, or is it a case of working through all the grade 6 theory and then starting?

The exercises may well be the quickest way to get you to where you want to be. I was being given exercises and a deadline for handing them in. This got me into the habit of pressing on even if I was not entirely satisfied. At that stage that was the right thing to do: five flawed pieces in different styles or genres teach you more than one perfect one. When you are writing for posterity (I wonder if I shall ever get round to that) you need to be more critical, so early exercises that go any further (which most won't) probably need substantial revision.

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QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 15 2005, 11:22 AM)

Just make a start. You found a couple of super sounding chords? A fragment of melody you like (but still needs harmony)? Just write em down. See if they develop. Don't worry if they don't - they might when you've developed your style a bit. Besides, something new may come to mind.

Amen to that... just have a go and see if you like what you come up with. I did composition at school right from age 11 to age 18 and I have never taken grade 6 theory! I did grade 5 when I was... um... 16 or 17 ish. One thing I enjoy, and might be worth thinking about to just get your writing something down and getting used to doing harmonies, is making arrangements of other people's tunes - I take stuff from the music book at church and arrange it for two or three parts rather than the piano and vocal line in the book, and I love doing that - no need to worry about chords because they are all there, but you can play around with who gets the melody/how the lines fit together/does a suspension work here? etc etc.

hehe counterpoint is fun (I am weird I know!) well I can't say I was great at it but boy I had fun writing a fugue. my teacher used to get annoyed with me because I tended to compose everything in a sort of counterpoint style, I would give everyone tunes even if it wasn't that appropriate so I think that is why she suggested a fugue! thank heavens for computers though and that we had one for a level because my piano playing would never have been up to that.

QUOTE

Get a manuscript book, pencil and eraser down WH's for £1 - - or Sibelius for £350 and get started. Beware computer stuff tho - by the time you fired the darn thing up the idea might have vaporised. Also, difficult to stuff a computer under yer pillow for those inspirations that come during sleep (and they will one night, you bet!)

Some good advice their Rhapsodin, but dont forget, not all of us are blessed with absolute pitch! I dont have perfect pitch and so I need to hear what I am composing. So,being a mere mortal and coming from the Midi software camp I have to put my two pennies worth in here. You can either buy a manuscript book, pencil and eraser from WH for £1 or get a FREE software program such as Noteworthy or Anvil to put your ideas down. Also, there is a lot of Free software now in Computer Music magazines etc I got "Cakewalk Scorewriter" on one of these free discs.
You dont need to wait for the computer to fire up if its always on and at the ready like mine is. Writing music down using pencil and paper works for some, of course it does, but if you have a keyboard connected to your computer you can hear all the sounds playing together too and hear a mock version of your piece, invaluable if you dont have perfect pitch or an orchestra to play for you. Sometimes the timbre of an instrument is enough to inspire ideas too. Also, there are all sorts of modern sounding synth sounds on General Midi that you may want to use in your compositions.
I dont know about anyone else, but I dont find sitting in front of a blank piece of paper particular inspiring and yet if I mess around on the piano/keyboard for a while I start getting ideas. I can then easily record what I've just played directly into the computer, listen to it played back at my leisure and if I like what I've done I can then try out more ideas and keep building the composition. Sometimes I add more music using the notation tools as well but its a slow process so I prefer to get those ideas, as Rhapsodin said, straight down. That is just the way I prefer to compose. If you do get an idea in bed then of course, use pen and paper too. Why not use both? You must find your own way of composing and it all depends what type of music you want to compose. If you want to compose strictly Classical Orchestral music then pen and paper and the theoretical/mathematical approach is as good.
Also, when composing on your computer, its easy to convert your ideas/recordings as MP3 files to put up on a web-site for the whole world to hear/see. If you want to score Computer Game music etc then using midi software is the way to go.
I compose music when the mood takes me. I wont even attempt to compose unless I'm inspired as its difficult enough at these times. Its easy to compose, but difficult to compose something of worth. I have sold a few of my CDs to friends and colleagues etc but I write music for myself and to my own ability. If other people enjoy it great, but it doesn't bother me when people dont like it. After all, there are a lot of musically ignorant people out there aren't there?

Have a listen to some of my piano music and synthesised stuff at my website Here

I recently did a short rock-type cue for a 30 second rally car clip. Working directly on the keyboard I was able to do this in about 2 hours.

Car race
To listen to this piece, you have to "right click" the mouse and "save target as" as it wont open directly

Feel free to comment on or criticise my music. I can take it!

Gae

P.S. I'm self taught but I did get 98% in my Grade 5 Theory of music

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 15 2005, 11:52 AM)

QUOTE Get a manuscript book, pencil and eraser down WH's for £1 - - or Sibelius for £350 and get started. Beware computer stuff tho - by the time you fired the darn thing up the idea might have vaporised. Also, difficult to stuff a computer under yer pillow for those inspirations that come during sleep (and they will one night, you bet!) Some good advice there Rhapsodin, but dont forget, not all of us are blessed with absolute pitch! I dont have perfect pitch and so I need to hear what I am composing.

you *don't* have to have perfect pitch to compose sans midi. for one thing there's the piano, and for another with practice you can compose quite nicely out of your head with relative pitch, and transpose up or down later if necessary when you check out what you have written!

QUOTE

you *don't* have to have perfect pitch to compose sans midi. for one thing there's the piano, and for another with practice you can compose quite nicely out of your head with relative pitch, and transpose up or down later if necessary when you check out what you have written!

Care to share some of your music with us then please Sarah? I'd love to hear the results of your approach!

Gae

hmmm I'd have to find something and scan it but I'll have a look.

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You also need to take into account what circumstances a person is in when talking about how to compose and what composing methods to use. Everyone has their own way of composing depending on a number of reasons. Why are you composing? Who/what are you composing for? Is it just for fun or is it a paid job? Is it for an Orchestra or a Choir? Is it for a Solo instrument etc etc? There is no one "right" way to compose only a choice of several different way. The main thing is, find the best way that suits you and GET COMPOSING!

AGREED?

Gae

P.S. Good Luck too!

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 15 2005, 12:13 PM)

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Jan 15 2005, 11:58 AM) you *don't* have to have perfect pitch to compose sans midi. But it is so much easier to compose on the Cote d'Azur or Provence...as you probably know...

muahahahahaha

and Gae, yup.

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Rhapsodin,
Thanks for sharing that with us, I'm impressed. Pen and Paper does look more authorative than a Midi I'll give you that, but I do find it more difficult to read. Copyists are amazing people aren't they? Yours is very neat compared to most scores. It does also have that hand written quality of a Bach or Beethoven manuscript and that is an advantage of Pen and Paper that I overlooked.
Has the music been performed at all and do you have any recordings I can hear please?

Gae

QUOTE

Please note there's a copyright already on this

Does that mean I cant just do a quick midi of it to hear how it sounds?

Gae

Bb clarinet is it?

darn, and there was me about to rip it off and say it was mine!

this is the second part I wrote for my flute kids for away in a manger, which I did out of my head because the only harmonised version I could find was in a different key and I was too lazy to transpose it when it was easy just to hash out another part. originally done "from my head" and then check and edited using the piano. tain't very exciting though!

this was a harmony I wrote for myself and a friend for "silent night" - which we never did use! oh well, maybe next year! and I wrote it "from my head" but with the piano part in front of me, and I think then I played it through on the piano, but it's never been checked against the actually harmonies so you can have a look (I think it's in the "usual" key) and find out how accurate I am when composing in my head!

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 15 2005, 12:40 PM)

It does also have that hand written quality of a Bach or Beethoven manuscript and that is an advantage of Pen and Paper that I overlooked.

that's true. have a friend who's extremely musical (G8 Cello and Piano with distinctions at 15 among other instruments ) and also has the most lovely manuscript hand I have ever seen. mine is a bit boring I always think, but at least it's legible... I *have* to be careful because if I didn't deliberately do it neatly then it would be AWFUL.

lol, having said that, apologies for the messiness of the silent night score above, it was a first draft...

QUOTE (Gae @ Jan 15 2005, 11:52 AM)

Some good advice their Rhapsodin, but dont forget, not all of us are blessed with absolute pitch! I dont have perfect pitch and so I need to hear what I am composing.

I don't have perfect pitch and not particularly fantastic relative pitch, but I still wrote some of my AS composition in the middle of the night! I wrote the beginning to one of my other pieces during a history lesson coz I had an idea. I had to write it on A4 paper so our teacher wouldn't notice, my music teacher was not impressed! And I thought of the ending to my A2 one when I was in the shower or brushing my teeth or something like that!

*nod* well there you go! I think as long as you know in your head what you mean, and can scribble down some sort of reminder, then that's usually enough to be able to get on with it when circumstances permit.

I just found my Silent Night flute descant and I rather liked it so thought I'd share it. Not world-beating, but I was pleased with it - simple but pretty, and I was pleased with how the it fitted when my friend played the piano part for me. And Gae, this was done with the melody in front of me and the idea in my head, quite literally, and not edited from that as far as I can remember, so this was pretty much written by the method I described before. I basically sat and wrote it as it stands - that is my first and only draft (you can probably tell that from the scruffiness!).

Enjoy! and now I am going to go and get all with all the stuff I have been getting distracted from browsing the forums...

Sarah,
Here's a midi I just did of your harmony if you or anyone wants to hear it...nice job by the way!

"Right click" and "save as target" to download

Silent Night



Gae

oooh groovy! and thanks

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lol... prodigious use of an eraser there? I can never find one, so if my first draft doesn't work, I really end up messy... I agree the cd doesn't have quite the same pathos to it...

Gae: just played my descant part along with the MIDI of the two part, hehe. quite fun. although they 3 parts weren't all supposed to go together so there's a lot of doubling... maybe I should try and work out a real third part....

ps... I am now playing my flute at the computer, killing two birds with one stone, as it were, so if anyone feels moved to compose something for me to play... it can have a reeeeeeeeeeeally quick premiere. as long as it ain't too hard....

I think that the place of notation software in composing is more or less cosmetic really.
Isn't it better to work out what you want on the piano, write it out by hand as you work with it, then use the software to produce a good looking copy?
The software I have is really mostly a word processor for music.

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it is legible. I find that scanning does pick of things sometimes that you don't notice on the page. same thing happens when I scan my sketches. sometimes they (weirdly) seem to look better on the computer screen, but I think that's maybe because you can zoom in and really see the detail, sometimes I surprise myself.

Sbhoa: yes I know what you mean about using it like a word-processor. For me it depends what I am doing, and largely because my piano playing is not that great.

Rhapsodin, that's a lovely poem of Adrienne Rich's, though maybe the second stanza would be easier than the first to set to music?

I wonder if those who say they don't like composing find it easier to set songs/poems to music than to compose in the abstract?

When I was very small, I used to make up songs, but later I took the low road, and continued with words rather than music. It still seems to me that songs are the beginning of music, as they are of poetry.

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I think sometimes it's easier to compose with words because it gives you a starting point, from which you can go off on whatever tangent you like.

Talking of singability, my teachers used to tell me off for that when I wrote for voice, the comment "Well I can sing it" never washed, sadly...

Rhaps: what you say about setting songs sounds like how it *should* be done, lol, rather than how it tends to be, if you know what I mean.

I hate to admit I've never heard of Adrienne Rich before... from what you guys say I should read some of these poems....

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