Oh dear, Ive had this issue with a particular parent a few times before. When the monthly cheque is due, this parent has persistently"forgotten" to bring in the money with the pupil so a while ago, I came to an agreement that I'd text the mum the week the payment was due as a reminder and I do this with a few mums, who promptly bring in the money when due. Every now and then (not every month) despite my text reminder, payment has been forgotten and instead of acting mortified which many parents are when they forget, the pupil informed me after I'd asked that mum had forgotten, so I asked if it can be brought in next week, though the pupil won't be here to hand in. He then assured me he would pop it in postbox saturday...did it arrive? Did it heck!!! I then text the mum a second reminder and she told me it would get to me soon as possible. They do actually live round the corner to me and so far it's been a week late. I've been through this before with them and it's getting embarrassing for myself and the pupil. I've informed her of a late payment fee in the past to which the mum arrived and said " I don't understand what the problem is, it's only a week late, we're not going anywhere and you will get paid" Why does she feel she can pay when it suits her and maybe I actually rely on this payment to help pay bills etc and if you work for a company, you wouldn't appreciate being paid a week or two late.
I strongly believe the pupil will arrive next week with the cheque(2 weeks overdue) or may arrive and make out they've forgotten again, to which I will be writing a letter to the parents saying if this happens again, I will stop the lessons. What would others do? and has anyone had the same family pay late on a regular basis? What annoys me is that they live a quick drive away, I'm writing myself notes and post-its to remind them! and I do have a feeling payment is being forgotten on purpose as they never seem embarrassed or sorry when I've spoken to them. This pupil had a previous teacher, whom he left. When I asked why he stopped with the other teacher, he said the teacher only cared about getting paid!??? Does this seem odd? Maybe because it was his job that he cared about getting paid! I do love my job, but at the end of the day I'm running a business. I have a large amount of pupils and I don't have time to chase up money that is due. I also have a waiting list and now feel that Id rather part with the pupil so I don't have this problem again. Should I just send a letter to finish teaching them or give them one written final warning. Sorry this post went on!

Yes, you get those ones. Even with contracts in place, although I have to admit I only have 2 left at the moment who are irksome, the rest are really reliable, lovely people.

My advice: Don't teach them. It sounds harsh, but some people really don't understand it any other way. If they forget the first week when the money's due, I tell them to bring it in straightaway/before the next lesson. If it doesn't happen, I ask them at the START of the next lesson if they have the money. If not, I send them home. Simple really - no money, no service. Causes a lot of grumbling, but solves the problem medium-term.

When I still had termly payments (I now only do monthly and adhoc), one person actually took the mickey and "forgot" it from the start of January until the end of February. I then swore to myself that something has to change. And so it did. They were always wobbly payers, but that was extreme. I then changed my terms, and with the new terms, I started to be really tough enforcing them, including getting as many people as possible to set up a standing order. If you let them off, they'll do it again. Had to learn it myself the hard way ...

Drop 'em. If you tot up the time and effort you spend chasing them it takes your hourly rate right down.

When I tutor I'm paid up front each week or no lesson, unless I know the reasons. For example I live in a very rural area so the kid might be expecting for mother/father to get home with money/cheque book and the parent has had to work late or something like that. One child paid me in fifty pences for the electric meter in the holiday cottage they rent out! ALWAYS the parents are so mortified they bring the money round - sometimes with wine by way of apology.

So anyway. I'd say it's not worth the trouble keeping this family on your books. Their behaviour is just rude and attitude towards you is poor. Be kind to yourself - Let them go.

My advice is to charge termly, not monthly. That's what I do. I also have a few who tend to "forget" but then by charging termly I might have to remind them only 3 times a year. I can't be bothered to remind people on a monthly basis.

Unless they are really good value in other ways (eg brilliant to teach) I would be tempted to drop them.

I did this last year with one family who gradually got sloppier and sloppier, despite half-termly billing. When the admin gets in the way of the real stuff, the job, and takes energy and resources away from the teaching, then I start to ask myself if this particular student is worth it.

As a pupil I have to say this is the right thing to do.
I was a partner in a service business for many years and our policy was that we only worked for a fee paid on time - otherwise late payment was a subsidy and no payment was just charity. Be clear and be firm.
I fret if I find I don't have the cash at the lesson and put this right as soon as I can - and I make sure I don't fail next lesson; I think this means I value my teacher and I value the lesson.
Don't bother with people that don't value you.

I only had one pupil who was bad at paying up.

She arrived without any money, so I told her that there was a cashpoint at Sainsbury's less than 10 minutes' drive away. I reassured her that she'd have the remainder of her lesson when she got back.....

And then at the end of the lesson told her that it was a shame she'd wasted a good quarter of it going to get her payment.

She didn't do that again.

(She did, however, forget or cancel on me - reimbursing each time - more than I was prepared to tolerate. So she got the boot for that)

Give them one last chance...say "I understand you're finding it hard to remember when it is the first of the month, so I think it would benefit us both if you set up a standing order monthly."

If they don't want to do that - sack them!

I've only just started charging monthly (set fee each month, averaging out 40 lessons a year) and half are paying by standing order. It's great (I just have to check each month that I've got the right number of standing orders going in - just a quick tot-up - to make sure none have cancelled!)

I admire your firmness, but how do you do this in practice?


My pupils who forget to pay for the first couple of weeks of term forfeit the right to pay in half-termly instalments.

I used to have loads of payment problems and found that a standing order solved most of the problems.

Tasha

To be honest, I don't really mind if it's two weeks late, as long as it's someone I've taught for a while so I do know I will get it soon(ish) and it's not a family that I think are taking the mick, just one that's not very well organised (I have a certain sympathy for that . . . !).

I won't have wasted any admin time on it - I don't send a reminder until at least three weeks late anyway, and then just stick a bright post-it sticker on the front of the child's folder, so it can't be missed ! I very seldom have anyone I have to remind again.

However, that's just me, and there are various other things that DO drive me nuts, so I think the point is that :

if it really annoys you and messes up your finances and is wasting your time etc. etc. etc. then get rid of the pupil or come up with a different system and explain to the parent that it's that or nothing.

I bill termly with payment due within two weeks of invoice date otherwise there is a 5% late payment surcharge. The overwhelming majority pay within that time and any non-payers are chased exactly three weeks after the invoice date with a bill that clearly shows the late payment surcharge added to the total and a note asking parents to contact me in case of financial difficulty (I AM human!) . After that I have a letter ready that all further matters relating to the unpaid account will be handled on my behalf by the Musicians Union and that lessons will be suspended until payment has been received .... but in all the years I have been teaching I have only had to use that one once.

I think you need to get rid of this parent regardless of how nice or good her child is. The parent is showing utter disrespect to you and her child by putting her in an embarrassing situation and if she really cared about her child having lessons then she would not sabotage her child's development by not paying on time. After all, how was she to know you wouldn't have terminated the contract sooner? Actually, I probably think its worth mentioning (in a letter) that this is detrimental to her DC's development and self esteem because she will now potentially be going to her third teacher. Your relationship will not be salvagable but at least she may correct her behaviour in the future for the sake of her cild.

I put my single lesson fees up by 15%, and offer a 15% discount for termly fees paid *at the time I say*.

It put it all in writing, and there is the amount of money and the due date, on a piece of paper, in their hands.

If they forget, they have to pay 15% more...
They don't forget more than once :-)

Once you offer someone what they see as a "discount" for prompt payment, they become instantly more obliging.

But if they pay late and don't include the 15% extra, it's the door for them - I'd rather stick to the rules than go all soft, as it's the path to misery. Once you give the student/parent the ability to choose when and if they pay you, you have lost all credibility as a professional - you've given control to THEM.

You can't get on an aircraft by promising to pay next week, and you can't fill a car with petrol and promise to pop in next week with the money.

This parent has pushed her luck, and so far you have accepted late payments every time, thus giving her the message that it is OK to do this. She needs a very clear statement that you will no longer accept this behaviour. Contact her now and say that you would like payment within 24 hours or you will be stopping lessons. Tell her what you have told us - you have a waiting list of pupils, no-one else messes you around in this way, and you haven't the time or energy to keep chasing her for payment. Everyone else manages to send the money on time, and she must do the same, or find another mug teacher to manipulate. If you give her an ultimatum, stick to it rigidly and be prepared to follow through.

Most of my students (in the days when I had a bigger practice) were on a 'pay as you play' basis (weekly or fortnightly as appropriate). One or two preferred to pay for a course of six lessons. I found this system easy to manage and it generally worked very well. I'll carry on with this system when I get get fully established as a teacher again in the near future.

I had one young lady who had lessons on a Saturday morning. Mum had often gone into town leaving the lesson money with her daughter. One week I went there, she had the lesson, and then said "Mum has forgotten to leave your money. We'll pay next week." No "sorry" or "is it ok?" or anything. I said I would accept it this time as it was the first time in about six months of having lessons.

She did pay me two lots of fees the following week, but then it happened again but the next time she "forgot" to leave two weeks fees, leaving only one instead. I sent a letter to mum and said she needed to ensure fees were left for me, especially as I was told after the lesson had been given that there was no money left to pay me.

I started to ask from then on before the lesson began if any money had been left. If it was a "no" I said I'd see them next week. This is the advantage I have of going to the student's house..I can walk away. The disadvantage of course is that I've wasted a journey. On the rare occasions that I've turned up at a house and the student/parent has forgotten to cancel usually ends up with me being paid in full for the wasted time. Even this is monitored though as I don't want people thinking it's ok to mess me about if they pay me anyway.

I eventually caught up with mum and she paid all outstanding fees. I gave her the choice of having lessons on a fortnightly basis if she preferred (not wanting to cause any embarrassment around the possibility of difficult financial circumstances). Mum said daughter wanted to continue with weekly lessons though.

Daughter was doing really well, so I wanted to hang on to her despite this problem. I eventually got a letter from her informing me that she had decided to stop due to pressure of school exams.

Agree with what others have said. Any constant lateness in payment would result in me not teaching them any more. How many people could go into a hairdresser (for example) have their hair done and then say "I'll pay you next time." ??

I have found that you do have to be firm with payments being on time otherwise it is easy to get into arrears.

A problem I had with one parent was that she thought of instrumental teaching as not being a proper job as I didn't sit in an office, I was just working from home so in her opinion, it didn't really count therefore didn't matter if I was paid on time or not. I got very business-like with her, contract, standing order form and that certainly helped.

Good luck

Tasha

I think that if this is your main line of business, you may need to outline a few rules before they start lessons. I myself offer a free induction first, then for the next 4 weeks, they pay me weekly at a higher rate. I then offer 2 tariffs - 1. The same higher price to continue 'pay as you go' - arrive when they want etc.... or 2. A lower monthly tariff - about ?2/ ?3 cheaper - but lessons are booked one month in advance, and me needing SEVEN days notice of any cancellation, or 2 days notice to reschedule, otherwise the lesson is still paid for in full. I also ask for a small bond if tariff 2 applies - around the cost of a month's tuition. All parents are fine with that, and it covers any period should they wish to terminate the lessons.

When I trained to do my piano tuning course, I had to pay "up front" a 14 week lot of fees - about ?700 a throw. However, if I missed a lesson/week/day.... whatever, tough! - I still had to pay for it regardless. All small businesses like this can suffer the 'whim' of someone just cancelling a lesson - and now I offer a choice of tariffs, and need a bond after 4 weeks settling in, all parents know the score - and very rarely does anyone mess me around. If weeks did go by without payment.... simple, deduct it from their bond. You should never be out of pocket - unless you receive GOOD notice of any cancellation, which is the decent thing to do - then customers respect you more, and treat you like a professional.

Hope that helps.....

Behaving as if they don't think instrumental teaching is a proper job is no excuse for not paying for lessons.

We can all make mistakes now and again but there is no need to be disrespectful. Why employ a teacher in the first place if there is no respect for the profession?

A lot of people employ cleaners, but I don't think they regard THAT as a profession, just a job.

And that, of course, is precisely why they see musicians as "doing a job" paid by the hour, rather than "having a career"

Ha! The number of times I used to turn up ready to whip the hoover round some biddy's house to find a note stuck to the kettle (because the biddy assumes cleaners spend all their time drinking tea) saying "No cash today - Mr Biddy will settle soonest". One biddy actually asked once if I wouldn't rather be paid in high quality second hand clothes!!
Not entirely sure why a music teacher should expect more respect than a cleaner though but then I was brought up to respect the person and not the profession. People who don't pay for a service they request (be it a music lesson or a clean toilet) respect no one - not even themselves.

Ooh - get me on my (love that emoticon!)

I charge termly but am still owed a bit (?100) from a student who is repeatedly late in paying.

I think the best policy is to repeat to that person that payment needs to be made promptly now. Stress that you have bills to pay like anyone else.

You could say that you will refuse to teach them if payment isn't bought in by a certain date or something? In the end, these people annoy me because with some of them, it isn't that they're in trouble financially, but rather that they're taking the mick. I sympathise!

I think a second invoice, showing a late payment surcharge is best.

These ideas are absolutely the right ones.

But at the end of the day, a parent shelling out grudgingly (and that's probably the case) for lessons isn't interested in any of this.

Rather than impose a surcharge after the event, it's surely better to proffer a discount for prompt payment?

Much easier to police, much easier to implement, much easier to manage.

And much more quickly brought to a conclusion - which is actually what matters....

Offering a discount is an extremely expensive way of collecting money. If you offer a 2% discount for paying a month earlier than they would normally think what that would be over a year. If you put that money in the bank for a year you would be lucky to get 2 %, let alone a month.

So always take a prompt payment discount, but never give one. If you put your fees up in order to offer a discount back to what you want to charge you run the risk of looking expensive and losing business.

(I'll take my accountant's hat back off)

If you teach classical guitar, as I do, one already looks expensive - there are young lads teaching "Electric Guitar and all other styles including Classical" for 10.00GBP an hour. "No need to read music"

They have a day job.
The teaching is beer money.
And Joe Public has no idea that Classical Guitar is a completely different technique from Electric at so many levels...


Andante, you've explained why the way I operate could lose me business.
But you've not asked me whether my teaching calendar is empty or full :-)

I didn't say it WOULD lose you business.

I was talking generally about credit control. I'm an accountant, although I do play Classical Guitar and you are quite right about no-one knowing what it is. I went to a concert by our local music service and was squirming in my seat as the classical guitarists played with their thumbs sticking out round the neck....even the teacher! Easy to see he was an "all sorts" teacher.

Sorry - I was being mischievous!


Quite so - and the classical neck is thicker, so there are real issues on spreading the fingers when the hand is clenched around it. I carry a pair of scissors in my teaching case for trimming strings after fitting, and I have threatened to snip off a thumb or two in the past!


Your comment about unprofessionalism, heads us back nicely towards the issues of perception... Are we treated as, for example, a dentist, where a broken appointment is charged for, or are we treated as a bus - "it'll be there whether I get on or not".

I guess in some people's eyes we've become a commodity that they can take or leave at a whim...

"Hmm - money's a bit tight - I'll skip the lesson and save a bit"... <groan>

Good advice. I'd go further and say that as you too have bills to pay and as this is your livelihood, unless you receive the payment that's overdue within 24 hours, and, given the history, unless she also accepts having to pay a month in advance from now on as well (include the next invoice with the letter), you'll be giving her place to another pupil immediately. And yes, you have to follow through. If payment doesn't come, don't be in touch again; just give the place away and don't feel guilty if the child arrives at your door next week only to see somebody else there - the fault is the mother's and not yours. I might even go as far as to say that to the child...no child should be allowed to feel that this is acceptable or he/she will grow up doing the same.

It depends - my vet always used to offer a discount for paying on the day. Then they changed it, so you had to pay on the day or a surcharge was imposed. The thing is, when they made this change, they also changed their prices - so paying on the day cost the same actual amount!
They found that people were happy to pay 'full price next week' compared to a 'discount price now'...but would rather pay 'full price now' than 'surcharged next week' - [i]despite the numbers being the same[i]!

That's really interesting! I suppose the moral of the story is that people just like to hold onto money for as long as possible, like the mum in this thread... In that case, where it's a regular payment that's required, and not a one-off, though, I think I'd still just say "Pay me when I want it or take your custom elsewhere." I get the occasional pupil asking for extra time or asking to split a bill into two instalments, and that's fine, because I charge by the school term and sometimes it's a big bill, but to consistently turn up without a small regular amount without asking me first, just assuming I can wait - that would be different.

I just had a cheque BOUNCE...

How infuriating

Or was it from you to somebody else?

Have a look at http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/ltd-co...bad_cheques.php

You can threaten court action, and, looking at this article, you will almost certainly win.

Gah. It was from somebody else - someone who'd been on a course of mine, came to watch me teach and 'bought' some of my books...

How rude! hope you have contact details etc.

But no-one bounces a cheque on purpose do they? The financial penalties for them are so high when this happens - surely they have made a mistake, that's all?

Yes, it's annoying for you but hopefully you will get the money.

I think I will...I'll let you know!!

I only accept direct debits for all my pupils - after such problems, Really easy as no one can forget!

But they can still bounce....

And still cost! I've had direct debits bounce (from me to others) and I actually think it's more likely for this to happen than with a cheque. It's completely out of sight and out of mind.

In theory, you can charge statutory interest on late payments, but when I looked into this, it's a matter of pence so not worth it really. I do know some teachers who now have a late payment fee.

I can't understand, and will never understand, why people find it such a difficult concept - the money is due on or before the date given - simple. It's not due the next week, or the week after, or the week after that when you've had time to cremate the dead gerbil or whatever the latest excuse is. I'm sure people wouldn't take their shopping and expect to pay for it in three weeks. If you file your tax return late, there are penalties - the date when it's due is clearly given. The date when lesson fees are due is clearly given on the invoices I send out, yet always, there's the same one or two who just don't bother. The most organised simply pay when they get the invoice then it's done and out of the way, and there's no need to have to remember. It's not rocket science! If people had any sense, they'd right the cheque and give it to me asap, dated for the day it's due, then everyone's happy - they've got it out of the way, and I've got it can can cash it as soon after it's date as possible. Payment by BACS is also easy as it can be set up well in advance to be paid on the day it's due.

The concept is "Don't pay on time if you can pay late"

What part of that concept don't you, and won't you EVER understand?
<grin>

Sorry - not being nasty, just being as eloquent back to you on behalf of the **** that doesn't pay on time...

Hey - I've found more things that fit **** than I've ever found before!!!

I have this concept myself when it comes to gas bills. Especially when I haven't quite got the money to cover it, but will have soon. But I don't feel particularly guilty about this.

An individual earning a living from providing a personal service to other individuals is different, though, and I wouldn't dream of paying my child's music teacher late. (She will have gas bills to pay too, after all, and there's a limit to how long we can all stall the gas company... )

Yes, *you* wouldn't dream of paying your child's music teacher late, but others don't follow your reasoning, or indeed, have any reasoning at all, apart from "keeping hold of money"
<grin>

When you say "An individual earning a living from providing a personal service to other individuals is different", that really isn't a principle, it's just a belief that *you* have, and that fee-paying students don't....

We're not here to provide a service, we're here to earn a living, and we're not here to expect others to afford us charity. We don't need charity, we need respect...

:-)

Goodness - I feel better for getting that off my chest!

Then the answer is demand what you expect and take no dithering! (Even charities can be quite demanding at times...) The gas company certainly demands. No payment, no service. Respect comes from expecting respect. I respect my final demand gas bill. If we don't want to be issuing final demands for payment for music lessons, then we make that clear and we stick to our guns when we say 'no payment, no lesson'.

EDIT - i don't really take this approach myself.... I usually give people the benefit of the doubt - when problems arise, which is extremely rare. But if a relatively new pupil messes around from the word go, then I don't accept it.