After several heated discussions, I have accepted that my other half thinks we don't have the space for a grand piano (without turning our whole flat into Piano Central - not a problem as far as I'm concerned lol!)

However, the other night, after good food and wine, he reopened the topic and is reconsidering whether it might be feasible ( )

Now, even if I can fully persuade him, and be sure that it won't be too much of an imposition on him, I'm still not financially ready, but my first question is what to actually go for. I'm pretty sure that I will eventually get a grand piano (even if it's in the next house), so it'd be good to have made my mind up.

I know this is a really personal thing, and will of course go and play many. But what are people's views on:

make/model (I've heard one piano tuner say some Yamaha C1s are nicer than some Steinways, for example??!)
size - I'd want at least 6 foot, but how big a difference is there between 6, 7, 8 foot long - really that noticeable?
value for money - in principle, ie spend less but getter a better deal, even if the ultimate quality isn't quite so high, or cough up but get better quality
age - for example, there are some pretty good deals on turn of the century Bechsteins, some reconditioned, some not - but would age make them no longer worth it?

Have read some previous posts, just interested in people's thoughts...

the other thing to bear in mind, is that once I finally get a grand, it will be my baby, so I'm having a hard time imagining letting some of my pupils near it lol! Think the upright'll have to go, but may keep the digital and put the real key-bashers on that until they learn decent technique...

My teacher has got a lovely Kawai grand, it has a beautiful tone - not too bright and not too mellow. It convinced me to go out and get a Kawai too (although just an upright )
PSL

Not a pianist worthy of the name here, but the Fazioli in Peregrine Pianos in London is a lovely, lovely instrument...

This is what I have. Love it.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-ins.../s4/?mode=model

This is an American site, but I have had my S Series yam since 1993. I believe it was one of the first made - this is the closest site I could find. I paid ?20K for it in 1993. Lucky bequest.

Having just spent 3-4 months travelling up and down the country looking at Grands around 6ft, In that time, I have probably tried out around 100 pianos and would offer the following suggestions.

Be prepared for your ideas of what you want (make) to be turned upside down. I set off looking for (probably) a Bechstein and indeed I ended up buying one, but many of the Bechsteins I played were very ordinary (disappointing). I tried many "big name" pianos (including Steinways) which were similarly poor or disappointing. Conversely, some of the cheaper new pianos were surprisingly good - I was very impressed with all the Wendl and Lung the two Kawai pianos I played. One shop had a Kemble which outshone both the Bechstein and Steinway either side of it, and was only just over half the price.

I also found some beautiful Steinways (but for two pianos of similar quality, one of which is a Steinway and the other isn't, you will pay at least ?10k more for the Steinway).

Although you might be lucky and find a great piano on spec anywhere, if you really decide you want a particular marque I would suggest going to a (work)shop that loves and specialises in that marque - for example the recon Bluthner's at the Bluthner Piano Centre in London were all excellent and 1000% better than any Bluthner I found anywhere else; similarly, Geoff Shackell for Steinways.

Many of the 'reconditioned' pianos I played were poorly regulated and some not even properly in tune, so very difficult to compare. For some reason, Steinways seemed significantly better in this respect; this might be because the extra pricetag paid for extra effort and attention, but I rather think it was the professionalism of those two workshops.

Start with shops with a large range - e.g Besbrodes in Leeds. I must have spent a total of two days trying numerous pianos there, and very nearly bought from them. Although many of their pianos were excellent, only one had the touch and tone I was really looking for but at 7' 6" was (I thought) too big and powerful for our lounge. Having the 6ft now in place, I'm not so sure about that now - we could easily have gone to a 6' 6" or perhaps even 7ft.

Most shops will lend you size templates to lay on the floor, but these do not give you much idea of the sheer bulk and presence of the piano in the room. Much better to make a mock-up (we used the dining room table, with hardwood panels clamped to it, to give the right width and lengths).

All other things being equal, pianos over 6ft seem better value for money (as they are evidently more difficult to sell). The tone also improves markedly with each extra 6" - but so does the power! A 6ft is fine in a biggish lounge, especially with lots of soft furnishings around, but a 9ft grand in a room with minimalist furnishings probably make your ears bleed!

As regards turn of the century pianos, there are many available. They range from complete ruthless rebuilds (i.e. a complete new piano inside an old box (renovate the box and frame and throw away the rest) to piece by piece rebuilds with authentic materials and nothing original is discarded which can be re-used. Both are about the same price but the former will last you like a new piano (and probably comes with a similar guarantee), while the latter will always need lots of continuing TLC to keep it playing. Unreconditioned models are obviously much cheaper, but again will require much TLC to keep in good order.

Finally, it was a very interesting, rewarding and, above all an educating experience going round and trying out so many great pianos (and even the not-so-great ones). Enjoy!

A little but I just wanted to tell you all about my 16 year-old pupil who recently bought an 1885 Erard (Rosewood) at an online auction. He has developed such a passion for playing that he wanted to own a grand piano and when this one came up, he just went for it. I should say though that he did his research first!
He's paying a lot of money to have it transported to our local restorer and doesn't know where he's going to keep it once it's restored, but I'm so impressed over by his passion and initiative. Not sure his mother feels the same, though!

I prefer the Schimmell downstairs in all honesty.

My favourite piano so far is that Steinway in the Arts club - they'd just had it serviced and tuned before our playday and it was gorgeous!

Thanks for the replies! I'm so excited it's almost embarrassing. But not quite

What a lovely journey I'm embarking on! I do think I'll have to play loads, as it takes me a while to get a proper feel for a new instrument. I'll have to write a list of things to notice too, or I'll just enjoy myself and forget to analyse!

Right, will start with places in London:

Peregrine's Pianos
Chappell of Bond St
Markson Pianos
Piano Warehouse

Anywhere else I should try out?

Think I will play some Steinways even if they're out of my price bracket, just to inform my choice. Also, I'm tilting towards going for a new piano, given the comments about restoration, and feeling nervous about the unknown - think I'd pretty easily miss something major.

hehe :-)

I think the general concensus is that once you find something you really like, you get a decent piano technician along to go over it with a fine-toothed comb. For such an investment, the technician's fee is well worth it.

Wow - it sounds like you had a lot of fun PianissiMole. I had similar fun wandering all over London for a number of weekends when looking for my digital. On the other hand, I bought my upright almost on a whim. I decided to buy one on a Friday evening, the next day I spent several hours playing all the pianos in a big showroom, and my favourite was delivered a couple of days later. I've been supremely happy with my choice.

With both purchases I found that cost was not much of a guide to my enjoyment of the touch and tone.

I'm renting a piano here in Hungary. This was the only piano that was available to rent, so I didn't have a choice. I didn't much like the touch or the tone - and I thought that it was ugly. However, the digital that the school was renting to me was awful, so I rented the piano despite my concerns. A good piano tuner came and worked on it for a while, and I've now found that I like the touch and tone. This is all a long way of agreeing with PianissiMole that the regulation and tuning in the shop will make a big difference.

Of the grands that I've played, I enjoyed the Fazioli the most. I had unrestricted access to it for a week a few years ago. I loved the way that I was able to emote on it. It sounded wonderful, even when I played the wrong notes. It made me want to practice. I achieved a lot that week, but unfortunately didn't want to play my own piano for about a month afterwards!

My next favourite was my piano teacher's Steinway. It was a best of year Steinway with a very heavy touch. My teacher and her family decamped to the country during each school holiday, and I piano and cat sat for them. It was a real pain to move across London, feed the cat, water the garden etc; but I loved that piano. I would take time off work so that I could spend all day on the piano. It had a beautiful heavy touch, but I understand that can be altered on a Steinway.

I had access to a Steinway in a London church, but found that I really didn't like it. It was fairly old, and I found that I didn't like the depth of the keys - they just didn't go down very far.

There are many pianos here in the Institute, and some are truly awful. They're old and need a lot of work, but the Institute can't afford to keep them in good nic. The one that I like the best is a lovely Yamaha in the concert hall. Interestingly it isn't the one that they use for concerts, so clearly someone else doesn't consider it to be the best.

My local church in London had a Kawai, which I really enjoyed. It wasn't nearly as nice as the Fazioli or Steinway, but I spent many happy hours on it. That said, my piano teacher (with the best of year Steinway) hated it.

In summary, I don't think that you can decide in advance, you just have to play them and see which you like most.


Oops sorry - long post. Have fun.

Try the Steingraebers at Hurstwoodfarmpianos

I'd strongly suggest giving Bluthner in London (Mayfair) a try.

I just sold my yamaha U1 and my beloved nord stage piano to fund the purchase of a yamaha c1 from coach house pianos in Swansea. Hoping to get delivery of that over Easter! Ideal piano would be a Steinway but I would need to sell my flat to buy one!

My pianotuner friend has a Hamburg Steinway, it is simply divine and nothing we have seen so far has matched it. Divine tone. Thoroughly recommended.

Bosendorfer Imperial. I played one a few times at Sarm East Studios. What a piece of kit.

I've always had a real soft spot for Bechstein, but most people seem to prefer Steinway.

Give the Bluthners a go, they can be amazing.

Oooh I'm so jealous!

The problem with Bechsteins is that they seem to have gone through a few phases where they made downright awful pianos. I've not played on many good ones!

Alpha Male Jazz Cat has a Yamaha C5 and a Yamaha S6. He is totally besotted with the S6 (especially when I am draped across it, naturally!)

I find the C5 easier to play as I am a weak, feeble-pawed kinda Bag, but the sound on the S6 is very special indeed. I can only begin to imagine what it would sound like in a bigger room....She sounds particularly gorgeous at night.

Happy shopping!

Key-Bag x

I recommend Yamaha -I have a boudoir grand and when I bought it 23 years ago it was a toss-up between a Kawai and Yamaha and Yamaha won. My piano tuner who has been tuning it since I bought it never fails to mention what wonderful condition it is in.

This is really interesting - a listening zone where you can compare the sounds of Boesendorfer, Steinway and Steingraeber

http://www.hurstwoodfarmpianos.co.uk/listeningzone.php

.She sounds particularly gorgeous at night.


[/quote]

I think this all the time about pianos! Weird. It might be the wine sometimes, which obviously makes me a better pianist.... but I genuinely feel that the sound is better at night regardless. I wonder if there is actually a scientific reason for this? Closed blinds? Amount of moisture in the air? Atmospheric pressure? Who knows?!

Sorry to divert the subject at hand...