DS2 and I are coming to blows at the moment. Should I just not be in the room when he plays? He tends to get given two pages of exercises each week. This is all good sightreading practice, but it is very difficult to listen to him play through everything inaccurately and then say he's finished. I have suggested doing some easy open string pieces to start with to get the bow in the right place and then work through the new pieces, then playing something he knows he plays well to finish with. But should I make corrections to the new stuff? EG "try and make the minims longer than the crotchets - can you clap this one first before you play it again?" or "Lovely, but mind that your fingers are still in the right place" or (heaven help me here) reminding him to bow nearer the bridge.

I never expected to fight with no 2 son... but he is intrinsically lazy and won't push himself. I have tried to do all this in a really positive way but this week I've just got attitude back.

Just re-read this and I sound terrible! I am not a tiger mother, honest! When I say he won't push himself, I mean that although he knows the difference between a crotchet and a minim, and what a scale should sound like, he will often just play things without really thinking instead of concentrating. We are only talking about 20 minutes a day maximum here...

How old is he and how long has he been playing?

Don't worry you're not the only one - DS and I regularly come to blows at practise time!

I don't sit in with him anymore (due to DS2 wanting attention - he's 3!) so DS2 and I play in his bedroom and DS1 practises in his own room and comes in and out when he feels like it. I tend to start by telling him what I think, suggesting what he should play etc. Then if he gets stroppy with me I walk away and say that if he wants my help then he knows where I am. Inevitably he comes asking me for my opinion. I think if he didn't then I'd try to let him just practise as he sees fit, for an agreed amount of time, and then let the teacher sort it out in the lesson. Although DH sometimes has more success than I do, so maybe it's a Mum/Son thing!

If DS is having a bad practise day, we sometimes talk about it over dinner where it's not quite so intense. That can work too as it makes him think about it. This sometimes results in him having another go (after dinner) at what was causing the problems. If not then I just remind him of what we discussed at the start of the next practise. I try not to get hung up on 'the details' and let him just play the piece as he sees fit. Once he can get the notes right, then he works on the rhythm, then dynamics, etc. Of course DS loves to play everything as fast as he can, so speed/rhythm are not top of his list of things to get right!! His teacher is always telling him to practise SLOWLY (especially semiquaver sections). But I don't think that it a word DS understands!

This time of year is always difficult. As the school year draws to its close, many children feel really tired and can't summon the energy for mundane tasks like musical exercises. It sounds as if your son is feeling a bit like that at the moment - we all have times when we lose our appetite for things we normally enjoy. Why not give your son a free week over half-term when you don't get involved with his practice?

That's a good idea

When DS is feeling 'run down' I don't remind him to practise and after a few days he comes back to it himself saying that he's missing it!

I think your situation sounds fairly normal. If you were a Tiger Mother than you wouldn't be thinking about your relationship with your child. The only focus would be practice.

I'm no musical expert but I think I'd break the exercises down in to smaller chunks so he isn't doing all of them every day. I'd get him to focus on one or two and play them really well before adding a third and fourth. If he has some pieces that he enjoys playing then it may be good to get him to play those as a reward for doing well on his exercises.

We all get into those practice disagreements at one time or another and part of is down to maturity. As they get older things calm down more.

You make it sound like a bad thing.

Please - let's not go there. Sick to death of the 'tiger mother' debate.

I'd say - if supervising practice is stressing you both out then take a backseat for a while - and tell his teacher that you are doing so - and why. Son's piano teacher recently asked me how much influence I had over how and how much he practised. This was because she wanted to know how much he was able to do 'by himself' and also how self motivated he was. Since he's not yet 7 I was rather surprised (his elder sister's teachers have never asked.)

I'm sure I have something to say on this as I've been thinking about my role in my son/daughters' practise too. I will come back to this thread when I have not been drinking wine ....

(it's our wedding anniversary tomorrow but we're celebrating today so I can go to band tomorrow evening )

Advise me, guys. I am currently 'supervising' my 13 year old niece. She's learning piano (somewhere around Grade 1 standard, I'd say, but she's not that keen on taking exams anyway.) The trouble is, she has come away for the week with very little work set and is adamant that her teacher wouldn't want her to practice anything other than her 2 short pieces (one very easy and new, the other more challenging but she's been learning it since April). I told her that everyone in my house does at least 30 minutes music practice (self included) and she'll end up very bored just working on what she's got. Needless to say, over the years we have accumulated a lovely variety of quite simple pieces she could work on - guests of all ages like to browse through our 'music bin' and have a go at things (I've even been known to have a tinkle myself ).

Music practice this morning was grim. 10 minutes was all she could manage and my attempts to get her to try new things resulted in my being told that I knew nothing about how she was being taught and trying to get her to practice her own pieces differently went down even worse! Apparently she KNOWS that she's doing the wrong rhythm and will play it correctly for her teacher but she likes it better her way![insert tonedeaf strangling niece emoticon here]

OK - so I'm inclined just to leave her to it - since she only stays with me for about 6 or 7 weeks of the year at most but I'm the one who persuaded her mum to let her have lessons in the first place and I feel a bit responsible. Also - everyone tells me how much my son (nearly 7) is like his cousin [insert tonedeaf strangling 'everyone' emoticon here] and I really don't want him getting any ideas.

Hey TDM,

How about getting one of your own DCs to play a little something to whet her interest and that she can have a go at afterwards. Or could you get a copy of her pieces so that she can practise what she's happy playing?

As for advising her on her actual playing, I think that I'd leave well alone. It sounds like it's not welcome and is not helping. I know only too well what ViolaSon gets like when he's in 'that mood'. We still have the teenage years to come, but we already hear the "You don't know what the teacher said" comments! Don't feel bad about it - you tried and it could just become a big daily battle if you continue. I think I'd keep to a schedule with your own DCs (so your DS doesn't think he can escape!) and encourage your niece to practise daily, but let her do it her way.

Good Luck!

I was just thinking along similar - but different - lines. What is her relationship like with B1? Does B1 have any violin pieces with easy piano parts? Perhaps if B1 wanted her to learn it so that they could play it together then your niece might be willing to give that a shot (after all, you of course would have had nothing to do with it...). Alternatively, could she work on some duets with either yourself or one of your children?

I have to say that it sounds like she maybe doesn't really want to learn the piano. I would expect a 13 year old to be more motivated, and to make quicker progress as a result.

I have decided to get my children cryogenically frozen at 12 because music practice (and everything else) with a teenager is way too hard!

I asked niece this morning if she wanted me around while she was practising and she said 'no' so I went off and 'played' the flute instead, not even commenting when the piano noise stopped after only about 10 minutes.

Half an hour later, when I'm helping Son with his practice (my big important job of drawing smiley faces on his scales) I suddenly find myself caught up in some big hormonal strop because, apparently, I only care about precious little B1 and B2 and their music and don't what it's like to have a mother who doesn't care and won't help and everyone always goes 'ooh how perfect B1' is and .... I rather lost track after that.

I have decided that this isn't really about music practice at all and anything I did was going to be wrong in this instance. Suggest that all parents (and carers) learn from my mistakes and never treat practising problems in isolation.

Don't act too rashly

My 14 year old is much more co-operative than my 11 year old. (My 11 year-old is a specialist of "Yes, I know the rhythm is wrong but I like my way better" , although as I posted earlier somewhere, she did one day ask me to help saying that she had noticed that our teacher likes my rhythms better than hers ).

Beware also that there are days when it is very hard to get my 11 year-old started but once she has started it is even harder to get her to stop


I think you're perfectly right but you can console yourself with the idea that your niece is going home shortly and you don't have to live with her every day.

I recognise so much of what is being described here.....

Son No.1 is and always has been more biddable at music practice time (though he has just turned 12 and is therefore now practising for teenagerhood, so we are getting rather more huffs and strops than previously...).

I was therefore unprepared for Son No.2, who is h-a-a-a-a-rd work! It can be hard to get him to start; hard to get him to concentrate; hard to get him to do what his teachers have requested. It is rather rare (alas) that it is hard to get him to stop (unless, of course, it means staying up beyond his bedtime ).

The only things I have found to work at all consistently are:

- ensuring I find lots of positive things to comment on, as well as pointing out areas to work on. (I think this is something the kids are all now trained to expect as of right, by schools....)

- ensuring practice is "little but often" - so something done every day, even if not for extended periods.

- allowing him a bit of "messing around" time in which he gets to do the stuff he likes (even if it isn't on his practice list).

- acute sensitivity to those little clues (sighs, facial expressions etc) which mean that the session is heading for the rocks! It's generally best at those times to bail out and try something different.

I have tried leaving him to practise unsupervised, but it doesn't usually work (his definition of "practice" can tend to be a quick stumble through one or two pieces, then an equally quick cry of "I've done my practice" tossed back over his shoulder as he heads off towards the computer...).

I have this too! My eldest is much more argumentative than the youngest who tends to get on with things unless she hits a brick wall. At that point she needs lots of encouragement and even if there is a disagreement she will at least come back and try my idea or think of somehting of her own.

I think the niece situation has little to do with music practice. A close family relative was aways with us when they were younger. It didn't always work for any of us. They wans't really "like" my girls in the intrinsic upbringing had different vslues. It turned out later they had dyslexia and I think that the inability to keep up at school also effected the situation.

Particularly as they and eldest were in same school in the same year and even the same form throughout High school.

It does get better post 18 and I'm the "other Mum" .

I think notmusimum has a point about niece being 'not mine.' I've always looked after her a lot and, as an only child with an only parent, she puts a lot more importance on the relationship with my children (also her ONLY cousins) than might be usual. In spite of mine, and my parents', involvement her upbringing has been quite different from my children's.

I persuaded her Mum to arrange piano lessons for her last year, after she spent the summer with us and seemed completely incapable of leaving our piano alone. She taught herself to read music (more or less) and how to play (by a combination of a good ear and an excellent memory) a variety of easy tunes. I really thought that she would fly once someone got her a teacher. To get to the standard she has in 9 months is pretty good - but, yes, I had expected her to push ahead even further than she has. She is one of those girls who is excellent at practically everything - much more academic and a thousand times more athletic than my children - and, I suspect, she's never really had to work at anything that hasn't come naturally before. Her mum doesn't really like her 'wasting time' on things she's not brilliant at and isn't very supportive of the piano.

We have had some fun this afternoon though with B1 on the flute and B2 and cousin on the piano together - niece won't stay in the room if B1 plays the violin but I think it works out well that they're all more or less equal if B1 sticks to flute. They are working their way through their own peculiar interpretation of a mission chous book! Niece has informed me that this counts as all their practice for tomorrow and the 3 of them are having a day off.

Oh, really .....

Sounds a lot like my younger daughter (who has had the same upbringing as the eldest and who is completely different so I think personality does play a bit role ). It is extremely frustrating as she could do so much better at everything if she would just do some "logical" and regular work.

Noo! It's got to be upbringing rather than personality!!
Everyone in the family tells me she's just like me!

And I'm lovely.

Niece had a go on the flute today and my son taught her the 1st lines of the Entertainer on piano (by ear and error) - so we are extending her musical experience even if she's not getting a lot of actual practice done. I talked to her mum on the 'phone and she admitted she would rather her daughter gave up the piano - "Because she can't compete with B1."

Not the point. My niece swims at county standard but that doesn't mean I haven't taught her cousins how to swim. Niece also had a reading age of 14 and a half when she was still at infant school but, for some strange reason, my kids still read books.

Am actually quite grateful now that my children aren't 'brilliant' at anything. It sets impossible standards for every other part of life.

See - told you I was lovely.

This sounds so much like my eldest she was reading Junior books in reception. It didn't make her brilliant though and it would have been much better had she read at a normal pace. It made her look for immediate results and not really able to work at things to take them to the next level.

You DO make me laugh, tdm...

Oh TDM - Of course you are

You obviously have your head screwed on properly

And I mustn't forget to mention how wise you are !!!

(You can pop the cheque in the post!!!)