Hi; is there anyone out there who can answer this for me? Looking at the 2004 Grade 5 past exam papers, there are questions on transposition in which the music has been written out without a key signature. All the accidentals are shown explicitly, but the question states (eg) that the piece should be transposed without using a key signature and do not show "un-necessary" sharps and flats.

Earlier exercise books that I have worked through for grade 5 say that if there is an accidental in the original piece, there should be a corresponding accidental in the transposed piece. But, in this case, I am finding that I add a lot of "natural" signs, often in brackets, which seems doubly pointless and in conflict with the instructions in the question.

Can anyone offer any advice on this?

many thanks
- Graeme

QUOTE (gsm @ Jan 19 2005, 11:13 PM)

All the accidentals are shown explicitly, but the question states (eg) that the piece should be transposed without using a key signature and do not show "un-necessary" sharps and flats. Earlier exercise books that I have worked through for grade 5 say that if there is an accidental in the original piece, there should be a corresponding accidental in the transposed piece.

Hi Graeme - if you're transposing without key signatures you just have to make sure you include all the sharps or flats found in the key you're transposing into, plus any accidentals shown in the original. What they mean by not including any unnecessary sharps or flats is that you obviously don't have to repeat them in the same bar, nor over tied notes etc, but you do have to remember to cancel accidentals where necessary.

Sorry, I know what I mean, but I'm useless at explaining, so I hope someone else replies to your post....

Thanks very much - confirmed my suspicions. I was confused because some of the accidentals were no longer necessary after transposition. I was confused by the absence of a key signature, but I suppose that makes no difference.

Cheers
- Graeme

In the transposing questions where there's a key signature, yes, the accidentals need to correspond (ie. you'd put in new key sig, write out the notes at the required interval and then deal with each note with an accidental - even if it's a 'reminding' accidental).

When there isn't a key signature it won't end up looking like that - eg if you're transposing up a perfect 5th and there's a Bb, your note will be an F, if there's a B yours would be an F# etc - so the accidentals won't correspond on the page. The best plan is to write it out as if for someone to play from - don't clutter it up with extra natural signs etc!

As Jen said, this is much easier to demonstrate with concrete examples than to explain in words!

As far as I'm aware, a natural IS an accidental also as it cancels a sharp or flat that is in the key signature. It acts exactly the same way as a sharp or flat would when there is no keyisignature... i.e. it changes the key in some way....causing an "accident(al)"

Dictionary Definition:-

"Accidental: MUSIC..Any of various signs that indicate the alteration of a note by one or two semitones or the cancellation of a previous sign."

Gae

QUOTE

When there isn't a key signature it won't end up looking like that - eg if you're transposing up a perfect 5th and there's a Bb, your note will be an F, if there's a B yours would be an F# etc - so the accidentals won't correspond on the page. The best plan is to write it out as if for someone to play from - don't clutter it up with extra natural signs etc!

Thanks "jo.clarinet" (btw - cool - I too play clarinet) - I think you have hit the nail on the head, but there now seems to be a difference of opinion emerging...

So, here is the true (underlying question):

• The question asks you to transpose with no key signature and without using any un-necessary sharps or flats
  
• So, if you come across a Bb in the original, and transpose that up a perfect 5th, the answer should be F (F natural, flattened from F#)
  
• In the transposed piece, do you write "F-Natural", or just "F"?
  

The conflict comes in because

• One rule says that each accidental in the original should be matched with one in the transposed piece, in which case "Bb" -> "FNat" (and show the "natural" sign)
  
• But the question instructs you not to use any un-necessary accidentals, in which case "Bb" -> "F" (without the "natural" sign)
  

Now, ordinarily (if there was a key signature), I would go with the first of these - that is, "Bb" -> "FNat" (and show the "natural") sign, so I am pretty sure that is correct, and I think this agrees with the advice from "Jen W" ?

But somehow the way the question was phrased ("don't use a key sig and don't use un-necessary accidentals") seems to have confused me...

I think it is because I understand why the accidentals should be preserved if there is a key signature, but explicitly not using one seems to change the rules somehow - that is, if the questions says not to use a key sig, that doesn't mean "treat it as if its "in C" but with a load of accidentals".

I'm a bit confused by this. Is there perhaps anyone who reads this forum that is also an examiner or marker, and could give a definitive answer?

Thanks
- Graeme.

Hi Graeme, I think as long as your keeping the accidentals the same your ok. Watch out for the enharmonics thats what caught me. They like adding the tricky questions to make you sweat a bit. How are you being asked to transpose, because transposing up or down major seconds and minor thirds tends to be straight forward, its the fifths that will get you. Who teaches you theory? You should ask them, or submit a message to one of the teachers.