The topic of contrabassoon keeps getting brought up in the NW household and has been made worse when DS saw a boy of 12 playing one the other day making it impossible for me to say he is too small. Because he works so hard I almost feel that I should let him have a go as a reward for all his hard work. Imagine a contrabassoon lesson being a reward! He has tried his old bassoon teachers contrabassoon.

I intend to think about this for some time however, so I have as much information as possible in an attempt to put a stop to his sillyness, I have a couple of questions:

Would learning the contrabasson now (taking it slowly, more of a hobby) affect his bassoon playing - would he get fingerings confused or his embouchere be affected?

What is the repertoire like for contrabassoon - Howarths doesn't offer a rental one?

Where can we rent one and what would the cost be?

Are there exams? I think I asked this before but have lost the link.

Myatts in Hitchin might rent one, bu I know nothing about them. They make a great sound though.

I'm a flautist, not a bassoonist, but this is my understanding of bassoons/contrabassoons:

The contrabassoon is primarily an orchestral instrument, used mainly by some of the late Classical, Romantic and 20th Century composers. It is usual for one of the bassoon players to double onto the contrabasson, as a lot of music doesn't require the instrument - in much the same way as one of the flute players doubles onto piccolo or alto flute when this is required, and an oboist doubles onto Cor Anglais.

I'm actually a bit surprised at the 12 year old playing the contrbassoon already. For comparisson, I think a bass flute would be too heavy for most children at that age - and I imagine that a contrabassoon is heavier than a bass flute. It's not just a question of whether he can physically hold and play the instrument, but also whether the unseen strain of doing so can gradually cause damage and create a higher injury risk. You don't know, at the moment, whether that 12 year old is storing up problems for later. I seem to recall that you've had a spike fitted to his bassoon, persumably because he cannot yet manage the weight of that instrument? A contrabassoon would be heavier than a standard bassoon...

Any decision about contrabassoon will need to be taken by the RCM. However desparate he is to play the contrabassoon they won't allow it until they think he is ready for it. Follow their advice on this.

I have seen two styles of contrabassoon, one which is massive and the other which is smaller but wider than a standard bassoon. Having attempted to play the smaller version, which comes with a spike DS has said that it is more manageable with less stretching so that is not an issue.

So now he is at the RCM, will I need to ask permission for any other instrument he learns?

This is not the boy that DS saw playing contra but it seems there are some children of around 12 who play it and the NCO even have a slot. Of course, there is no way on this earth that I would ever let him play one this size!!!

http://www.streathamguardian.co.uk/news/49..._contrabassoon/

The instruments are very closely related, so contrabassoon would need to be part of his bassoon study. Would you take up the Cor Anglais without discussing it with your oboe teacher? I don't think your oboe teacher would be entirely pleased if you did, and the same applies to bassoon and contrabassoon. This would be the same regardless of where the teacher was based (so not just an RCM issue).

I'm not entirely sure, but suspect that the RCM would want to know about ANY instrument he learns, even if it isn't related to the bassoon...

Erm... but that's what a contra looks like. And have you seen the size of the cases for them? Admittedly, I have never seen one of the shorter, wider ones you talk about.

I was going to mention about orchestral bassoonists doubling on contra, but I see Flossie has beaten me to it. I would also add that in a modern symphony orchestra it is not usually Bassoon 1 who does the doubling - it's more likely to be Bassoon 2 or even Bassoon 3. Principal Bassoon tends to be just that.

Please, please take the advice of the experts about whether your son is physically ready to do this (if you do decide to go ahead). It would be really awful if he ended up with a chronic injury that could have been avoided by waiting a few years.

Don't worry, I will seek advice but I always come on here first to test the water. The contra that his current and ex teacher have looks like this:



It is obviously heavier but posture is better, which makes it easier. I've been telling him that students have to be grade 8 bassoon before being allowed to play contra but I know it's the first thing he's going to ask when he goes to the RCM!

Dash it!! Now you attach the picture, of course I have seen one like that! I couldn't seem to conjure up any image in my mind, but perhaps that's just me and Friday afternoons not mixing... I do apologise. The chap who regularly plays contra in my orchestra has one of the taller ones. And I wasn't joking about the size of the case - it's huge.

Has your son shown any enthusiasm for composing yet? If you could steer him down that route, then by the time he is big enough/you have enough space in your house/you're sure your car is big enough/you've saved up enough money* for the contra, he could have expanded its repertoire massively!

*Delete as appropriate

Honestly - not right now. It is just a distraction. There is practically no solo repertoire, orchestral opportunities are limited and he's such a newbie on bassoon anyway that this isn't the time to go down the doubling route. When he's got a really secure technique and the maturity to go with it, then if he is playing in a group that will need a contra it can be looked at. As far as he's concerned, just tell him to discuss it with the RCM JD in the autumn :-)

Given a choice between contra and double bass, many chamber groups will go for string bass as being more versatile.

I agree. I'm sure the best way to get good on the contra is to get really good on the bassoon first.

Cost? - well the cheapest I can see on Howarth's site is the thich end of ?8000.

Composing! and at the morbid monstrosities he will come up with, but a great idea - thanks!

Anway, it seems like a waste of a thread because he came home asking to play the harp - we know who to blame. But, we have compromised (or I have compromised myself) and he is getting the drum kit I vouched I would never have in the house!

Noooooooooooo........

I don't mean don't do it. I just mean I'm jealous.

*gently nudges OP in direction of the help-I'm-overloaded need-stressfree-schedule thread started previously*

*gently nudges strongly shoves OP in direction of the help-I'm-overloaded need-stressfree-schedule thread started previously*

Although I agree about asking the teacher's advice, I just wanted to point out that in many ways the cor-anglais is easier than the oboe - because the reed is marginally larger it doesn't need quite such high pressure and is less exhausting to play. When I first started the oboe, my teacher used to bring his cor anglais to my lesson quite regularly for me to play on. I have had my own cor anglais for a couple of years and he sometimes suggests that I use it for particular technical exercises before I play the same thing on the oboe.

Obviously I have no idea if this is the same with a basson/contra-basson.

Should I have learnt the cor anglais first?

Considering it the other way round. Once you've mastered the oboe, the cor will be a doddle.

No, I think you would have found the oboe very hard afterwards. But I think the cor anglais can help with the oboe. (And if you have some spare money lying around buy yourself a cor instead of a contrabassoon for your son ).

I've posted about it already but I think it was before you joined but when I first started if I played a phrase on the cor-anglais and then immediately on the oboe, I had a wonderful oboe tone. I was very disappointed when it lost this "magic" effect, even though my teacher said it was because I had improved. (It was something to do with it being easier to play with an open throat on the cor because of the wider reed).

We were asking at D2's new school this time last year about bassoon lessons, but they didn't have a bassoon available , so the head of music suggested cor anglais instead. The oboe / bassoon teacher told her this was a non starter and that oboe should be learnt before cor. Then a bassoon became available and the rest is history!

I sent an email to Howarths on the day I started this thread and they got back to me today to say they rent the contras out for ?150 per week! The dearest bassoon is ?60 per month!