It has been announced today that Miss Francesca Massey is to assume the post of Sub Organist at Durham Cathedral from September the 1st. She is currently Assistant Organist at Peterborough Cathedral.

Keith Wright, the Sub Organist since 1991, is moving to York to be Assistant Director of Music & Head of Keyboard at St Peter's School and Director of Music at St Olave's Church in the city centre. Oliver Brett, currently Assistant Organist, is moving to St Mary's Cathedral, Sydney, Australia. Thus far there is no news on the status of the 'Assistant' position.

James Lancelot continues strong in post as Organist & Master of the Choristers, a position he has held since 1985. He has seen out a number of assistants and clergy alike by now, it would seem!

All good wishes,
Tosher

Wow, I can see that music at St Olave's is going to become even better! More reason to go there more regularly, methinks!

Yes indeed; it does sound like a case of "All Change" at Durham. After so many years of musical stability I wonder why? St Olave's Church in York certainly seems to be a winner here, and I daresay that Keith will be heard playing in the Minster from time to time.

SB

I wonder if there's some cost cutting, when did the Assistant Organist post come in to being? It wasn't there in the mid-nineties.

As far as I know, (in recent times anyway), the post of Assistant Organist only came in to being when Oliver Brett was appointed in May 2009. There has been no organ scholar at Durham for the past year or more, so perhaps the new post was created to fill that gap?

Going forward, I wonder whether there is a plentiful supply of young organists waiting to fill these posts, or whether our cathedrals will one day be reduced to playing 'No Organist - No Problem' CD's?

SB

I believe there are more organ scholars than there are organs!

If that is true, why are there so many unfilled organ scholarships; not just in cathedrals, but also in public schools?

SB

Well, we know of one young organist with a lot of potential who seems also to have the tenacity and commitment required for such a career.

Hardly a career to aspire to though is it. A thankless task I would think. Surely it is far better to keep it as a hobby to be fully indulged and to earn some proper money doing something else!

As it happens, the young man in question had a play at Durham on Saturday after Evensong, and I think rather enjoyed himself. (That is an understatement by the way. ) He was also complimented on his fingering, which he was extremely pleased about.

SB

If my own experience of Parish Church Politics is anything to go by, all the would be willing organists will gave been driven away from Parish Church life in only a few years time by those who have little understanding on why it is important to do the job properly.

I hear what you are saying Confutatis, and you make a very good point; but I think yours is a rather negative outlook. Ultimately it depends on what the individual wants to do with their life, and what they expect in return.

In terms of sheer financial reward I daresay you are absolutely right; but all of the people I have ever known in cathedral music departments seem to thoroughly enjoy their work, irrespective of their salaries. On the other hand I know of many people who earn very good money, but hate every minute that they spend at work.

I know what I would rather do.

SB

Of course and each to their own. However, as a parent I would be doubly-sure that any offspring of mine had a trade to fall back on should 'the dream' fail to materialise, or indeed to allow a career change later on. Perhaps that takes the romance out of it, but I am nothing if not pragmatic.

Indeed, the cathedral/major church route for an organist is an extremely small marketplace and to be a success, having a virtuoso technique on the organ is just one of the many skills that will be required. You can see therefore that the chances of success are low - even with a motivated/pushy parent relentlessly guiding their child in that direction.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Excellent. If he can establish good connections with people there then he'll be well on the way to having the sorts of references which will help him to really stand out on his scholarship applications.

Yes; agreed, although I think that perhaps you misunderstood me. There are of course many career options, of which the cathedral/major church route that you mention is just one. I don't think for one minute that SBJ has any illusions about how difficult this would be, but I think he would love to try a scholarship if he had the chance.

However, the point I was trying to make was that I would far rather follow a career that I really enjoyed, even if it didn't pay very well, than being paid well but hating every minute of my work. I have personal experience of working in a large corporate, and whilst I really enjoyed my work I found the office politics made it impossible to continue. When the political axe finally came I decided to start my own business, and have never regretted it.

For what its worth I am not pushing our children in any direction other than that which they choose themselves; hopefully with good guidance from ourselves and from teachers. As it happens our daughter is a very good Cornetist, but she is determined to become a Vet, so we will do whatever we can to support her in that, as long as she doesn't turn our house into a menagerie before she leaves for Uni.

SB

Spot on in my experience, though I'm inclined to replace "little" with "no". I know of very few places outside cathedrals where music is properly valued and encouraged. Of course, all churches claim to encourage good music, but mostly this just translates into a naive enthusiasm for cack-handed amateurishness, at least in my neck of the woods. There does, though, still seem to be a steady supply of talented young organists nationally to fill the few posts that are worth having, sometimes bred from within the cathedral network (i.e. ex choristers).

I arranged a whole load of music for the music group... believe me it was necessary only find out somebdy believed they had "already done the job" and it "wasn't necessary" and "could not understand why I spent all that time doing all that work".

Next time I was asked to dep, I looked at the list of music thought OK it's a family service but this music is better suited to the Organ and not the Piano then was asked "why did I use the Organ and not the Piano?"

erm, because it was the right instrument for the job perchance? It was there? That's like saying well MrsD we know you have Grade 8 oboe and can just get a note out of the flute, why is it that you prefer playing the oboe to the flute?.... Because I'm better at it?

I think there is a plentiful supply of enthusiastic, knowledgeable young organists to fill the Cathedral and Parish Church posts, many of which have rich musical traditions and training. Only this evening I was practicing away and in one of the annexe halls to the chapel itself 'Slimming World' was taking place. A young boy, say of 7 or 8, came down to the listen to the organ, and was simply captivated by the sound. Who knows, perhaps this might have been a formative experience that will influence the rest of his life? You just do not know. These kinds of experiences were for me key.

It is fortunate that so many opportunities ARE there for those who are interested. We heard only earler from SB that SBJ had the chance to play on the Durham Cathedral organ - surely an inspirational experience. The words 'Seek and ye shall find' spring to mind. Whilst people delight in cynicism, in the same way as we love cups of tea and queueing, we must remember that there is much to rejoice about in our church music.

Back on to the favourite topic on this forum, politics - these kinds of issues tend to blow up in smaller churches where there is no clear hierarchy, mission or sense of purpose above and beyond 'the routine' for many of the worshippers. To make this relative to the topic posted again, and quoting somebody else, I can hardly see James Lancelot having to deal with the flower ladies. And as things move forward, the young Miss Massey I am sure will bring some fresh talent and zeal to Durham, like so many others will in the future as things like education and opportunities evolve.

Tosher

I can assure you from experience as a former diocesan music adviser that these situations are by no means limited to smaller churches. Larger churches can and do at times suffer from just the same issues.

They can also occur where there is a clear hierarchy, mission and sense of purpose. All you need is a priest with a big ego, a cosed mind and an unshakable vision of how they want their church to be - a vision in which musical standards are not relevant, or, in one case I know, even undesirable.

And I'm sure if he had to, he would do it with great charm.

We were rehearsing something on one occasion and he decided he wanted something to stand on, so in the middle of the crossing called out loudly summoning a verger.

This is sometimes the case; but more often there is a happy-clappy element in the church made up of individuals who can be very persuasive, and are prone to taking their ball home if they don't get their own way. The same people also like to desecrate our liturgy by replacing traditional words such as thee, thine and thy with you, and mankind with people or human kind.

The clergy seem to be impotent against such individuals, whilst PCC members are branded elitist or dinosaurs if they dare to speak out against this nonsense.

I am now 'Gonna Click Click Click, Clap Clap Clap'.

However, I fear this is all rather

SB

I thought that Ian Shaw was by far and away the best Assistant/Sub organist Durham ever had. Apart from his playing I liked his personality! Does anyone know where he is now? London I guess.

According to www.organrecitals.com he is currently at St John's, Greenhill, Harrow.

SB

I think there are at least two organists called Ian Shaw.
The 1979-1980 RCO Year Book lists . . .
I C Shaw, Organ Student, St John's College, Cambridge
and
I R E Shaw, St Andrew's, Sudbury, and Music Master, Harrow High School
in the 1983-1984 Year Book I R E Shaw has the same entry, and
I C Shaw is Assistant, Durham Cathedral.
http://www.duresme.org.uk/CATH/successn.htm shows Ian Shaw being Sub Organist at Durham from 1982,
moving on "to a post in Opera", and being followed by Keith Wright in 1991.

http://www.sjcchoir.co.uk/OrganTrifold.pdf gives details of the St John's College
Quincentenary Organ Recital Series running throughout 2011 with 24 current and past organ students taking part. Ian Shaw (1978-1981) played on June 5.

I suspect that I R E Shaw is at St John's, Greenhill, Harrow.

Andrew Nethsingha will know what Ian C Shaw is doing now.

RAC

As far as I remember there was an assistant organist at Durham Cathedral in the 1950s and '60s when Conrad Eden was Organist and Master of the Choristers. And I'm sure, too,that his successor Richard Lloyd had an assistant organist.

Durham has always had an "Organist and Master of the Choristers" and a "Sub-Organist". In more recent years there has often been an Organ Scholar, I believe the additional post of "Assistant Organist" dates from the arrival of the girl Choristers.

RAC

[/quote]

Durham has always had an "Organist and Master of the Choristers" and a "Sub-Organist".

RAC
[/quote]

Actually, being picky they've always had a "Master of the Choristers and Organist", but no-one has ever been able to explain to me why Durham is the reverse of everywhere else. Also in the Cathedral Dec is to the left of the altar and Can to the right..............

[quote name='crw310180' date='Jul 25 2011, 09:31 AM' post='1078278']
[/quote]

Durham has always had an "Organist and Master of the Choristers" and a "Sub-Organist".

RAC
[/quote]
Durham is the reverse of everywhere else. Also in the Cathedral Dec is to the left of the altar and Can to the right..............
[/quote]

Not of 'everywhere else' : at Southwell, too, Dec. is to the left of the altar and Can. to the right. And as far as I know Southwell is the ONLY Cathedral to have a 'Rector Chori' (not an Organist and Master of the Choristers and not a Director of Music ! Although the Rector Chori is).

Getting back on topic; we learned yesterday that Daniel Cook, currently at Salisbury, is moving to St David's Cathedral in Wales to take up the No 1 spot.

I am sure everyone here wishes him well in his new post.

SB

PS: I have just realised my mistake in posting this here, but Daniel started at Harlepool, which is almost in the shadow of Durham, so I suppose it is kind of relevant.

Yes that's correct.

Ian R E Shaw moved from St Andrew's Sudbury (Middx) to St John's Greenhill (Harrow, Middx) in 1990 (and is still there). I knew him first when I was organist at St Andrew's Kingsbury.