Hi. I was just looking on the teachers discussion site and noticed that a hot topic of discussion was on group lesson's and seeing a teachers perspective on this I was wondering what the pupils thought.
When I started secondary school four years ago I continued my flute playing in the lessons the school provided. They lasted 15 minutes, cost £30 a term and throughtout the four years I ranged from having 1-4 people in my group (which I think is totally unnaceptable) and my teacher couldn't even play the flute.
Last year I realised that I hadn't proggressed with any grades since grade three which I took in 2001. I have since started having private lessons and I have improved loads and am taking grade 5 next month, and because I have been stopped from doing exams for the past three years I am going to be really pushed to get to grade 8 standard by the time I go to uni.
I also found out that when music teachers in schools apply for jobs which involve teaching instuments that they don't play, Have a one day training course in that instrument, pick up the basics and then are allowed to go and teach that instrument to students. I don't think this is right because it is much easier to learn an instument if your teacher can play it because they can actually show you what they want you to do.

I would be intersted to hear your views on this topic.

xBeejx

I used to do shared lessons on flute to begin with. I guess it's a good way to begin when your mastering the technique because you can share problems with the instrument etc. but I shared with two other girls and they were so lazy and I didn't progress at all because I think the teacher wanted to keep us all at the same level so I was held back. Someone teaching you an instrument who doesn't even play it can hardly be any good. What about advising you on the technique etc.? Many people who have trained for years and years to become masters of an instrument should be the ones to teach. How else would you be able to pick up on things to improve lke tone and things. It takes many years to perfect yourself on an instrument. One day doesn't really seem enough to me if they expect pupils to progress...

xx L xx

Hi

In my school music tuition is free apart from if you use a school instrument it is 5 pounds per term. I have never been taught in a group but sometimes sit in with my teachers other lessons to see how she teaches(i want 2b a teacher) Her group lessons are fine and i dont see a major problem with them until you reach around grade 4/5. When you reach that stage I think you shopuld be having individual lessons.
I dont think that your teacher should be teaching you an instrument they cant even play themselves. Fair enough they might know the basics of how it works etc.. but there are some things on every instrument that only a teacher who can play it can teach you.
Have you spoke to yoor head of music about this or have you thoughtnof having private lessons instead?!

Nat

Free??!! WOW!! That's surely the best way to get more people interested in music... Free beginger lessons should be gven in all primary schools at least! That's great! Where abouts do you live? If every county did that then we would have such a musical Country. Talk to a teacher about the standard o teaching as Nat said, if your paying you should be improving. Although more expensive investing in private lessons is probably better. Remember you can't put a price on something like music!!

xx L xx

honestly, i've never shared lessons before. but i think that it would be fun having friends around. besides, u can also learn from each other's mistakes. but sometimes, it's up to the individual too because some peole prefer to learn alone, as in one on one ( teacher & student only ) - i suppose personally, i attend private lessons and it's great!

ALL THE BEST.

~Cleopatra~

hia

i think group lessons are fine until you find a problem thet no-one else has, cos they move onto something and leave you behind. I've played the clarinet for two years,had a group lesson for a term (me and one other person) and had my own lesson after that. I'm now taking grade 5 so group lessons are a good starting point and work well, but a single lessons way better.

purple dolphin

Of course group lessons work! I had them up until this school year with the teacher i currently recieve lessons from since 2001(beginning of the school year also) and I found that I learnt more in those lessons than I did when I was recieving 1 to 1 lessons from other teachers. I suppose it depends on the teacher, instrument(s) and pupils. I really enjoyed group lessons because it does tend to take the pressure off slightly but I think everyones got to get on with each other, otherwise its a disaster waiting to happen. I got group lessons up until i was grade 6/7 standard and I dont think it ever done me any harm. Although now Im working towards grade 8 I find that an individual lesson is better as you get so much more time to concentrate on the things that need to be worked on.
To be honest I think that the only reason it worked is because my teacher made it fun by getting us to play things together which helped us both giving us confidence ect.

When I was at school all lessons were free (and individual).
I also used scholl instruments and there was no charge for this either.

Those were the days.

Hi leasalonga

I live in Cheshire. Yeah if every county had free music lessons it would be great!!!! Where abouts do you live?! And if you have to pay for lessons how much are they!

Nat

We get free tuition at our school, but we have group lessons. People only get individual lessons if they are way advanced of other people that play the same instrument. I know somebody who is like grade 8 Flute (AMEB) and she group lessons but that is because there is a few of them that are of a pretty high standard. The only person that I know that has individual lessons is my friend, who plays the cello. She has individual lessons (On Cello, group lessons on the violin [with the same teacher on the same day]) due to the fact that there are only 3 cello players in the school and she is far more advanced than them. She missed one orchestra rehearsal (admittedly it was when her mum died) and they fell apart without her.

I didn't like group lessons. They used to only be 20 minutes long and I used to have violin lessons with someone else who was the same standard as me (about grade 5) and 3 others who were beginners. It was a bit of a waste of time because me and the other grade 5 got nothing else done as our teacher had to spend the whole time helping the others. When we asked the school if we could be split into 2 groups, the school said they couldn't timetable it! They were free though!

I began having single (free) lessons when I got to college and I progressed more in a year than I ever had and my teacher was able to help me much more with my technique.

although saying that...group lessons were good fun for doing small ensemble work!

I used to have my violin lessons in a group of 5. That means everyone only got one 5th of the attention and really only one 5th of the lesson when you think about it. The progress was slow and at the pace of the least competent player. Now I share my lesson with one other person - better, but still I only get half of the lesson for myself, eg. when we have to take turns playing scales etc. I have private piano lessons, where everything is tailored to suit me. I get a say in everything I do in my piano lessons, but in violin I have to go along with what my teacher sets for the group. I'd much rather have a lesson by myself.

Where are you? That is interesting that your teachers dont have to play to be able to teach. In our county, you have to be able to demonstrate your teaching skills to a panel and also perform 2 pieces and sight read!!

I dont mind group tuition, I'm taught in a class of 5/6 in Theory and 3 in Grade 7 Recorder, seems to be very good actually!

I didn't mind group tuition - I was taught in a group of three for F horn - until one quit and the other left school and I was on my own. Things improved greatly after that.

I had group tuition for aural which was great because everyone was a lot less self-conscious about the singing bits because we could do them together, and we were all grade 8 musicians so no-one was really very good or bad. I am in a very mixed ability group for GCSE music lessons though, and when we are doing theoretical things like transcribing, some people will need literally 5 times longer than others, so some people sit and get bored while the others get loads of extra help, AND extra lessons...so I think it depends really.
For all my instrumental lessons, I've always had individual tuition and I wouldn't want to change. The only group coaching I have is in quartets/small ensembles, when the less able people get all the help and the more able ones get left to sort themselves out. In a way it's fine because it helps the group as a whole like that, and makes everyone's job easier, but I think it will always be the slower ones getting extra attention, never the ones who need to be pushed ahead.

I suppose ideally every pupil might benefit from both a group plus an individual lesson per week - I know I've read somewhere that some american and asian studios do this. The group lessons will benefit playing together and aural skills - listening to each other etc, - and peers can be harsher than teachers! - but then individual lessons give the one-to-one important for ironing out technical problems and making sure the pupil's individual needs are met.

I have always had individual lessons in all the instruments i learn - apart from singing. This is because i am practically the only person in my whole school who does music! Most others do it to get of lessons - they never practise, do grades etc, and there only about a handfull of people! We don't have any orchestras or choirs and I think it is pretty pathetic.
I recently started having private clarinet lessons instead of peraputic and he immediately took me off grade 6 and put me on grade 8 because i have been held back for years. (I was on grade 6 for 2 years!!) I have had 8 teachers altogether in 5 years, and the only good ones i have had are my private clarinet teacher and my new peraputic teacher who has taken me from grade 5 flute to grade 7 and grade 1 sax to grade 6 in the space of a term.


<3...Daisy x xx

Wow Daisy, that's amazing progress! So you went up 2 grades in clarinet, 2 grades in flute and 5 grades in sax? Just from having different teachers/individual lessons?

Wow Daisy, that's amazing progress! So you went up 2 grades in clarinet, 2 grades in flute and 5 grades in sax? Just from having different teachers/individual lessons?
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thank u!!! i was pretty chuffed myself and i got entered into 4 youth music group things and i am a reserve for the national youth wind orchestra of wales!! it's really surreal!! (that sounds sad)
If i hadn't of done my work experience with my new teacher none of this would have happened because i would never have had private lessons with him!!
It's amazing what lessons can do isan't it?

<3...x x x x x

I have lessons at school but fortunately I am on my own. I tend to get a 20-25 minute lesson, which often runs to 30 mins cos we always have too much to do! I'm finding now though that I do need longer lessons to get everything in, but I really don't want to lose my teacher. I had group lessons for a term (only two of us) which I really enjoyed, but then I think that was just because I was at the beginning stage. But even in a group I managed to get to grade 1 standard within a term.

I started off with group lessons on the violin, which I suppose were OK but since there were only two of us (in a group of 4) who actually wanted to be there it got really wearing. With you're teacher not even being able to play the instrument, I know my violin teacher also teaches wind and hasjust started teaching some flutes. He didn't play flute before but he had been asked so he bought himself a flute and taught himself for about a month before teaching and made sure that they knew that he was't a flautist and I think put the price of lessons down.
I think this is quite acceptable seeing as there weren't any other flute teachers available but to be teaching in a school with only one days learning is awful!!!
Anna

I hate group lessons I started clarinet in a group of 3 clarinet sand 3 flutes! Lesson were £2 for half an hour. The teacher taught me the clarinet completely wrong, didn't pick up on the bad habits I was getting into and it took me over 5 years to undo it all. It was a nightmare trying to play with everyone as people were doing different grades and going at different paces.

I had a lesson with 2 other players when I started at secondary school, but one girl was a grade ahead of me, and the other was a complete beginner.

Needless to say, I didn't get anywhere until I started having lessons on my own.

I had lessons with other 2-3 other pupils for aboutthe first 4 years of my tuition . By the end of the 4 years i was only at about grade 4/5 standard . I then went on to have lessons on my own and my playing shot of to about grade 8 standard in the space of about a year and a half .

I found that in group lessons you had to move at the pace of the other people in your lessons . Whereas with one-to-one tuition you can work at your own rate .

Julie x

I think there are a lot of instrumental teaching posts for WOODWIND rather than for individual woodwind instruments - the teachers will be a specialist on one or maybe two of the wind family and have a basic knowledge of the others - it's not their faults - music services often advertise for general woodwind teachers. I was initially taught flute by an clarient teacher (in a group lesson of 2) and then an oboe teacher (one to one) who between them took me to grade 7 - I then got into the RNCM junior school and started with a flute specialist who totally transformed my playing.....yes, I had picked up bad habits from the fact that the first 2 teachers didn't know good from bad technique but it wasn't permanent, and I certainly can't blame the teachers, you can only blame the system. Afterall you can't expect woodwind teachers to be diploma standard in 5 different wind instruments!!!
I used to teach flute but no longer as I no longer have the time to play or practise it, and I personally refuse to teach an instrument which I'm not actively practising anymore, but woodwind teachers probably don't have that luxury.......

It does depend largely on the teacher - I've known teachers who could get excellent results in group lessons, and others who can't teach for toffee even in a 1-to-1.

I think that it's silly to assume (as some do) that you can structure group lessons (even if it's only 2 students) the same as individual lessons, you need to have more flexibility and be able to keep everyone's interest whilst also being on the look out for individual problems. Not an easy task at all, and I think some teachers just haven't had enough guidance on how to manage it.

I think a combination is probably the best ideal, but not everyone has the opportunity.

I used to have group lessons with another girl when i started playing guitar and i hated it because i mastered loads in the first month and it took her a year to do what i had done. In the end i swapped to individual because my teacher went on about how i would improve if i did - and i have improved alot which is why i think it's better to have individual.

I have usually given group lessons at school to the younger recorder players. These are really music lessons with some recorder work included. The progress is slower than with solo lessons but it suits many children. I prefer to give ont to one lessons but this was not always possible in school with years one to four players. I keep the groups small and we manage. I am really fed up with teachers who offer to teach instruments that they cannot play! It happens so often in my own speciality, recorder playing. I hear of teachers offering lessons who are self taught and who have never passed even a grade one exam in recorder playing. They do not understand basic techniques or realise that there is a difference between recorder tonguing for example and that of other woodwinds. It would never, never ever happen in another subject. Can you imagine being taught physics for example by a geography teacher who was self taught and only a lesson ahead of his class?

I had group violin lessons at middle school, and it took my 4 years to get to grade 1. I started having lessons in school when i first went to upper school but didnt like the etacher so went back to my old violin teacher but had private lessons. With the private lessons i went from doing my grade 2 that term, to grade 5 pieces a year later (just shows that group lessons are less constructive because i had the same teacher the whole time). Also with private lessons you get your full amount of time rather than about 5 minutes in a lunchtime if they are running late in school. When i started playing the flute i went to private lessons straight away as my school wouldn't give me lessons and did my grade 3 within 8 months, and am doing my grade 5 at the end of this year. The only time we really get decent lessons at school is if you take A level music because you get 40 min lessons and don't have to pay (everyone else pays £95 a year for a 25 min lesson a week).

I started off with lessons on my own, but within 3 months had joined 2 others girls who were the same standard as me on flute..we all took G1 at the same time, despite the fact that tehy's been learning 6 months longer than me!
I continued to have group lessons with them for about another, and then went back to private lessons, as they wanted to do 'all the grades' wheras I was happy to skip G2 and jump to G3. I've continued to have lessons on my own every since then - sadly not at the price some of you seem to have had them at! It used to cost me £112 for 10 lessons of 30 minutes lesson on my own - I only got a reduction when I began doing GCSE music!

Not necessarily - it does depend on the teacher.

I started violin lessons at 7, and didn't have lessons on my own till I was at secondary school, but got to grade 4-5 standard by the time I was 11. I actually progressed much faster in the group lessons than I did when I was having lessons only with one other person or completely on my own at secondary school, because the teacher who taught us in group lessons was 1) a very good teacher and 2) really knew how to teach effectively in a group.

I have had group flute lessons since i started playing the flute and have no problem with them. I have just found out that i am having lessons on my own this term which i am looking forward to but i will miss the chance to play trio's and duets.

My teacher has had to give group lessons because at my school there are so many pupils who learn instruments that she has to fit us all in.

She is a bassoon player but i dont think that this means that i am not given the best teaching. i just passed my grade 4 flute and got a merit and i was really pleased.

I get a half hour long lesson every week of term and it doesnt cost anything because in Scotland if you are doing Standard Grade or Higher music you get instrumental lessons free.