Three weeks to the audition is not long. I really don't think he's going to be prepared as we cannot fit in enough practice in such a short time. It's just come on so quickly. In some ways I'm not quite as bothered now though because I wanted him to get in so it would help with his senior school pre-tests but as he's not going to these schools now there is less need. I would also like him to get a rejection because so far in his musical life he has never been turned down for anything and he needs to start getting used to it.

Wow, that's a bit harsh, isn't it? Few children sail through school life with no setbacks, and I don't think you need to start wishing for them to appear - they'll come soon enough.

I hope your son enjoys the audition whether or not he gets in.

Now Berkshiremum, I can't possibly get into an argument having been back less than a day!

Fight! Fight! Fight!

Dang, can’t add an “I’m only joking” smiley in edit mode!

That's what you'll be doing when you see my playing next week!

Might have to send you to my piano dungeon.



(Concept dreamed up by one of my cute little pupils to deal with students who fail to practise!)

I see things are getting back to normal very quickly!!!

MNW - do you REALLY want your DS to fail like that? Set backs DO come to us all and soon enough. Let him enjoy his successes while he can.

DS' Footy team recently played their first ever 11-a-side game. DS was limping and in pain, so they put him in goal (as he couldn't run about much). It was against a VERY good team, with a very ambitious manager, and the end result was an real thrashing for DS' team. DS' coach was very good and rallied them round and the other boys were lovely to DS (after all it is a team game and they all played as if it was mini footy!). But we still had tears and a very unhappy boy. BUT he did turn up to play for his team rather then letting them down and he did some fantastic goal-keeping which isn't his strength at all, so we are very proud of him.

Anyway we are trying to teach him that things don't always go his way and that the best thing is to pick himself up, dust himself down and move on. I'm sure he'll get plenty of opportunities in life to put that into practise!

Am I really dim or is anyone else trying to work out what the acronym DO stands for?

OK, I'm dim

I assumed do with added emphasis (sort of tenuto )

Quite. It took me a while to get there, though

I can't imagine not getting into the NCO will affect him too badly but it may make him realise that music is a competitive world, otherwise he'll get a shock when he goes to Purcell. At the Purcell audition, my other half said he made so many mistakes and came out fighting back tears. He has never cared about anything before so at least we know he wants to go!

I agree we can't and shouldn't protect our children from failure. Look where 'prizes for all' has led. Being a pushy parent (hand up, moi-meme) means one puts them where they might very well fail. But if they aren't allowed to try they will not find out how far they can go. Would BB be heading off for Purcell is you hadn't been brave enough to allow him to risk failure? Same applies to NCO. At some point they'll come to a hurdle they fall at. With the right attitude (=parental "encouragement" on top of picking themselves up) they turn apparent failure into success by learning from it and approaching the next challenge with more maturity (and even, just maybe, a bit more focused practice). At least, that's the theory. The jury is still out around here.

Also, I think it's absolutely OK for you to come on here and voice a fear that you can't otherwise express. What's the alternative? Howling to yourself in the loo?

I don't think we should set our children up to fail this is not healthy. In my opinion thats what real pushy parents do. I've seen it before in real life, different discipline.

I do think that children should try for things where there is some hope of success and be allowed to experience failure (which is what I think you mean). Those who don't always get everything at first attempt often come out stronger. They can learn something from the experience and build skills to put them in a better position for next time.

Emsoboe went for an audition for a national group. We didn't expect her to get a place as there were areas where she lacked experience. At the time of audition she did it with a view to getting feedback and working on things for next time. In the end she was invited to a short course for people in a similar situation. This was one of the best decisions we've made recently, as the ensemble have given her further opprotunities to build her skills. One she has been able to take but another is logistically almost impossible. She loved both the short course and the other project and they have definately enriched her music making.

I can't imagine any sane parent consciously setting their child up to fail and I didn't think that was what I was advocating, but we don't see ourselves as others see us. I do admit to allowing both my children, and on more than one occasion, to be in a position where a fail was more likely than not, based on probability alone. I'm sorry if that seems unhealthy to some of you, but I disagree and neither of my girls would be where they are today if I hadn't allowed and even encouraged that.

On occasion they failed and I could have prevented them being in that position. Yes, of course I gave myself a hard time for it, because I'm a fundamentally decent parent (at least, I think so). But on other ocasions I breathed a sigh of relief when one of them was among the few to get through a hoop. More importantly, I wasn't a good predictor of when they would succeed and when they would not, so was not in a position to judge the "hope of success". I just let them go for it, but encouraged them to give it their all so at least give themselves the best chance. And then if they 'failed', I said how proud I was of them for trying and pointed out how much they had achieved and learnt in the process. If that's unhealthy, then I'm happy to be unhealthy!

I agree- well said Listener!

I didn't think so either which is why I suggested that wasn't what you meant.

Sad to say I have seen it done in real life where it was an unrealistic parental expectation (not music).

I think we (self-confessed pushy parent speaking) can all too easily develop unreasonable expectations or hopes without realising or meaning to, and that's our big worry: how to push enough but not too much, and how to know when to stop. The full-blooded pushy parent suffers not at all with that. Going with what the teacher/coach suggests can help if it's the right teacher (which we've largely been v fortunate with), but they can get carried away too, or have different expectations/aspirations for all sorts of reasons.

Anyway, as this thread is about NCO auditions, most commenting know what it is to push a child gently forward, and then silently panic in the dark hours about what we're doing to them. Children are remarkably resilient and forgiving, thankfully.

So GOOD LUCK to all auditioning, and also their parents/guardians/teachers. If they don't try they can't get in - and all of yours sound well up to it

I'm not setting my kids up to fail but I'd be quite pleased if they did a few times. Of course I would want that to be in something relatively insignificant!

One of the reasons my kids haven't failed in many things is because I always assume they are not that talented so I only put them in for things that I'm confident they will get. That may sound ridiculous but being quite talentless and dim I genuinely don't know when my kids are displaying normal ability or out of the ordinary abilities. When DS1 had his IQ tested (long story) I expected it to be no more than 120 but I was very wrong! Eventhough DS has got a place at Purcell I still think he might not get into the NCO because I really don't know what is expected. I suppose when baboon boy eventually gives a note perfect performance one day, I'll then think that he is really good. Maybe I notice the flaws and can't see the brilliance.

MNW Baboon boy sounds really talented. At least you're not one of those parents whose trying to live out their ambitions through their children!

He got into the Purcell!

Oh it is so lovely to have you back! The wicked person hidden deep within me can't resist noting this... "One of the reasons my kids haven't failed in many things is because I always assume they are not that talented so I only put them in for things that I'm confident they will get." So... who put him forward for Purcell?! (But HE GOT IN and I could do with your decision-making skills)

Japan of course is all about setting people up to fail, but I think the damage comes when we look at "getting into" this or that as an end in itself and not an opportunity to try (and maybe fail!) at something new. That's such an obvious thing to say, but when the competition is tough it's easy to focus on the first step.

Not putting kids in for things....guilty! The mere thought of facing hundreds of mothers of children in white socks put me off any consideration of longterm gains, valuable life experiences etc.

I agree, I am starting to think now that I should have put son in for more things now that he's writing his personal statement, but I really did find the whole competition / audition thing rather distateful. I don't really see myself as a "stage mother".

Awe shucks!

The reason I put him in for Purcell was because something weird happened in a very short space of time which made me think that maybe he was "gifted/talented/whatever it's called". He didn't do a whole amount of practice after his grade 5 exam, probably three weeks in total during the nine week holiday, but by the end of week one he'd mastered most of a grade 7 piece. Maybe it was an easy piece, who knows, but I thought that was fast progress. Had he not done that then I wouldn't have auditioned him as pupils are supposed to be around grade 5 at age 9 for Purcell and he was only grade 1 at age 9.

But in fairness to me. I mentioned it to OH and he decided to put him in for it.

So who has the first audition then?

Ours is the 28th October but after tonights performance we may not bother at this rate. Baboon boy has had a three week break since Purcell and he picked up his new bassoon tonight and it was hideous. Lots of choir commitments and virtually no teaching time in the run up so we may back out. There is failing and there is total humiliation!!!

Daughter's is Tuesday 18th! We did manage to get more of a break between the violin and viola auditions so that at least has worked out OK - so far so good!

DS' audition is 13th October - yep 3 weeks today!!!



Still no sight-reading practise either!

Ours is in the 20th, I hope long enough to master the new piece Claudia is learning for it.

Just to add more doom and gloom, I noticed on the website that they have had a record number of applicants this year and are encouraging more to apply. Over 700 so far!

Has anyone been given times yet? - we only have the date.

Not many of them will be bassoons though MNW!

I don't know, there is the Scottish contingent and there has been a big recruitment drive recently. I made an enquiry at a prep school last term and they had four bassoonists and a bassoon group. I nearly fainted in shock!

Our time is 9:30 am.

Baboon girl is still the only one at her school, although they have a grade 4 distinction tuba-ist just joined year 7!

I think you'll find there are pockets of bassoonists where there has been a recruitment drive by a school or a teacher. But (almost) every school will have dozens of flutes and clarinets. And even where there are groups of bassoons they could all be beginners or relative beginners.

Baboon boy still has several weeks until the audition and at Easter you were saying "He's going to fail, he knows nothing", but a few weeks later he did really well in his exam. If you approach it as he might get in, but if he doesn't it will be good auditioning experience for next time, then it will still be a worthwhile experience.

Despite a supposed lack of oboists you will find pockets of them around. I think it depends on how well the endangered instrument program was run(when available) and who is doing the teaching.

Turns out thing son is auditioning for has absolutely nothing to do with NCO. Thought it was the same organisation but for an older age group, then rechecked website.

So what is it that he is auditioning for?

Great - let's hope there aren't too many little viola players Daughter was saying yesterday she didn't want to audition on viola after all and will stick to violin, this piece of news may change her thoughts! Although then she said that she didn't see the point of auditioning at all as she wasn't sure if she wanted to do the summer course again, and would really rather just do the regionals!

Audition fee is much cheaper this year, may have made more decide to apply (hopefully!) :/

They usually have about 900 apply in total, so as long as it doesn't get much higher than that then shouldn't be any worse than previous years. But I'm sure the ?10 audition fee wil have prompted many more people to have a go...

NYWE - thought it was somehow connected to NCO, but actually has nothing to do with it

Audition date and time arrived today

Our time is smack in the middle of the day 12.45, so we've asked for the whole day off school!!! Even if he isn't successful at least he gets a day off!!! Is that naughty?!!

No! Time to prepare then its hardly worth going back. Also depends how far he's got to travel.

Exactly the same as our time, but our's is in half term.

We haven't heard from NYWE. Not heard anything since the application in fact

Going from bad to worse! Baboon boy now has to board for most of the time until half term. His new bassoon, that he cant getnto grips with because of added keys and it being longer, is in the repair shop - don't ask - so he doesn't even have anything to practice.

Looking forward to hearing some positive news on that front from other members!

OMG - 10 days and he'll have done his audition!!!

But at least that will be one thing over and done with! I'm ready for the Christmas hols already!

Any parents that have experience of the sight-reading? I've been worried about no practice of pieces that I forgot no sight-reading prep will get done! It says for DS age they expect kids to be grades 4-5, does that mean they are expected to sight-read a grade 4-5 piece as normally this level would manage a grade 2-3 piece for sight-reading?

For Strings they have always been given a piece about 6 lines long and the younger kids are told they only need to play the first 2 lines or so. They next 2 lines are harder and the medium aged kids have to do those too. The last 2 lines are impossible and the oldest kids have to do the whole piece including those!

The easiest lines have been about Grade 2-3 for Strings.

Thanks for that Violinjj.

We had a run through tonight on the new bassoon. He was puffed out as he hasn't played in weeks and it is much bigger than he's used to. It went well for a new bassoon but not good enough for an audition. With very little practice opportunities he's not hopeful and he feels very nervous eventhough I've told him I don't care if he gets in!

How's everyone else getting on? If successful he'll be in U12, eventhough he's 10 - anyone else auditioning for that group?