How about sentencing the rioters and looters, instead of to prison, to a year or so of 8 hours a day compulsory attendance at specialist music centres (straight back into jug if they default) where they learn to play and listen to some kind of music other than hate-filled rap or one-chord synthesized stuff with no melody other than random-sounding short-winded interjections - lots of band and ensemble work and plenty of practice time (because you lock the instruments away at the end of the day so they don't sell them ). Plus a curfew probably. Let 'em out when they reach grade 5 plenty of work for music teachers. Sorted.

Seriously - enough variety of activity there for them to have no cause to complain there's nothing for them to do. They could dance. They could sing. The really tone-deaf ones could juggle while riding a unicycle

Excellent idea.

I get really cross when certain young people say there's nothing to do. What they really mean is that no one has given them something fun to do for free and organised by someone else with no effort required on their part. There are loads of clubs to join which cost almost nothing for young people, plus plenty of orgnisations crying out for a bit of help. But lots of them wouldn't want to join something like the Scouts or the cadets because there is effort involved and it's not cool.

I agree this is an excellent idea.

They are trialling the El Sistema idea somewhere in the UK but I don't remember where. I wonder how it is going?

The Scottish one is Big Noise and is based in Stirling. Seems to be going very well - apparently they have expanded from just strings to wind instruments as well

I still remember seeing a programme about the Big Noise project and was treated to the sight of a boy around eight years old playing the tiniest double bass I've ever seen - it was so cute (could really do with an "aw" emoticon)

El Sistema, of course (I'm assuming I'm right) is geared to starting them as children; I'm thinking of something which picks them up later if they've fallen through the net, and as an alternative to prison (OK, you're home secretary for the day: should we offer them the choice?)

Linda, I think you are definitely onto something.

I do know one teenage boy who was a bit lost with no interests, no direction etc. who took GCSE music thinking it was an easy option but from that started an instrument, got really into it and who is now studying music technology. Music is not something he or his parents would ever have considered normally.

So if I kick in enough windows can I go to the RNCM?

Not immediately. You are condemned to five years at Linda's Music Boot Camp first whether you like it or not. If you're already goo enough for the RNCM you get to learn another instrument at Boot Camp, learn to take ensembles and conduct orchestras, Compose music for them, study a new style

Sounds too nice.

I think I'd better think it out again
Oh, and you get a curfew all that time too.

linda.ff you are great ! If only we could!

I'm just slipping on my Doc Martens.

Me too! Is the boot camp residential? full board? do I get to choose the instrument(s)?

Seriously though there is something in it - prison is unlikely to provide answers for these people.

Well the reason I started making these comments is that I'm a bit concerned it might be seen that the only way to get what you want is to kick in a few windows.

In some ways it's a great idea, but I see what pushpull is saying: it seems unfair that those who have been destructive get the opportunity to learn music while others who might be equally or more disadvantaged but law abiding might not be able to afford it.

OK, I'll allow people to volunteer for it as well

Should we put this to Mr Cameron?

Yes!

You firstly need to realise that certainly in one of those areas the riots were orchestrated by a couple of local thugs.

I'm not entirely certain I agree with this idea as it would reflect badly on good kids who happen ot be involved in music.

Much better to make them or their parents pay for the damage and clean up the mess in my opinion

I suggest sentences of community service, starting immediately, to repair the damage they've done.

This is exactly how I think crime should be punished. It should be the criminal that has to clear up the mess, not the poor victim.

And get a treadmill for them to provide the power

I agree, too often it seems to be that it's the ones who misbehave who get the treats. When my youngest son was at primary school, a cup used to be awarded at the end of every week. My son was upset that he never got it - he was always well behaved and tried hard, did very good pieces of art work but didn't particularly excell academically. The award would either go to the more academic pupils, or to those pupils who were badly behaved but had managed to have a good week. The system was very unfair.

At secondary school my son's confidence and self esteem improved dramatically because those students who behaved well in a lesson were awarded by merit stamps. Those children who collected enough stamps gained awards and certificates and could enter into prize draws at the end of term.

Back onto the original topic, in the eyes of my eldest son, if you made the rioters do music lessons you would be awarding them for bad behaviour. There are disadvantaged children who do take advantage of the opportunities to do music - I know a girl who lives in a very poor area of the country who plays in several orchestras and bands. Her mother is a single parent living on benefits on a council estate, but the girl has had free lessons and is doing really well at music.

The trouble is that you need a way out of the vicious circle. The no-hopers DON'T pull themselves together and make an effort. It would be nice to think they would, but experience shows that they don't - they just brand themselves losers, harbour resentment, blame other people, and take it out on others. My suggestions was not to "reward" them by teachng them music. They would be confined to it EVERY DAY for a matter of years - it's an alternative to prison, no choice of not turning up, NO spare time, curfew every night without fail, and you default, you go (back) to prison, simple as that. Would you welcome that kind of treatment?

Perhaps we could combine the two approaches. To start with, they are forced to clean up the mess THEY caused and repair the damaged buildings THEY wrecked. Once that's finished with, they can move on to learning musical instruments. They are made to face up to the consequences of their actions and then they can start to gain all the benefits of music.