Scales in broken thirds are really good for waking your fingers up! You can take the fingerings from here (the scales in 3rds start on the 4th page):

http://erato.uvt.nl/files/imglnks/usimg/b/...e_studies_v.pdf

Plus, I wish I'd worked on them before I started to play double-stopped thirds - when I first tried to learn double stops, the sound of the major scale would completely go out of my head and I'd get all confused with accidentals. Playing broken thirds gets you used to the sound and the pattern of major and minor thirds.

Interesting... I think I find regular thirds more natural than broken thirds. I've never practiced broken thirds as I should...

Lottie, yup 1 finger all the way....the 4th finger is a bit of a swine when you get up to near the two octave mark, but I can feel them doing the job already; intonation is getting more secure and shifting safer, and my thumb is starting to loosen off. I have to combine that with making sure my RH is working properly too.

I have alot more work to do on them though...

I had a breakthrough today, I realised that my 3rd finger RH is kind of important when recovering hand position from the point of the bow....up to now it's been doing nothing and I realised it needs to pull in a little to help the rest of the R hand at that point, particularly the thumb to bend again. It's these things that make the difference!!

Emails arrived today Thank you - you're a star

Now to print them out and give them a go!!

Today's lesson....getting really smooth bow changes crossing strings at the same time, at heel, mid and point of bow. Never knew before about preparing to cross with the elbow moving slightly before the string change. Makes such a difference. If I did, I've forgotten after so many years, my wings are finally going!!

Lots of practice tomorrow before the next lesson on Thurs!

A good teacher is something no money in the world can pay! Thank you for updating and have fun practicing.

how was it today Dawnmc?

Sorry, didn't get time to post yesterday, it was all a bit crazy, parade and then concert listening to 2 of my best friends singing.

He was relatively happy with my bow hand progress, i just have to manage to keep my knuckles and wrist down (ie arm weight on) when using LH too! Struggling a little with recovering the good bow hold from the point. It's coming but still feels really awkward. Also with flexing my fingers on bow changes to smooth them out. However he is pleased with my progress and told me I have a buena cabeza (a good head/brain!!).

This week's new work is 4 octave G major, on one finger. Audible shifts, 1-4 position and then all the way up the E string. No open strings apart from the G.
Then starting open G, A1, B2 then all the way up on 2, same on 3 and then 4!! My poor wee fingers!!

Then same with jumping fingers.

The good news is that I am allowed to play in the string quartet so long as I'm watching my knuckles, wrist and keeping my LH fingers bent!! He reckons November we will start pieces in lessons, starting with something I know, and work on interpretation and phrasing. That's what I really need, I'm always too metronomic and he is so good in that dept!

Next lesson Wed!!

he's certainly keeping you busy!

it sounds like you are having years of technique all condensed in a few weeks isn't it? like a 're-cap'
must be quite exhausting but so exciting at the same time

I am sooooo loving this thread!

Aww thanks, I wasn't sure if it was too much for people by now!

It is really condensed, but being able to play helps tremendously, he loves that fact that most of the time I know exactly what he means, despite being in another language. Oh and he's learning his english too which is a good thing!

Although I'm getting to that stage where there is so much to think about and trying not to slip back to bad habits. It 's hard!!

He saw my band uniform this week and insisted he wanted to put my helmet and jacket on, despite them being way too small, and me take a photo for him. He looked so funny!

actually, language is not the point, my teacher speaks english but I swear half of the time he is talking in another language (I ALWAYS get a headache on a saturday....lesson day, he is used to me taking out the paracetamol packet in lesson, now I also take 'Bach Flower rescue remedy' too!! )


ps keep the thread going please

Yes! Please let this thread go. I am so interested in your journey, even if I don't understand much of the violin specific stuff. Somehow it puts some extra motivation on my own work.

OK, OK, I will, I promise!!

My case arrived....OMG it's so sumptuous and gorgeous! This is it, in this colour....

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS...gXN29xSU5p8Msts

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ...eEw0qQ2Ye28Y7LQ

I broke the bank (although it was cheaper than these) but it was worth it. It's lighter than my old EMPTY violin case with my violin etc AND a big aria collections book in it!! I am delighted with it, and I particularly like the way the bows clip in and the hair is protected. I figure if it's good enough for my teacher's strad then it's good enough for me!

Good practice today, sore fingers again, but my intonation over the octaves is definately improving.

And I took the ocarina group tonight, they seemed to enjoy it, and I'm looking forward to getting them playing in 5 part harmony! Going to be arranging the music for them...

Lovely case... do they do a viola version? Seriously - what make is it please - I'm not happy with my BAM

Sounds like you're having a fantastic time with your music

Thanks Lottie, it's absolutely top quality. Made by Artonus, it's the elipe. I haven't seen one for the viola, but they might make a different style.
Edit:
http://www.thestringzone.co.uk/categories/...nus-viola-cases
But they might be cheaper elsewhere...

Seems to be not only a beatiful but also very good violin case, congratulations!

When will you get the right violin to fit in?

Have fun!

mine will have to do!!

Does this mean you already have the new violin? Sorry if I missed something.

It still needs paying for, but yes I have the new one....I thought you were referring to the strad

I was referring to the strad , but also wanted to know if you already have the lovely new violin .

It's been a good day; 2 enquiries have come back definately wanting to start, and the private school wants more details about my offer to teach up there on a lunch time (I have 2 pupils that would prefer their lessons at school because of travel arrangements). The head teacher asked for more info, she didn't just say no....
hopefully that one could lead to more

Anyone got any small violins gathering dust? Think we might need them

Yes, but I'm not headig to Gib any time soon...

I don't even play the violin and I am absolutely entranced by the fabulous case!!!

[quote name='Dulcet' date='Sep 20 2011, 07:01 PM' post='1091338']
[quote name='Dawnmc71' post='1091275' date='Sep 20 2011, 02:44 PM']

Yes, but I'm not headig to Gib any time soon...

I don't even play the violin and I am absolutely entranced by the fabulous case!!!
[/quote]

Haha no but I have a BFPO address so postage doesn't have to be a huge problem!!
Got someone looking for probably an 1/8 size.... (he's 5, bless him)

LOL about the case!

[quote name='Dawnmc71' date='Sep 20 2011, 08:21 PM' post='1091346']
[quote name='Dulcet' date='Sep 20 2011, 07:01 PM' post='1091338']
[quote name='Dawnmc71' post='1091275' date='Sep 20 2011, 02:44 PM']

Yes, but I'm not headig to Gib any time soon...

I don't even play the violin and I am absolutely entranced by the fabulous case!!!
[/quote]

Haha no but I have a BFPO address so postage doesn't have to be a huge problem!!
Got someone looking for probably an 1/8 size.... (he's 5, bless him)

LOL about the case!
[/quote]

Ah I only have a 1/2 size. "Scruffy" is one of my favourite books so I would like to visit Gibraltar one day!

Believe it or not I haven't read that book... If I need a 1/2 size I know where to come LOL

Lesson 7 today (is that all?) and he's happy with my progress...

Today he gave me a great exercise to work on both LH and RH together but separately and be able to concentrate on everything together: 1 finger scale of 4 octaves but very very slow:

Start at heel. Get LH in a good position, all fingers curved etc. Place RH, check knuckles, arm relaxed, wrist down etc. Move the bow 5 cm at a time, watching RH position all the time and altering towards point. THEN pause...move 1st finger to next position, check LH position, elbow, fingers etc..then forget LH and concentrate on RH on the up bow, 5 cm at time, bringing hand back to flat position etc.

It was brilliant as it gives time to watch everything. Think it's going to help a lot this week.

2nd exercise was 1 finger scales again (with slides between shifts), but this time quicker at the heel only (10-15 cm bow) to try to smooth up my bow changes. Found out I'm speeding the bow a little at the change and that's what is giving the crunch. So less speed and a little less weight and hey presto! Now just got to practice it in.

Oh and I paid for my violin so she's all mine now! Now what to call her??? Walking with my light case today was fantastic, what a difference!

Next lesson in a week's time...which gives me more time to be able to practice everything else!!

Sorry it just went into my head. Sounds good what you describe from your lessons. Oh, the lucky players of all other instruments except the flute. They all can check by sight if things are OK. Only we poor flute players can not (or we have to buy a big mirrow and find a place for it).

For those going "huh?", Scruffy is a book by Paul Gallico, about a barbary ape (tailless macaque really but hey you can't fight tradition) when there was great concern about the rate of decline of the primates during WWII.

Responding (sort of) to your technical post; DS2 hurt his l-h index finger on Monday (sliced off some skin on the pad) so found it painful to play the cello. He did 15 minutes of open strings exercises really focussing on bowing. It helped! I did discover that he couldn't keep his lh properly on the neck without using his first finger, which was interesting. Perhaps we do need that corn plaster for his left thumb.

I did tell my lasping violinist friend about one finger scales to avoid the death grip and preparing for a string change by lifting the elbow - she was quite excited about the idea of one finger scales and thought she'd tell her teacher when she goes back for lessons.

His thumb should be under his 2nd finger not his first (unless he's playing in 4th position).

Be warned that the elbow movement is only slight. No flapping wings!

The one finger scales do work, but starting with the sliding shifts because that really helps intonation too.

Another thing I have difficulty with is moving LH thumb at high positions from behind the neck to tuck under the fingerboard and back. Today he's suggested I do what he does, keep the thumb behind the ribs of the violin, and slide it round and back as required. Haven't tried it yet, will be an interesting practice tomorrow. Anyone else do this? I imagine you can only do that with long fingers!

not sure what you mean Dawnmc....

look at this photo, do you mean this?

[url=

by the way, I am not suggesting at all you are going to ditch your shoulder rest, but.....ever since I have started playing with no shoulder rest I am finding this very very easy (shifting up to high positions and back down very quickly, and moving my thumb from the side of fingerboard and under and around to the opposite side to the ribs of the violin and back down again), I think it's because now that I actually 'hold the violin with my hand' maybe I use the 'sensory' pathway of my brain 'more'??? (bit like a blind man with a walking stick???) and my 'dexterity' as become much much better??? (ie my muscles etc have really developed to respond better.. am I making any sense???).
Maybe the answer for you might be to still use the shoulder rest but somehow find a way that you use your hand in holding the violin a little more (maybe not completely but that you give your hand a little more responsability?)

Maybe I am just talking rubbish maybe you are already doing this and that is not the issue at all?
sorry if I am talking nonsense

Hi Jojo, yes like in your photo but with the thumb a little lower (his was central on the rib) and then sliding the hand around to the right as the positions get higher. He checked how much stretch I have in my hand between my thumb and 1st finger before he suggested it. If I don't like it I stick with the other movement.

As to the shoulder rest, he took some height off it on the first lesson, and moved my violin so it was a little more to the left, ie laid the shoulder rest on my shoulder so it fits the contour of my shoulder properly, and then added the violin to position the rest properly. I've looked at the shoulder rest position link, and I have very sloping shoulders (bane of my life with bra straps ) so I think I will always need a rest.

I like the idea of "giving my hand more responsibility" I just get stuck and wasn't exactly sure when to move. The method above is smooth, there is no sudden thumb change.

Really looking forward to practice today, it will be a voyage of discovery!

Bear in mind that the photo was taken ages ago when I very first started to play with no shoulder rest (about 9 months ago) and I was 'posing' so I am not sure exactly where my thumb rests when I go to very high positions, it 'could' be that it is a little more central on the ribs, but there again it doesn't really make any difference, it is all relative to YOUR finger length/hand shape at the end of the day.
Oh! AND I was holding the violin quite differently too back then, with a central chin rest and much higher up on my shoulder, these days I use a left mounted chin rest and the violin is lower down towards my chest....
Maybe I'll post a new photo

And yes it is an all 'smooth/nice way to go up and down the violin'

I am sure that the reason why he took height off your shoulder rest is exactly this, to help you give your left hand 'more responsibility' (amongst other important reasons which would take me off topic....), this was a very good move on his part, it will help your technique a huge amount in the long run

LOL here's hoping!

He and some of his alumni are putting a concert on in Gib in November and he's giving my family free tickets!!! I can't wait to hear him play in concert....

that's great!

wish I could come....

LOL well we have a spare bed, if you fancy a holiday

Next lesson today...oh my it was tough...

I'm still holding tension in my arm. Naughty.

New exercises:
Legato 4 notes per bow on 1 finger 4 octave scales, paying particular attention to string crossing and preparing to cross

legato, with tiny bows...shifting back and forth on one finger GAGA BCBC DEDE (yes, G to A string and back on shift) etc all the way up to 4 octaves, pausing between each pair to think about position, fingers bow etc with audible shifts both ways and moving reasonably fast. Then same with separate really quick bows and slight pause between each pair, not hearing the shifts.

These of course are to be done on all fingers....

He tested me by asking me to do really fast shifts on 2 fingers..GABC (0121) DEFG (2-121) ABCD(2-121) all the way up - it's not easy! He wants me to practice the others and not this one, and I think he's going to see how much this one improves because of the others....

I'm tired now! Next lesson Friday....so not much practice time!

Well, but you will try all you can to improve a lot until friday and I believe you will enjoy it.

OK, interesting day! Still holding tension in my arm but I feel it now so can do something about it...

He wants me to learn Moto Perpetuo (Pagannini) doing these exercises...notes in pairs and gradually work through it. He wants me to play in a concert in a 400 seater concert hall in Feb/March time. 4 complete pages of semi quavers....but I know why he chose that for me, because there are no long notes if I get the shakes!! He hasn't said that but I'm sure I'm right!

Am I allowed to panic just a little bit?

Exercises this week: more on preparing for the next note/string changes.

GA BC DE (01 21 2-1) etc across the strings, but on each pause to have the next finger down ready and to think about the string changes before I do them. Plus all the others, of course.

Oh and then he arranged piano lessons for me, with his russian friend (she's really lovely) and she wants to learn english. So I teach her english in the lesson and she teaches me piano, no money changing hands!! mm better get on practicing that too!!

All sounds very good Dawn !

How exciting and wonderful

Errrm having listened to menuin on you tube I'm not so sure!!! Feeling a bit terrified and out of my depth. I know my teacher is awesome, but really???

Yes really You can have a teeny weeny bit of a panic and then banish it because WE KNOW YOU CAN DO IT and you will be utterly and totally fabulous.

I'll make a banner to cheer you on and will be completely thrilled for you when you perform as a concert violinist. We'll be with you every step of the way

But, but, but I never wanted to be a concert violinist, I'm an orchestral player

But even orchestral players have to perform dazzling solos for auditions

LOL and that's why I didn't do it 25 years ago

This is all so amazing and piano lessons too You'll soon overtake me on that, piano partner

LOL I doubt it....I have made it clear that it's my 4th instrument, and with band camp and a concert to sing in at the end of oct that is not going to change for a while....and as for the violin, that now needs 2 hours a day I think

But after all it seems to me, that this 2 hours are extremly well spend. Have fun.

LOL yes, probably....

Well I had my lesson yesterday...started the Moto perpetuo. So this week (even though I will not be able to practice virtually at all) I need to do:

2 finger scales as the 1-2 ones above only on 2-3 and 3-4. Now that is going to be interesting!! Of course all the others too....

The MP: first page 1 note at a time. Prepare for next note (left finger immediately) pause and chk RH and LH pos. Next note etc

2 notes legato at a time
2 notes separate and fast at a time
4 notes separate and fast at a time
each time checking RH and LH at each pause.

I am at band Mon/Tues here in Gib before we fly. I'm going to take it with me and see if I can find a cupboard to practice in at lunchtime!! I'm also going to put the piece on my kindle, take it to the UK and play air violin on the journey. Might get a few funny looks but should help me learn it!!

It's going to feel very strange not playing for a full week....