I'm toying with the idea of spending about ?500 - ?600 on a better flute and I'm hoping you good people can help me decide whether it's worth it!

I'm in my 50s, I don't have a teacher at the moment and I don't play in any kind of group, just at home for my own pleasure. After a looooong lay off I've been practicing regularly for the last 6 months and really enjoying it. I'm playing pieces around grade 5/6, though I've never taken any exams.

However, my old flute is not the best. It's a Gemeinhardt 2ESP that's seen better days. My problems with it are partly tuning of certain notes (middle c and c# especially, and the whole top octave apart from top c, which I can't persuade it to produce - though that could be me). I also think the tone could be better, but it's obviously difficult to know how much of that is me and how much the flute.

I'm looking at a couple of models with silver lip plate and riser, though I haven't tried any out yet.

What advantages might a such a flute bring me?

Hello JimD,

well it is difficult to answer your question without having heard you play. But what about the idea to go to a flute shop and just try some flutes out? I think that would easily answer your question. And there is no need to buy a flute that time.
When I restarted playing the flute, mine was nearly 30 years old, had never had a service and was in a really bad shape. All of that brought me to buy a new flute. I think I would have never been able to come this far with my old flute (even though I tried it out a few weeks ago and was astonished about the result).

Concerning to you, I would propose to first try some other flutes and if you deciede to buy a new one, find someone to come with you.

And if you buy a new flute, I would think about open holes and a b foot.

Depending on the age of your current flute, it might be an enrichment to buy a new one, because within the past 20 years a lot of things have changed in flute making.

I'd be tempted to get your existing flute looked at by a repairer first - if it's in perfect working order it is usually easier to play.

BUT your major issues do sound like they wouldn't necessarily be solved by a new flute - c and c# tuning is interesting on all flutes - have a play with bending the note using just your embouchure/ jaw position and you'll see how much you can "play" with them - they are sharp on most instruments.

As for the top octave - are you tight/tense when you're going for the top octave? If so, it will go sharp, regardless of the flute's intrinsic tuning. Top C is a git - needs masses of support, although my teacher said my old Buffet was harder than many to get it. I'd work on opening out the top octave, making the other notes really sing before worrying too much about top C (unlikely to turn up Grade 5/6 pieces!).

I went for C foot and closed holes - although I might consider B foot in the future it's only really an issue for some flute choir pieces, and it's usually possible to avoid those parts.

If you've got a shop handy, it might be worth going in and trying - if you enjoy playing more, then it can be worth it. That said, I'd be tempted to give it more than 6 months' practice before upgrading as your embouchure and tastes tend to change.

I suggest you find a way to try various flutes - your playing is at a standard where you can try out instruments properly. Either you will find you really enjoy playing a different flute and feel it will add to your playing enjoyment or you won't notice much difference in which case there is no point spending money. This is my 'green with envy' test for instrument upgrades.

Why not ask a flute teacher for a consultation lesson, for advice on you and your flute.

Some great-sounding advice there, thanks.

I have a slight problem with trying out flutes, as the only shop close to me is Windows in Newcastle, and they only seem to do Yamaha and Trevor James. The first Yamaha with a solid lip plate and riser is out of my budget at over ?800. Trevor James - I'm not sure about the models (more research needed!)

I was looking (on JustFlutes) at a Pearl PF525 or (stepping just outside my budget) Azumi AZ1000. Unfortunately I'm going to have to travel a considerable distance to try those out. I have thought of just trying the Yamaha or TJ to see what they're like, but I would feel guilty mucking the shop about when I had no intention of buying. Probably daft, but that's me.

Re the C and C# I know they're a problem on all flutes, but these are further out (un-lippable, by me anyway) than a cheap starter flute that I got before it (and still have). Same goes for the top octave (Google tells me the top octave on Gemeinhardts is a known problem??). The flute has been regulated since I restarted playing it - bottom C comes out OK so I guess that means it isn't leaking anywhere.

Maybe randomsabreur is right - I should give it a bit longer for my embouchure to settle before deciding (I don't want to miss the golden opportunity of using Christmas as an excuse, though ).



Thanks, andante - that's probably the best thing for me to do.

The flute scale (ie where the holes are drilled, which affects tuning) was vastly improved in the 1990s or thereabouts. If your flute is older than that you would see a difference when comparing it with any more recent flute, and that alone is a good reason for an upgrade in my opinion.

It would be worth making a trip to try the Azumi and Pearl, and you could compare them with the TJ Cantabile, which is the model with the silver head. The material the headjoint is made of is only part of the equation, as there are a number of very good flutes with plated heads on the market.

I would also suggest that you try the Yamaha 311 alongside the others as there are often second hand models available which would come into your budget.

Thanks again, Andante. My Gemeinhardt is from the 80s!

Just so's you know, andante and I aren't the same person.

Hi Jim,

If you are in the Washington that I think you are, I'd suggest taking your flute to either George Gladstone in Darlington or Arthur Haswell in Hexham and getting one of them to look at it. Either person will give you an honest opinion on whether a service would sort it out or whether you need a new one. They won't push you into buying a new instrument if it isn't needed. For either place, it's best to ring before you go to make sure they are there. George Gladstone is a woodwind and brass specialist who stocks a decent selection of beginner and upgrade flutes (there's a lot more in the shop than on the website). Arthur Haswell is one of the British Flute Society repairers and does most of the maintainance etc for the professional players in the region. He is excellent at flute repairs/maintenance but doesn't have an actual shop (which is why it's really important to ring him first).

I'd suggest avoiding the large shop in a certain local city and out of town shopping centre. Their woodwind person can sound very knowledgable but doesn't really know what he's doing (although he thinks he does) and he fiddles with the instruments in a way which makes them less reliable. He will also push you into a sale - often to a more expensive instrument with gadgets (e.g. extra vent holes) that aren't needed. I took my old flute there once when I needed an urgent repair and ended up having to take it to Arthur Haswell to get the shops repair undone and the instrument repaired properly. I know a lot of other people who have had similar experiences with the shop.

If you aren't in the Washington I'm thinking of then please ignore the above.

Oops, sorry!



Hi Flossie. Yes I am in the Washington you're thinking of, and I will definitely be following up those suggestions. Thanks!

You don't need to go to London to try flutes, there's always Woodwind Exchange in Bradford. They stock a much larger range than the normal music shops. I do appreciate it's not on your doorstep either though.

Sadly that's easier said than done in this area. There are very few flute teachers in the area and most will not take anyone below diploma standard. A lot of the 'flute' teachers who do take students below this level are in fact clarinet or sax teachers who do flute on the side up to around grade 5, but who haven't had specialist flute teaching themselves...

That's a pity; I wasn't aware, as I haven't started looking yet. When I first started playing I had lessons from a teacher in the Newcastle area (it was so long ago I can't remember exactly where she was! Probably around Shiremoor) but I have no idea if she's still teaching or if how to contact her now. She was a flute player initially who changed to bassoon so she could play in an orchestra.

Thanks for the info on the Woodwind Exchange, notmusimum. I wasn't aware of that place.

Actually, I've just been looking at Arthur Haswell's site, and he does both Azumi and Pearl flutes. Hexham's a lot closer than Bradford, so I'll be taking a trip over there!

Wondering how they get students at that level if nobody is teaching.....
What a shame that the teachers there are don't feel interested or able enough to teach from beginners up.

The univeristies... There are two fairly elite university music departments in the area, plus Sunderland Uni is decent for Performing Arts. Most of the university students who play flute (both music students and others) are at least diploma standard on entry. Demand for flute lessons is greater than the supply, so teachers can pick and choose - and the going rate for flute lesson is a lot higher than for most other instruments (?30-40 per hour compared to ?20-25 for other woodwind, violin and piano).

You may recall that nicki_flute had problems finding a teacher in the area and she is very good.

You may also find a different flute feels better to you even without it being an upgrade in terms of specifications. I am a really lapsed childhood flautist and several years back borrowed a friend's gemeinhardt for a bit (the model you have sounds familiar) when I thought of getting myself a flute again. What I bought was a 2nd hand Trevor James basic model (10x) which didn't break the bank and felt, to me, much more enjoyable to play.

So, I have an appointment with Arthur Haswell to evaluate my Gemeinhardt and for me to try out a few flutes.

He doesn't have the Pearl 525, but says he has quite a few decent second hand ones that I might like (if so, erard may be proved right!).

He does have the Azumi I fancy, though.

Great. So you have an opportunity to sort out wether it's the flute or you. Hoping everthing works out as you expect.

Today's the day!

I'm a bit nervous. I'm taking some music to try out, as I can't memorise a thing and I don't want to just play random notes or scales.

Whatever you play, try to make sure your concentration is on the sound you are producing rather than on playing the correct notes. I have found that a simple repeated slow phrase works well, and also something which moves between octaves so that you can get an idea how flexible the headjoint is.

I hope you enjoy the experience. Good luck!

As per andante_in_c beats me to it!

Slow, slurred octaves for me or the opening phrase of the Poulenc Cantilena or even the Faure Sicilienne.

Sigh. I'd love a new flute. Sigh.

Let us know how you get on.

Envy-Bag x

Well, I've been. Arthur was very nice and easy going, and made me and my wife feel at home.

I tried out the Azumi 1000 (new), Yahama 211 (second hand) and a Jupiter something or other (also second hand).

The Azumi was OK, very nice in the middle octave, but I found the top octave a bit difficult (though the F# was still easier than the Gemeinhardt).

The Jupiter I just didn't get on with at all - not sure why. Didn't like the sound as much as the other 2 and found it more difficult to get the tone out of it.

The Yahama I liked from the first note I played - I produced the tone easily all the way from top to bottom, and the tone was good. So I bought it! And at ?275 I don't feel as if I've been over-indulgent with myself by buying a flute that played better than I could.

Thanks once again for the help and support.

Yamaha 211's are excellent flutes, glad you are pleased with your new purchase

I am. I can play C and C# in tune now!

I forgot to mention that Arthur checked out my Gemeinhardt and said it was in decent mechanical condition and adjustment, and better than he was expecting for the age and type of flute.

However, the only way to improve it would have been a repad which would have been very expensive (as it would also need new springs).

He didn't suggest that as a course of action, which I took to mean it was just not worth it given the (lack of) quality and age of the flute. I would have been extremely reluctant to spend a lot of money on that flute anyway.

Out of interest, what do you intend doing with your old flute? I have a similar situation, I have a very old and badly treated flute which was bought in a sell-off of old music service instruments, so as you can imagine it had had several not-so-careful previous owners. When I was in the army band I played their flute, so neglected flute became even more neglected. I took it in to get it looked over and they said forget it, if you spend money on it you will achieve nothing worthwhile. I intend one day to replace it with the Jupiter 511 (happens to suit me) but I'm not sure what to do with the old one as it has no value to anyone. I couldn't give it to a beginner they'd only learn bad things on it, I don't really want to sell it online as some poor kid could end up with it from a parent who reckons they got a bargain, no matter how much you say this flute needs serious fixing up. I suppose the only real use for it is for a student flute-repairer who could take it apart and put it back together in a no-risk situation, but are there any such people about?

At the moment it more or less meets the description of being a flute rather than not a flute, but even a ?100 Chinese flute from the muzak shop is vastly superior to this one. Only otehr thing I can think of is donate it to a school as a "look, this is a flute" demo instrument rather than something for anyone to learn on. Any other ideas?

I just thought I'd keep it as a spare, for example to play while the new flute is getting serviced etc. It still plays reasonably OK.

Congratulations to your new flute. Have a lot of fun with it.

Enjoy your new flute! Older (Japanese) 211s are in particular very good : I know of at least two flautists who have done grade 8 on such instruments

Thanks.

The flute is about 8 or 9 years old (my only sourcefor this is the seller, as there doesn't seem to be any way of looking it up via the serial number), so that would put it before the deterioration in Yamaha's quality control is alleged to have occured.

The only writing on it apart from the serial number is the model (211S) and 'Established in Japan in 1887' (I may have that date wrong, as I'm going from memory now). The head joint just has the Yamaha logo on it and nothing else.

Anyway, it seems in excellent condition to me.

Glad you found a flute that suits you!

(Visual) artists sometimes like musical instruments, and head joints can be useful for physics demos. I wonder if you could unite a tenor recorder body with a flute headjoint?