I was going to post this in another thread (the marks breakdown one which mentions pupils competing) but then I realised it might hijack it so I thought I'd make a new one. I'm not saying that this view is specific to DavidMusic but just wondering why this view seems to exist generally.

QUOTE (DavidMusic @ Jan 27 2005, 06:54 AM)

Do you give the comment sheets to your pupils? I rarely have in the past, as I find that they then start competing with each other, which I hate, but I always read the comments myself.

About pupils competing: why is it seen as perfectly acceptable (okay, not perfectly acceptable but someone on grade 5 is encouraged to think that they are better than someone on grade 4) that pupils can feel superior/like they are winning a competition because they are at a higher grade but not that pupils can get glory for getting a higher mark than someone else? Perhaps this social prejudice contributes to the grade rushing phenomenon we see: if someone keeps saying 'I've got grade 8' (optionally append 'and I'm only 13' or 'and it only took me three years to get there') that's not considered 'showing off' as much as someone who keeps saying 'I got 140' in my last exam' or 'I always get distinctions' which seems to offend so many people. They say 'oh I can never get distinctions stop showing off'; they don't say oh I can never get grade 8 (insert 'in so many years' if desired) stop showing off (they occassionaly are fooled into hero worship though!).

Is there a great misunderstanding of distinctions: is it the case that anyone could get a distinction if they waited long enough before taking the exam; and everyone can get to grade 8 if they play for long enough? Or is it just that the reality that one can't get a distinction arises at grade 1 and the reality that one can't get to grade 8 would only hit at a later stage (perhaps even covered up by giving up for another reason)? I'm not suggesting either, I don't know enough people who have played to say either way I'm just wondering: is there a limit on what certain people will ever be able to do or is it that anyone can get a distinction with enough work and/or anyone can get to grade 8 with enough work?

Generally, you should be able to get anywhere (or almost anywhere) if you work hard enough at it and believe that you can do it (unless you've got no hands and feet or something like that and want to be a professional piano player). I think anybody can get a Grade 8 distinction if they try hard enough and wait until they are ready, as long as they have enough will power... then again, it may just be the people with no will power that can't be bothered to reach Grade 8, thus then meaning that not everybody can reach Grade 8... if you get what I mean.

Besides, getting a distinction shouldn't be about showing off - it should be about proving to yourself that you're good enough to get a distinction. Sure, it's okay for them to be proud of getting a distinction, but if they just use it to boast, then it defeats the whole purpose. Anyway, lots of people get distinctions, especially if you count all the musicians over history (think of how many famous composers there were/are and how they would easily be able to get distinctions) so it's not really there to boast about, but for you yourself to sort of be proud of.

Yeah, I think competing with other people is pointless because we all have different strengths and weaknesses. Ok, it might give you some incentive, but you either get complacent if you you're the better, or demoralised if you feel you're the worst. I think the incentive, that "I want to do really well in this exam for me, and try my best" is better than thinking "He or she got 130, at whatever grade so I should do the same"
I don't think everyone could get distinctions at grade 8, maybe lower down the grades yes, but by grade 8, I think there's a clear definition between a real good musician, and someone who's been taught to play their way through the grades.

well im odd, im not on high grades and i dont get high marks...ah well

we can both be odd together. (those numbers are going to haunt me forever... 105)

u think 105 is bad, feel sorry for me......the number 100 will really haunt me for the rest of my life

QUOTE=DavidMusic,Jan 27 2005, 06:54 AM Do you give the comment sheets to your pupils?
I rarely have in the past, as I find that they then start competing with each other, which I hate, but I always read the comments myself.[/QUOTE]


Yes! I always give the pupils their comments sheets - I also talk about the marks/comments and often go through it with the pupil. Does anyone else withold the comment sheets? I feel that it belongs to the pupil, but I also take a copy of it to keep for myself.

I'm shocked by the idea of not giving pupils their comments sheets from exams (see the quote in the first entry to this thread). How hurt they could be later in life, or part way through the graded process, if they found out that these were available, and they couldn't now refer to them to see their progress in particular areas of playing and skills.

May I encourage everyone to give the pupils these comments sheets - I certainly do!

I wasn't really intending to start a debate about whether comparing oneself to others is good or bad simply that it happens and that so many people can boast about getting a high grade and not be considered to be showing off; yet that anyone who gets a distinction (or is disappointed that they didn't) is accused of showing off and told to be nicer to people without distinctions. What about the people disappointed that they failed grade 8 when they took it after three years of playing? They don't get told off and told to shut up because other people have only got to grade 1 or 2 in that time and they're being ungrateful! That's the point I'm trying to make.

As for competiton I do think that a little bit of competition can be healthy for some people but it must be taken in the right way and it's good to be competing with someone evenly matched otherwise it would just be demoralising.

Sorry I may have caused some confusion by posting the mark sheets part of the comment into this thread (I did it for context) but the main debate about that is here.

QUOTE (elmo @ Jan 29 2005, 08:37 PM)

I don't think everyone could get distinctions at grade 8, maybe lower down the grades yes, but by grade 8, I think there's a clear definition between a real good musician, and someone who's been taught to play their way through the grades.

hmmmm yeah I think there are some people who really would never get G8 with distinction... I think there are some people who probably could not get a lower grade with distinction... especially at the higher grades, but even at the lower ones, there is a lot to do with expression - not just playing the notes right... and some people just don't have that capability, the same way some don't have the ability to easily pick up languages or do a certain sport... willpower and hard work can make your learn a language eventually, or get a lot better at a sport, or get better grades in your music exams... but we are all different and there are some people for whom distinction in a music exam is just never going to happen.

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QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Jan 29 2005, 11:02 PM)

hmmmm yeah I think there are some people who really would never get G8 with distinction... I think there are some people who probably could not get a lower grade with distinction...

That's interesting Sarah do you believe that some people could never get grade 8 pass with enough work or that it's just Distinctions at any level that some people can't get?

I think Rhapsodin makes some good points, I think that in reality people must surely do exams to compare themselves with others, not just as a marker of their own progress; otherwise we wouldn't need a standardised system for everyone and people wouldn't be so keen to tell others their results. I just notice that one of the first things that many people seem to want to do when they come on the board is talk about their last exam or what grade they're on particularly younger people (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's quite understandable) but for some people it's taken to be showing off and for some people it's quite okay and they're hailed as a genius! I think one only needs to look at signatures to see how important people see their exam results in showing how good they are to others.

I personally don't mind people showing off in fact I think that it's good that they feel good about their real achievements. The only time I don't like showing off is when the person that's doing it isn't actually good at what they're showing off at which is usually the case with these grade 8 in a year by learning 3 pieces wonders! I always think it's sad when I see the people that have worked harder and are still at lower grades fall over themselves congratulating and envying the person who has done it even though they themselves are probably better players.

Speaking as someone who has never done a practical music exam, but is about to attempt one, I can only say my change of heart wasn't motivated by needing to compete against others but by a recently realised need to have a more objective indication of how I'm progressing. Obviously, the exam system is based on comparison, ie from a point where you can't play, all the way up to concert pianist standard or whatever. (This is no different from anything else in life, we're all progressing somewhere, but it helps to have a path marked out with staging posts.) Personally, I feel much more motivated now I have a more immediate goal, ie to pass the exam, along the way of the long term goal, ie wanting to play as well as I possibly can.

I agree with the point about not everyone's being able to achieve grade 8 or distinctions etc just by virtue of working long & hard at it, again this is no different from anything else in life. Some people would never get a 1st in maths or physics etc, however hard they tried, nor play sport at national level, for example.

Take painting for instance (this is my home territory). I know I'm a good portrait painter, so I don't need to take an exam to prove it, nor to measure it, because I have the confidence and internal authority to judge for myself, whereas in music (new territory) I don't have that confidence and I don't know any musicians personally except my teacher - and I badly need to have more confidence!

On the boasting issue, I suppose if I did well I would also want everyone to know about it , but I honestly don't feel the need to be better than anyone else. This could be an age related thing, because many young musicians may have ambitions to become professional musicians, whereas many late starters (and I'm among the latest!) know that ambition to be unrealistic, so it removes a lot of the external competitive element. It doesn't quell that internal, ie for myself, competitive instinct though!

Jen

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QUOTE

Some keyboard harmony? General musical knowledge?

Yes - I'd go for both those.

Even at grade one, it's not unreasonable for pupils to need to know a few things about the pieces they are playing - for example they are sometimes really surprised to realise a piece they are playing is 400 years old ...

Maggie

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AP

QUOTE

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Jan 29 2005, 11:02 PM) hmmmm yeah I think there are some people who really would never get G8 with distinction... I think there are some people who probably could not get a lower grade with distinction... That's interesting Sarah do you believe that some people could never get grade 8 pass with enough work or that it's just Distinctions at any level that some people can't get?

Yep... realistically there are some people who just cannot play at that level for whatever reason. I'm pretty sure for instance, that I'd be hard pressed to ever get Grade 8 on the piano, let alone with distinction... I just find it really hard, have no natural inclination for that instrument. And there are some people who have no musical talent, or only a little - just as there are some who are rubbish at maths, or sport... no amount of work could make me an Olympic athlete - it's the way I'm made. I could possibly become an accountant, but I'd find it very hard, and I'd never be a great one. It's the same with music - there are some people who given the best training, with the best will in the world and lots of enthusiasm, just don't have the raw ability. Not because they are stupid or uncommitted.. just because they don't have certain necessary talents; just as I don't have the talent to run 100m in less than... well, about 10 minutes probably, the way I feel today...! It takes a degree of both talent and work to get good, and the two hand in hand are what makes people into great musicians. To use another example, I have a certain amount of artistic talent, but although I can draw OK, I'm rubbish at painting... and if I actually worked hard I would be able to draw better, and could learn to paint I expect... naturally, I can draw reasonably well. But my friend Linny who studies art at uni practises all the time, and not only can she draw better than me, but she can do it from a subject who's squirming around all over the place, and in half the time.

Agree totally with Jen W -

QUOTE

this is no different from anything else in life.  Some people would never get a 1st in maths or physics etc, however hard they tried, nor play sport at national level, for example.

Rhaps:

QUOTE

They do provide amusement and sometimes some scope for mild tongue-in-cheek mischief.

Causing mischief? You? Surely not...

As regards boasting... I guess that a certain amount of jubilation is natural when one does well, and I think anyone who achieves good marks, or even passes and exam when they weren't sure they would, deserves praise... a pass at grade 1 may be as big an achievement for person A as a distinction at grade 8 is for person B. I guess it's just a matter of keeping it in proportion and not going ON AND ON about it like some people do, or posting self-congratulatory posts... me, I was so chuffed with my last exam mark... but now that's behind me and I have things to start working towards, so although I'm still pleased about it, I'm not going to rest on my laurels, and it's been gone for a while from my sig. I guess it is natural, especially among younger ones, or those who have taken few exams before, to go a little OTT, and others have to make allowances... I wouldn't consider anyone was boasting the 1st time they said WOOHOO GUES WHAT I GOT... regardless of grade or mark! but when they have started their 6th thread about it, or commented for the 17th time that they got such and such a grade and it only took them X amount of time - then it becomes boasting, IMO!

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Jan 30 2005, 12:08 PM)

As regards boasting...  but when they have ... commented for the 17th time that they got such and such a grade and it only took them X amount of time - then it becomes boasting, IMO!

OK I'll change my signature then .

Cheers

Katyjay

awww nawwww... I don't think having it in your sig is boasting!

I think that how it's said has a lot to do with how it seems like showing off, I think that yours is quite discrete.

It's interesting that you say that some people just can't make it to either a distinction or grade 8, it's something I think too but everyone around here in the past seems to have said that everyone can do it if they try hard enough (although this may be due to the tendancy of people to agree with what's on the existing thread or not post; a lack of argumentative people I feel!).

I really wasn't trying to accuse everyone who says what they've got in an exam here of showing off; as I said before I think that it's good that people can tell everyone when have achieved something. I just am wondering why it's more acceptable to show off about a high grade than a high mark. All measurements of progress are relative though and any indication of how one is progressing is relative to how everyone else is: grade 1 in 10 years could be considered amazing or a bit slow depending simply how long everyone else takes to get to grade 1.

Surely anyone that says they've got to a really high grade in a short time (or is going to take one soon) is being pre-emtively arrogant that they're better than everyone else and they don't need to do all the easy stuff. I know a few people with grade 8 and their difference in skill is immense: one is an amazing pianist and one is, quite frankly, not even as good as I am (maybe I'm being arrogant now!). I don't believe that there's any great skill in getting to grade 8 quickly and scraping a pass; a lot less skill in fact than is needed to get a distinction at grade 5, yet one seems to get a lot more credit than the other.

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And some improvisation - definitely. Especially at the higher grades. What kind of well-rounded musician are you if you can't play a note without the music in front of you?

Violinia

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Jan 30 2005, 02:24 PM)

I'm a shy, retiring sort of person and that isn't boasting.  But did I tell you I got the Nobel Prize in Counterpoint, got a double distinction with three bars for good conduct too (and some vouchers for free KFC).   So there, myyaaaah!   Â

lol Rhaps... I was shortlisted and received a shirt saying "I wrote some Counterpoint and all I got was this lousy T-shirt".

I think that sometimes it's nice to see how people have done in their recent exams so that we can be proud of them and they can celebrate. But I agree people shouldn't go on about it... and for this reason I'm going to take a bit off my signature now.

The main reason I had it on my signature in the first place was because in "real life" I come across as extremely stupid and immature and people don't think I know anything about anything. Being 5 foot 2 with a squeaky voice and chubby cheeks doesn't exactly help. I generally find it very difficult to get respect when I'm talking about musical issues unless people know that I am of a vaguely decent standard, so I generally make sure that people know about it if I'm going to be talking about music with them. (Also, if I don't tell them, and they find out, I never hear the end of it). So this is a personal thing to do with confidence and first impressions - people just don't take me seriously enough without my qualifications on bits of paper. I suppose I didn't realise that this wouldn't be the case in a forum.

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QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Jan 30 2005, 02:13 PM)

Surely anyone that says they've got to a really high grade in a short time (or is going to take one soon) is being pre-emtively arrogant that they're better than everyone else and they don't need to do all the easy stuff.

Ok, I'll take on that one.

Two years ago (plus a fortnight now) I had my first singing lesson EVER. Less than a year after starting, I got a distinction in my ABRSM grade 5. Fifteen months after starting, I took my ABRSM grade 8, which I also passed with distinction, and two years after starting lessons I missed a distinction by 5 marks in my ATCL.

I'm thrilled to bits that I managed these. I do feel very temped to show off and shout from the rooftops about them - largely because they are WAY beyond what I imagined I could ever manage, and the credit for that goes as much to an absolutely brilliant teacher who challenged me to go further and further as it does to my own abilities.

Does that make me arrogant? Or should I use it as a way of demonstrating that it's not too late at thirty-odd, in the middle of another career entirely, to start taking music seriously?

Cheers

Katyjay

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QUOTE

(AP)It's interesting that you say that some people just can't make it to either a distinction or grade 8, it's something I think too but everyone around here in the past seems to have said that everyone can do it if they try hard enough

It's silly really... if we said anyone could become an Olympic champion if they would "only try hard enough", people would look at us as if we were nuts. I think that if all children were given access to as much suitable musical training as they needed from an early age, we'd see a lot more grade 8 with distinctions (and lower grades and not quite so great marks probably from those kids who without the trainin would not have got anywhere at all) but I don't think you can say "if people had the access to the right training and worked hard enough everyone'd get distinctions" because there's plenty of people who did start music at an early age, and did work hard, and did have good teachers, and still don't make it to grade 8 with distinction.

Sure there's "nurture" involved, but there's "nature" too... someone like me who has the coordination of a drunk dingo is not going to be as good at the piano as someone who is naturally talented and doesn't have a problem reading two lines of music at once (me, I have enough trouble with ONE...)... and perfect pitch won't make you a great singer if the tone quality of your voice is like nails down a blackboard... with hard work, things can improve, and improve tremendously... but hard work isn't going to beat hard work + talent!

QUOTE

(katyjay)Does that make me arrogant?  Or should I use it as a way of demonstrating that it's not too late at thirty-odd, in the middle of another career entirely, to start taking music seriously?

For the record, I don't think you have ever come across as arrogant. I think it depends largely on how people present their achievements... There's an enormous difference between "Wow, I can't believe it I've surpassed all my expectations and I AM SO EXCITED!" and the desire to encourage others (which is my impression of you), and people who either say or imply "I'm SO clever and I am SO talented and I've just come here to tell you that before I buzz off to my immensely glamourous career..." Even those from that camp who try and appear modest by saying "I just don't believe it" eventually give the lie to their words by posting time and time again, posting quotes from the comment sheets, and plugging for compliments every five minutes.

QUOTE

(Rhaps) QUOTE Causing mischief? You? Surely not...  :rolleyes:  ;) Naturally not. Thank you for making that clear to everyone. (hug). It's always someone else.

My pleasure to defend the innocent. Ahem.

Cheeble, you don't come across at all like that on the board, be assured! It surprises me immensely to know you come across like that in real life though I take your word for it. And I've never thought of your sig. as showing off, either.

I've met Cheeble outside of the forums and she's lovely! It was at a music course in half term, and I was nervous and knew no one..........and she said hey and looked after me. (cue violins).

seriously though, cheeble's great and I think it's a musician thing, in orchestras that have a competitive audition or some expected standard that everyone has reached, there is (or at least should be) no reason to boost about music exams because to be in the orchestra you already have a good level of achievement on your instrument.

I think that grades are useful in knowing what sort of standard you are, and the sub catergories of pass, merit and distinction help you to know how well you play to that standard.

QUOTE

and perfect pitch won't make you a great singer if the tone quality of your voice is like nails down a blackboard... with hard work, things can improve, and improve tremendously... but hard work isn't going to beat hard work + talent!

one of my friends from school has perfect pitch, but unlike most of the ppl I know with perfect pitch, he only plays piano and fails the aural tests of exams - everytime! Which goes to show that sometimes even if you have a god given talent or a genetic advantge, if you dont put the work in you wont get the results.

QUOTE

I think that grades are useful in knowing what sort of standard you are, and the sub catergories of pass, merit and distinction help you to know how well you play to that standard.

*nod* note *useful*... a means to an end! unlike some people treat them as the end in and of itself....

QUOTE

one of my friends from school has perfect pitch, but unlike most of the ppl I know with perfect pitch, he only plays piano and fails the aural tests of exams - everytime! Which goes to show that sometimes even if you have a god given talent or a genetic advantge, if you dont put the work in you wont get the results.

lol... goes to show indeed!

Sometimes people's lists of qualifications make me think wow, they're good and other times they make me think that they're just showing off and aren't actually very good. When I saw Cheeble's I didn't take them to be showing off at all, I actually just thought she was really intelligent and tallented in music; perhaps it's to do with the tone of the posts and the intelligence that comes through in that making it seem like the qualifications are there for information and to help people realise who they are talking to (not in a 'who do you think that you're talking to' kind of way!).

To Katjay, no I don't think that you're guilty of doing what I'm saying for several reasons: 1) You don't mention it at every possible opportunity and say how great you are: I've never heard you say such things as 'I don't sing those pieces they're too easy for me; 2) You are intelligent and the knowledge that comes across in your posts matches that I would expect from someone with those qualifications; 3) singers often move more quickly though the grades and skip more often than usual so it's less of saying 'I'm better than everyone else beause I can go faster' (not of course that I'm intending to put down your achivements by saying that); 4) You've always got very good marks and (I presume) haven't done so by just working at the exam requirements and nothing else with no interest in music making as a whole; 5) even if you did think that you're much better than average at singing it appears to be true and you're allowed to think that if you are!

I'm thinking here about people that get to grade 8 (or even grade 5 straight away, even grade 2...) with little experience and technique; pass it simply by learning 3 pieces and the requirements and nothing else and scrape a pass (or sometimes they get a distinction only by being told exactly what to do by their teacher and working for a long time on only 3 pieces). If people are doing this they're arrogantly saying they're better than everyone else and in reality they're not... Even if people take, say 5, years to get to grade 8 skipping a few on the way surely if they fail they've failed because they've overestimated how good they are and that they can skip grades (which in my opinion should only be done in exceptional circumstances by exceptional people). Imagine if the school education system was like this: if people took A-levels when they wanted lots of people would do them really young and get Cs or whatever when they would have been getting As if they did them at the right time; what would that make Cambridge's admissions policy like C if taken under 10, B if under 15 otherwise an A! Madness the people that got As at the later date would still be better at the time of entry.

QUOTE (katyjay @ Jan 30 2005, 03:28 PM)

Two years ago (plus a fortnight now) I had my first singing lesson EVER.  Less than a year after starting, I got a distinction in my ABRSM grade 5.  Fifteen months after starting, I took my ABRSM grade 8, which I also passed with distinction, and two years after starting lessons I missed a distinction by 5 marks in my ATCL.

Katyjay - I must say I really enjoy reading about achievements like that & others - it is inspirational, not necessarily in the way of wanting to do the same (if you heard my voice, you'd know what I mean !) but of wanting to get out there & do something - whatever that something may be.

Jen

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Jan 30 2005, 09:09 AM)

QUOTE I think that grades are useful in knowing what sort of standard you are, and the sub catergories of pass, merit and distinction help you to know how well you play to that standard. *nod* note *useful*... a means to an end! unlike some people treat them as the end in and of itself....

yes, exams shouldn't be an end in itself, it should be more like a guage-o-meter of how you are doing, and even if you get worse marks then you thought, that should, i repeat, should make you motivated to be better.
Of course...there are some people who will never get, say, distinction in Grade 8 , for example, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're bad...

*goes off and gets high on coffee*

I hate it when ppl show off

i agree with the thread starter.

High grades dont mean that u are the best. I know of some ppl who just take till grade 8, and then ignore the rest. THey stop their instrument. why? coz they have the grade 8 cert.

whereas for high marks, yes it is an indication that you are good and that you practise really well too

But what about love and dedication for music that shows u are good too?

QUOTE (missfabflute @ Jan 30 2005, 05:37 PM)

But what about love and dedication for music that shows u are good too?

I agree totally here. There are people on this board (without mentioning names) that don't have X Grade 8s or whatever, and don't get distinctions, but I consider them fantastic musicians because they are obviously committed to their music and they've bothered to do the research behind it so that they can help other people.

katyjay - you are NOT boasting - I love to hear about your achievements, and part of that is because you are always encouraging to other people.

(and cheers everybody! *blush*)

Thanks everyone for your kind words, I wasn't fishing for compliments (honest! ).

I think I was trying to test AnotherPianist's assumptions by demonstrating that taking an exam not long after starting studying is not necessarily inappropriate. And in fairness, I'm not the best counterexample because while I've only had two years of formal lessons, I can't remember an age at which I couldn't sing, and can barely recall learning to read music - so I've been using my instrument for thirty-odd years. I don't play any other instrument, and admire people who do.

There are some truly impressive people here - whether it's because of their achievements on a variety of instruments, or their insightful way of writing, or their brilliant creativity and fantastic sense of humour (e.g. the "Composing" thread, some of the truly sidesplitting puns on the HW thread). It's one of the things that makes the AB forums so addictive.

But I think we are coming to the point of the matter (at last ). Exams are a way of charting your progress in learning an instrument, but making music encompasses so much more than that. And one of the important things to bear in mind is that it's a form of communication, and must therefore by definition be a social activity. And we need people to participate if a social activity is going to work. So music needs to be inclusive, not exclusive. And I think that this is why the off-putting behaviour we've seen here has been inappropriate. But rather than give bad attitudes the publicity of reaction, we should rise above that and demonstrate what really matters about music.

That's why I believe it's important to emphasise that music doesn't stop when school does, to celebrate the fact that there are amateur choirs, orchestras and music clubs around, to encourage people to see a future in music even if one is never going to be professional and, above all, to get folks to join in.

That's why I post. That's why I set up the concert. The fact that I get to inflict a song on a captive audience is, of course, a bonus for me.

And, quite frankly, if we oldies don't encourage the younger posters, then music really will die out. And no-one could want that!

Cheers

Katyjay

Hello everyone,

Well I've popped in here just quickly to see what's going on. Jeremy Clarkson is currently nursing David, courtesy of Top Gear (the best medicine as far as my petrol-head husband is concerned). In no particular order.....

I've never felt that anyone's been showing off here.

I find it very useful to read the levels that people are at from their siggie lines, as this helps me to build my mental picture of them, and I'm genuinely pleased for other's achievements.

The only downside for me is that I have a tendency to put myself down in comparison to others because I have very high expectations of myself.

I can't wait to hear KatyJay sing at the concert!

Cheebs, there's NO way you are anything other than very intelligent, and that comes across in spades in your postings.

I wanted to work through the grades to prove to myself that I can sing - it has nothing to do with others. In fact, coming from a childhood where showing off was actively frowned upon I now have to make a conscious effort to tell others about any achievements I make. I'm getting better at it, but it still makes me cringe!

There, just some random thoughts. Hopefully Rhapsodin will find something in what I've said to give me a "Purleeeze" - I've missed his "Purleeezes"!

It's nice to be back here, albeit just for a short while. Long live Jeremy Clarkson.



Amber
x

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AMBER!

(it's good to see you! can you tell???)

and yes that is the reason I intended to work through the grades, or at least do a few of them - but now we'll see what my flute teacher has to say about that when I finally get a lesson! (plus it forces you to learn scales etc.)

hope Rhaps's hypnotism works lol though I'd be a bit scared meself...

and Cheeble honey, you ROCK!

and katyjay - you're a star to have done all the encouraging etc you have done on here and arranged the concert - just wish I could make it myself!

Amber!!!

So glad you managed to drop in! And long live Jeremy Clarkson indeed, if Top Gear makes your husband feel better

I hope that I've not given everyone the wrong idea here; I started this thread not make everyone feel like posting exam results is showing off (I've done it in the past...) but to question a social prejudice. That being that if someone is dissapointed that they don't get a distinction (in a lower grade, say) they are told to stop being silly and be grateful that they did well; but if someone scrapes a higher grade (or fails) after taking it in less time than normal (and perhaps have already taken a lower, but still high grade before and passed) they're not told to be grateful that they got anywhere near that far and that they are doing down everyone else's achievements by saying that they're bad for getting a low mark or failing grade X in so few years. I appreciate that failing is different from not getting a distinction but to some people the latter happening can be as disappointing as the former happening can be to others.

Please don't start removing results from signatures or not mentioning them because of this, that's not what the intention was.

P.S. it's lovely to see you back Amber, I hope things continue improving for you .

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Please don't start removing results from signatures or not mentioning them because of this, that's not what the intention was.

the main reason I dont have a signature at the end of my posts is that I don't know how to add it.................

Go to "My control" on the right of your screen and you will see "Edit Signature" Click it and then type whatever you want.

competition can be good - but sometimes it gets too much - playing in a brass band we do loads of competitions but there are rarely any arguments or boasting between bands and players, seats ( position or parts you play) though do have a way of making players compete - showing off is quite normal in the band room and if you want a better seat it is encouraged - wether this happpens in orchestras i don't know?
competition can be useful i think, but in some places it is unecesarry , especially when it becomes all to excessive.

in my opinion, i feel that to become a good musician, it is not enough to merely posses the skills tested during examinations. other musical skills such as playing by ear and improvisation are as equally important . so it does not necessarily mean that a person who has got a grade 8 is better than a person who has got only grade 5 in terms of musicianship, as he could have got to that level by merely book work

A quote from a signature not too far from here:

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Piano, Grade 5 - going to take it this May. Wish me luck. I expect to get 140 marks. Very bad in scales and sight-reading.

Now I know I said that showing off about marks rather than grades may be a good idea but preferably after you've got them . Sorry to single out one person on this: similar things seem to be cropping up a lot in signatures at the moment... I hope you don't regret saying that once you've taken the exam and are reporting your result; I suppose you can just tell us all that you got 140 anyway and we'll never know: if you do want 140 get working on those scales and that sightreading! How can you believe that you can so accurately predict your mark, will you be upset if you get 139 or 141?!

Its nice to see what people play and do and things in the signatures, but there isnt really that much need for marks in them, especially if you havent acctually got the marks or done the exam!

QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Jan 31 2005, 02:12 PM)

A quote from a signature not too far from here: QUOTE Piano, Grade 5 - going to take it this May. Wish me luck. I expect to get 140 marks. Very bad in scales and sight-reading. Now I know I said that showing off about marks rather than grades may be a good idea but preferably after you've got them . Sorry to single out one person on this: similar things seem to be cropping up a lot in signatures at the moment... I hope you don't regret saying that once you've taken the exam and are reporting your result; I suppose you can just tell us all that you got 140 anyway and we'll never know: if you do want 140 get working on those scales and that sightreading! How can you believe that you can so accurately predict your mark, will you be upset if you get 139 or 141?!

I thought that expectation was a joke, or at least ironic.

Whether they think you are showing off or not depends, of course. I never want to take the risk of damaging relations with friends because of showing off like that. I usually wait until they ask me, then I answer like there's nothing great about it, then they start praising me, "oh you're such a good pianist, nobody could pass gr 7 with a merit in an age so young", etc. That applies for older people, especially guests. But to my friends I don't say, I always get distinction. It's not a good thing, but if I say that I'm gr 8, for example they will still praise me because so few people at my age could get it. I didn't say anything about the distinction thing. In higher grades it's more difficult to get them, but people like to compare the distinction one got in gr 1 and in gr 8. So I guess it is a better idea not to say about your distinction unless they ask you. But whether you get distinction or not can be something that says you're a better pianist or not. Like, a person who got 140 is always better with then one who gets 100. That person who gets 100 might not have the ability to get 140. It's a matter of relationships, I think.

And about comment papers, well, I think that the students, the people who got them should get the priority of seeing them first. I won't wave around that sheet for competiting because I know other people will not like it. If the students are still very young then give it to their parents. They should know why they got that mark.

Still seems a little presumptuous no matter how it's said (in a lot of 'jokes' there's some hidden truth that people are trying to get through); still I'm not sure if it's any worse than someone saying I'm going to take grade 8 after only playing for one year (which clearly implies the an I expect to pass or they wouldn't be taking it)....

DGA: why should you be proud of the fact that you've got grade 7 and consider telling your friends that not to be showing off; but consider telling them that you've got a distinction showing off? Either both are showing off or both aren't.

In any showing off it's always worth remembering that it's quite possible to get people to ask if one wants them to so one never needs to blurt anything out anyway: I think that's called tactful showing off! It isn't frowned upon so much either because someone asked!

QUOTE (kenm @ Jan 31 2005, 02:45 PM)

QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Jan 31 2005, 02:12 PM) A quote from a signature not too far from here: QUOTE Piano, Grade 5 - going to take it this May. Wish me luck. I expect to get 140 marks. Very bad in scales and sight-reading. Now I know I said that showing off about marks rather than grades may be a good idea but preferably after you've got them . Sorry to single out one person on this: similar things seem to be cropping up a lot in signatures at the moment... I hope you don't regret saying that once you've taken the exam and are reporting your result; I suppose you can just tell us all that you got 140 anyway and we'll never know: if you do want 140 get working on those scales and that sightreading! How can you believe that you can so accurately predict your mark, will you be upset if you get 139 or 141?! I thought that expectation was a joke, or at least ironic.

So did I. It did make me blink when I saw it at first but I realised afterwards that maybe it wasn't an actual prediction.. dunno though...