has anyone out there got any parents who they find difficult to deal with? i have one student whos parent seems hellbent on blocking me on every turn and has done since the beginning. I always feel I have to justify any new books i use, and she never seems happy with the way i teach despite the fact that i have overheard her talking to other parents about how beautifully her child plays.

It seems that despite the fact that i spend a long time on the basics with my students before moving them on (hence the ""beautiful" playing) she seems to be in a constant state of competition with other parents children, and is telling me that her child should be on this and should be on that by now (because somebody elses child is, ever though she then goes on to say that this somebody else's child doesnt play nicely at all and thumps through everything they play)

sigh

am i in a no win situation here?

any answers on this one would be greatly appreciated

Suggest if she is not happy with you that she is quite at liberty to look for another teacher for her child

If she isnt happy, she can go and find another teacher!!! You dont have to put up with people like that!!

Oh Lynne - a very uncomfortable situationl.

I suspect that underneath this mother is satisfied with her daughter's progress, she just wants to feel that she calls the shots.

I agree - do what other posters have suggested. It might just call her bluff and she could settle down. If she moves her daughter, you at least will not have the hassle!

Maggie

thanks for ur replies, (and i think ur right maggie, she is underneath satisfied or else she wouldnt keep coming back ) i was hoping there wouls be a less drastic answer than risk losing the student outright though, might just call her bluff if things get really bad, im not that good at confrontations and tend to avoid them at all costs!

have any of u ever done this before? called somebodys bluff? what happened?

Yes, years ago I called a mother's bluff - I'd forgotten all about it till this topic came up!
The child in question was not particularly industrious nor, to be honest, particularly musical. I had done my best with her and she got through Grade 1 piano with a solid pass. I was then working to broaden her repertoire, as one does between exams, but after about a month the mother (a very pushy and rather aggressive individual) demanded to know why I hadn't begun the Grade 2 pieces yet - because some other child that her daughter knew had started them.
I explained, as politely and patiently as I could, that I felt her child needed more time to consolidate what had already been achieved, but the mother wasn't having any of that and said that if I wasn't prepared to begin the Grade 2 pieces with her daughter, she knew of someone else who would!
I told her I'd think about what she'd said. Later I phoned her - she was obviously expecting me to back down and give in to her unreasonable demand, and when I said that I thought it would be better all round if she did take her child elsewhere for lessons, she was clearly shocked.
I haven't regretted doing this for one moment, although I did feel sorry for the child caught up in the middle!

I had a chat with a group of teachers while working on saturday - we all agreed the best way to deal with parents like that is ask them to sit in on the lesson. Invariably, no matter what their complaint is, they will either back off because they don't want to sit in, or they will sit in and realise you are a good teacher.

I tried the harshest form of calling a bluff though the other day. A parent made a complaint about my teaching to a parent friend of theirs, who happened to have a child I taught. I called up this parent and told them that in view of what I'd heard, their child couldn't learn with me any more. The parent ended up coming all the way in to visit me to ask to take their pupil back, and apologising about complaining about my teaching to other people.

When it comes to justifying every single thing you do during a lesson especially why certain books are needed then you begin to wonder why you are bothering. In this situation I would be giving a months notice of my intention to stop tuition and when asked why I would prepare to be honest. If the parent likes your teaching then in that time you should see an improvement and if not then you have a way out at the end. Generally from the start with my own pupils I make sure that parents are happy then this never occurs. It sounds like the parent feels like they are employing you, rather than you are allowing them to have lessons with you!

I was interested to read DavidMusic's comment about parents sitting in on lessons.
That was my first reaction, to suggest a parent 'shared / observed' the child's lesson.

It's a way of approaching the difficulty head-on. The parent will either accept the opportunity.....or not.

I usually give the parent a brief outline of what we've covered in the lesson when[if] they come to collect them. Otherwise I suppose they may sometimes wonder what has been achieved during the half an hour [or longer]. It's a way of making them feel included - after all, they are paying!

hi all thanks for all your answers to this one, i think i've finally come to the conclusion that my student base is of a size now that it can handle the possibility of dropping a student...... so i needn't be trying so hard with this one,
With respect to the parent sitting in on the lessons, she does that anyway

anyway the daughter is taking her prep test this week so will see what happens after that, am suspecting she wil be demanding grade 1 shortly after so will call her bluff on that one if she does

many thanks all

QUOTE

i think i've finally come to the conclusion that my student base is of a size now that it can handle the possibility of dropping a student...... so i needn't be trying so hard with this one,

that's good - it puts you in a stronger position!

I lost a young pupil last year; one I had taught since the age of 5, and who had done very well with grades 1 and 2, and slightly less well with grade 3. Mum was pushing for gr 4 and I did not think it a good idea. There were other problems too (timetables and possible falling-off of interest on the child's part), but it was only a couple of term's later that she was moved to another teacher and I suspect the exam issue was behind it. There were no ultimatums issued, and it was all fairly amicable, but I simply would not start exam work when I did not feel the child was ready. There was evidence that she had struggled slightly with the technical demands of gr 3 and I wanted to improve some aspects first. I don't regret it, although I lost a student of several years' standing. I hope for the child's sake the new teacher was not persuaded to immediately start work on the next grade.
Good luck with yours !

M

thanks maggie

btw what is it with some parents and exams? do they not think that their child is progressing unless they're sitting the next exam?

But then so many posts on this forum suggest that a grade ayear is normal progress.
I wonder how true this is for the 'average' person?

it varies so much doesnt it from pupil to pupil, and i know in my case i have yet to enter a student into grade one after a year partly because i start teaching them so young.

On a lighter note, I tried this once on a mum who was wondering why her daughter wasnt taking grade one yet and it worked like a charm...... get the grade one syllabus and play through the pieces with serious flair and panache and exuberance , maybe taking them a little faster than you would teach, and go through all the scales and arpeggios in the same way, the look on this parents face when she saw the complexities involved in grade one said it all..... and now she's quite happy with her daughter going through repertoire books, learning new music and techniques and aiming towards the prep test.

It opened my eyes to something I didnt realise befopre which is that although parents know and understand how the grade system works, the eight grades leading to diplomas etc, not many of them are actually familiar with the exact standard needed for each grade, to your average parent grade 1 means "beginners level", if they're child has been learning for a year then they often assume that this level has been reached.

I often think it would be nice if the board brought out a pre-prep test exam, designed for the VERY young beginner, it sounds silly but my daughter learns ballet and is going through the Royal Academy exam system, and she has taken pre-primary and primary, both of which lead onto grade 1. (and i have not heard of any of the ballet parents being concerned about the timing of grade 1 in the same way that piano parents are)
just a thought


Its a tricky one though, this grade a year thing, where did it come from anyway? Does the Associated Board recommend it anywhere?

QUOTE

btw what is it with some parents and exams? do they not think that their child is progressing unless they're sitting the next exam?

| find more and more that many parents use the grades as a lever in the educational system. Some schools (where entry is competitive) give credit for music grades.

It's unfortunate that it sometimes gets in the way of other considerations.
Then again of course you get the parent who is just plain pushy.

Another thing that can happen is that a parent regards an exam as a means of getting a pupil out of an interest slump. "Oh she'll start working again if you put her in for the next exam!" !
In some cases this might work but seems to me to be putting the cart before the horse. You don't go in for a marathon in order to start getting fit surely ? you'd get into training first ??

I think the point about most parents not realising what's involved is a good one. Those who don't know probably do regard grade one as being for beginners.

I also teach some young beginners - many of my students start around age 6. Looking back over the past few years, I would say that 18 months to 2 years is the time most pupils take to get to a comfortable grade one. These are some of the most important stages for a young pupil, and I don't believe in rushing them. Sure, many can learn the pieces in less time - but the other skills tend not to be safely in place.
As to a grade a year, I find that some pupils manage this, but it tends to be the more committed ones who do, and many take it more slowly. I read somewhere that most students will get through a grade a year once grade one is done. I can't remember where I read it though. In "these Music Exams" the board states that "it usually takes a year between grades" it may be a previous version of the same document that I remember reading.

Unusually I have had two students taking two exams each in the past year. It's not something I normally do, and is definitely not in response to parental pressure, but has just happened that way with two very keen and hardworking youngsters. I must make sure they realise it's not the norm !

Regards
Maggie

i've heard that comment about the interest slump aswell, and you're quite right about this putting the cart before the horse....

I didnt think when i posted this one that I would get so many in depth replies on it

Out of interest maggie, your students who are doing two grades in one year, which grades are they? I've not been teaching my very little beginners for that long so have yet to get any of them through the grade system to any extent, (though I have acquired many studetns from other teachers already at higher grades) and I'm fairly convinced that the way I teach is going to leave a very small gap between grades 1 and 2

QUOTE

Out of interest maggie, your students who are doing two grades in one year, which grades are they?

Grades 1 and 2 - as you probably guessed!

I also had an adult last year who did gr3 in March and gr4 in December; however that was a bit different because he had returned to piano a couple of years ago after a gap of many years.
We decided to start with gr3 in order to bring scales etc up to standard, but in fact playing and sight reading were probably already a bit beyond gr3, so he wasn't typical.

Equally, I do feel that exams don't suit everyone, and that for some students a grade a year is too much.

You're right - it is an interesting topic and has taken off.
Maggie

If by 'in one year' you mean 'before the same session comes around', i remember I did my Grade 6 saxophone one summer, and my grade 7 the following spring.

It's quite common to do more than one grade a year in woodwind exams in my experience, especially when it's not the pupil's first instrument. My son passed Grade 1 alto sax with distinction in Spring 2003, and Grade 3 with merit at Christmas, but has the benefit of being a brilliant sight-reader.

However, the most startling case was an adult pianist I've met, who started to learn 4 years ago, and so far has taken a grade a term up to and including grade 7. He's taking a bit longer over grade 8

So he's spent well over 2 years between grade 7 and grade 8?

QUOTE (DavidMusic @ Mar 7 2004, 11:54 PM)

So he's spent well over 2 years between grade 7 and grade 8?

Ooops! I meant 3 years, not 4.

QUOTE

Its a tricky one though, this grade a year thing, where did it come from anyway? Does the Associated Board recommend it anywhere?

but now the exam syllabus applies for 2 years, not just one - i understood this was so students would have longer to prepare?

although it's not always necessary to spend ages between exams, I know someone who took the grades 1-4 in about 2 years (G1 summer, 2 in spring, 3 in winter same year and 4 either following summer or maybe November) and she got 3 distinctions and a merit. But i think she had started learning to play 3 or 4 years before taking G1 so maybe she was just catching up!!!!

I've had quite a few of my pupils do a couple of exams in a year, and not just the lower grades. Thing is, it all depends on how hard they work. I recently had a student do grades 5 and 7 within a year, she worked really, really hard and got 130 in grade 5 and then 133 in grade 7. She was determined to do it, as she needed the UCAS points! The fact that UCAS points are now awarded for the higher grades has made a big difference to my more advanced students - thank goodness music exams are now recognised in this way...

Has anyone else found this?

it's been a long time since I originally posted this question and I seem to have sorted something out.
possibly.

Anyway for those of you who are interested, the situation got much much worse with the child blatantly not only disliking practise (ie not doing any) but beginning to really dislike the lessons too, any piece that needed going over for a second week (and with one practise a week this was a significant amount lol) had the child huffing and puffing and pulling faces.

The answer appears to have been that I had two long chats with the mother, and the child has taken a two month break, it's been a really tricky one as the child just doesnt have the interest and the mother is determined that she should learn the piano, but I stood my ground despite many "discussions" and we shall see what's going to happen after the two months.

It did strike me as something of a good idea, the long break, (and I can't take full credit, it was suggested to me by my partner), and for any of you out there who are also having trouble with a student, at the very least it has taken the immediate pressure off and the mum now knows I mean business and that I can't be streamrolled