My son's music teacher continually uses the same stick to 'encourage' him in his pursuit of his Grade 5 theory exam - i.e "All my pupils get distinctions or merits - I do not want anything less on my record". In my estimation, my son is not gifted or talented but simply a conscientious tryer. Just how much does the 'presented by' count for with an examiner (or does he/she see it even) and/or do the ABRSM actually keep such records? Perhaps we should swop the teacher who appears more interested in her/his record and reputation for a one more interested in the pupils standard and enjoyment of music? What do you teachers think?

Not all mine do. It isn't the be all and end all : in fact, I find it a rather unhealthy attitude. All I can say is I work hard for my pupils, and I think the overwhelming majority of my pupils, past and present, enjoy their music lessons. That's what's most important.

Well said, Baz. We all know that for some of them just squeezing through is a huge personal achievement. I think only about a third of my pupes actually choose to go down the exam route anyway. Quite a lot of my exam candidates are "presented by" Bag's School rather than Bag herself so there's no "proof" they've actually been taught by me.

Is-it-too-early-for-mulled-wine-yet?-Bag x

I wouldn't have thought that 'presented by' makes any difference to the examiners. Probably the majority of names of teachers/parents/people who enter their pupils/children/themselves mean nothing to the examiner. Whether the AB keep records of teachers' records or not, I have no idea although I think I read somewhere that they do.

As I teacher, I frankly don't care whether all my pupils get merits/distinctions or whether they get a 'plain pass' - I'm more interested in teaching them about music, how to play their instrument and to be the best musicians they can be. Some pupils are quicker to learn than others, some work harder than others, for some a pass at any level is a huge achievement and encouragement to them. I think a teacher who is interested in their own reputation or only having high achieving pupils is perhaps less interested in encouraging their pupils to achieve the best they can.

Unless there is a need to get a merit or a distinction for some sort of grant or interview or somesuch, does it really matter? If a teacher only has merits and distinctions it _suggests_ to me that they might be holding back on the exams for _some_ who could have probably passed in the previous term.

I think I'm right in saying that the list of candidates available to the steward has a 'censored' version of the 'presented by' line, with no titles or letters after names. I wonder if this is also what the examiners see, preventing any possible influence?

On the matter of "No pupil of mine ever gets less than a merit", I really wonder how this can work in real life. Either you only take on pupils with huge potential, and sack them if they get less motivated, or you refuse to enter for exams those who are perfectly capable of passing. I can't help but see it more as an ego-boost for the teacher than as a valid educational approach.

Well, I happened to mention a couple of months ago that in 20 years of teaching I have never had a failure yet. I have had a mixture of distinctions, merits and passes, but not even one failure. Following which one member (who remains nameless) decided to "slate" me with remarks that I only enter pupils who are ready for exams and that is the reason why I've never had a failure. Well, of course I do. I am certainly not going to enter pupils who are not ready. To be honest, I always encourage my pupils to aim for distinctions or merits, it is my job to do that, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with just a pass. It still shows a good level of achievement which they have worked hard to achieve, and anyone who says otherwise I feel is a very sad person.

What the candidate list shows is the applicant name, I believe. The 'presented by' box is separate on the entry form, and does not have to be the same as the applicant name. I don't think there is any censorship involved.

I hope there's no record. Or no importance attached, now or in the future. For here we tend to enter candidates in the accompanist's name - it makes keeping them all together so much easier - and therefore cheaper.

Please don't eat me alive, porilo ( ), but I'm not sure that's the best way to phrase that to pupils : if they then end up with a bare pass, you risk demotivating them rather.

The examiner's comment sheet has the name of the person 'presented by' on it - at least my Grade 8 bassoon one did, and I think it was written in by hand, presumably by the examiner from the list of candidates given to him. The steward's list, when I've done exams myself, usually has the candidates names on it but it's possible that stewards might print their own lists depending on how they run their venue.

So far as I know, the list the steward has is the same as the one the examiner has, and both indicate the 'presented by' entry because the examiner writes this on the marksheet. So far as I know it will include both the name and any letters if they've been entered.

Apologies - then. I've got that wrong.

To go back to the OP's point I think the teacher wants to be able to say to prospective parents / put on their advertising literature that they only have merits and distinctions, rather than the record being for the board to see. It strikes me as a silly thing to say, for all the reasons given above. One teacher who made a big thing out of aiming for distinctions gave my daughter her result sheet one time with the words "I have bad news..." I forget whether it was 118 or 128 she had got, but he saw it as bad, whereas it was very good. It might even have been for her grade 4 which she took one term after grade 1.

And the sad thing is that it's very common. Why on earth can't we get away from the 'make sure you get distinctions in your exams or it'll be dreadful' culture that appears to be snowballing now, and actually get people to play music because they actually enjoy doing it, and if they get 60/100 or 100/150 while working their guts out for an exam, to praise their effort and hard work in achieving a pass standard in their exam. You never know, we may then end up with a generation of people playing music for sheer enjoyment over and above anything else...

I agree with only entering those who are ready for an exam and who have a reasonable chance of passing.
Apart from any other considerations exams are too expensive to suggest that an underprepared candidate (or their parents) coughs up the fee.

I would never mention a possible merit or distinction except by way of explaining the mark scheme. The best comment I will make is 'I think you will do well'. How well is well depends on the student.

If we are talking about theory then it is totally unnecessary to put pressure on any student to gain a merit or distinction in this area. A grade 5 theory pass is sufficient to get onto the next stage. But I would prefer a teacher to teach me well and even enter me for a grade below my level if it meant I got a very high distinction. I'd rather be a good musician and rather than being held back I think I'd be pushing on faster as my technique, tone, musicality would not be rushed. My limited experience of music schools and JD's is that they won't even contemplate entering a student for an exam unless they are likely to gain a high distinction. The fact is that they really don't care about exams but when a student sits one they should be able to get high marks.

I'm only saying that on the basis that one steward once asked what the letters after my name were and read them off her sheet.

Yes. I had a call a couple of weeks ago from the mum of a child I'm taking on next term. She had just received the result of the girl's grade 5 - and was disappointed because she'd been awarded 'only' 118. I spent a good half hour making positive noises, and encouraging mum to celebrate the fact of her daughter getting an above average pass for her exam. I hope I succeeded.

Apparently she'd scored all distinctions and merits in previous exams, including one very high distinction, so felt let down. This is another factor, of course - high marks set a tradition which can be difficult to maintain. A child who gains 135 for grade 1 will probably be disappointed with 122 at grade 2 - and yet another who starts off at 112 would be delighted with that grade 2 mark.

I think you are all like my teacher. He says things like "if you play like that, you'll certainly pass" (which is indefinite, because I could have a total meltdown on the day and not play like that), or "we want you to pass as well as possible" (indicating that a pass is likely, but hey, why not push the boat out and go for a merit or a distinction - this is usually when we do sight-reading practice!)
I think that porilo encouraging pupils to aim for merit or distinction is not a bad thing, but to agree with b-c as well, in that it has to be done in a way that doesn't say "and you're useless if you don't get one". But it is perfectly possible to do both - aim high, but acknowledge that anything above the pass mark is a Good Thing

Given the time differential between entry date and exam date, there are two people who can effect the result, the teacher and the candidate. The teacher can be the best teacher in the world, and judge that on the entry date the candidate should be ready. That does not mean theywill .

If the candidate does not do the work, has an off day or 101 other reason that dead-cert distinction is might now have turned into a fail.

It is not isn't the teachers fault if the student does not do the work between lessons. I'm sure the poor teacher (at this point rapidly turning grey or bald, or driven to drink or some combination of the three...) has tried every trick in the book including bringing mum and dad in.

Pupils fail. I know that. The ones who I have had fail I have predicted before they have and learnt not to take as a slur on my abilities. Normally the parents have continued to insist their offspring go ahead with the exam even though we all know there has been a lack of preparation.

When they were enterred, they should have passed. The only one who I was disappointed with, was a a Grade 1 singing pupil who froze instead of singing something during the sight singing. If he had done that he would have passed. Nerves is the only other unknown that can reduce the level of a performance, and much as I do my best in pupils prep to help prevent nerves, some candidates are terribly afflicted, and others just breeze through things.

To great an expectation can certainly exacerbate nerves, and that is where some tlc from both teacher parents can help. A teacher or parent who expects such excellence is setting up children to misery, whereas one who is pleased with a pass and delighted with anything higher will build self-esteem.

Low self-esteem is not a pleasant thing to have as it can blight lives. Having suffered in such a manner, it certainly is not something I would want any pupil to suffer from too.

I have seen on too many occasions my children being entered for exams where they have had to slog hard for three months to pass. It shouldn't be like that. A pupil should be at a level when entered for an exam that they could pass it comfortably within a month let alone three. In my opinion if a pupil fails, other than horrendous nerves, it's because they simply were not grade X standard. I also find it worrying that a music teacher would enter themselves for an exam happy to scrape a pass. What does that teach their students?

Teachers take calculated risks when they enter candidates for exams over when is the best time to enter.

Enter too soon and as you say it is a hard slog. Enter too late and the candidate may be bored of the work for the exam.

In the commercial world, music is often learnt in next to no time so preparing for the hard slog is prabaly fairer than allowing pupils to coast. However, what do you do as a teacher when you think, this is going really well, and your complacent pupil decides to sit back on their laurels and do no work?

Unless you are a teacher, it is difficult to comment. Unless you know the student, and know what motivates that student it is hard to comment. That is why some can teach, and others can't. It is not for others to look at a teacher who has one or two pupils who are bringing down the standard of their practice and say 'they are enterring pupils for exams far too early!' The remainder of their pupils could be getting merits, and high passes with distinctions for the very able.

I do not believe that any candidate that I have enterred and that have failed and exam had they progressed at the rate I had expected and had put the right amount of effort in should have failed (nerves or health aside) Even with Nerves there have been some scraped passes that should have been far safer.

Sadly, this is true. I have a teenage pupil who recently passed Grade 3 with 120 (despite her texting me after the exam to say that she'd 'really messed up' 2 of her pieces) and although I told her how what a good mark this is, she said 'but I got 126 for Grade 2 and 131 for Grade 1'. Nothing I could say convinced her that she'd done well.

There is no 'should' about it.

I once had a pupil (inherited from another teacher who moved away) who was completely inert, but wanted to play. The only thing that motivated her to practice was having an exam deadline looming.

If I'd been more assertive I would have given her the boot but I saw it as my role to inspire and challenge so I put the frighteners on by entering her for an exam with several months to get up to standard. (It goes without saying that we did other things besides her pieces; we did rhythm-clapping, solfege, theory, quizzes, singing back an answering phrase, scales, aural etc)

I was relieved when she (just) passed but I daresay the OP's teacher would have shown her the door. At least when she did give up, she left on a high.

I have the opposite problem where DS is delighted with any mark eventhough he could have done much better. He has just received his grade 5 singing exam mark and what a farse. Having missed 12 bars out on one piece and forgetting sections on others he has just obtained a score of 120. Had he performed in such a way in his grade 5 bassoon exam (130) or had four lessons in a whole term he would have failed. So not only do I think singing exams are not comparable to instrumental exams, there seems to be little objectivity in the marking and the strength of the voice is what got him through, not his technical ability. A lesson my have been learnt if he'd failed but he's absolutely delighted!

Definitely! The current teacher's attitude is close minded and IMO harmful.

yes I think I have been told on an ABRSM course that the board do keep the statistics on a certain teacher, so if there is an issue with a batch of exam results, they can see if there is a point of a complaint.

I think one needs to remember that the time between entering a pupil and the date the exam is taken is not the same worldwide. Neither is the opportunity to choose between one of three sessions per year available everywhere. The pacing of exam preparation is a delicate thing and can't be reduced to having to be a Grade X standatd player a month - or three months - before an exam. A lot also depends on the education system in which the pupil is at school and at what point those sort of pressures kick in. I don't see how there can be anry rule of thumb. I take a long term view of my pupils exam routes and they are varied, depending on age, ability, motivation, general education and other things likely to affect them.

There are also many more reasons for failure than nerves or not being at the required level. In my experience it is much more complicated than that.

I would also like to add that we ought to point out to our pupils that if they pass - even if they only just pass - they have got two thirds of the marks required. I find this useful because in French schools all tests and exams are marked out of twenty and the "pass mark" is ten. So when I explain to my pupils who have gained a pass that they have got two thirds of the marks they are pleased - and so they should be.

I have to date entered approximately 260 candidates. The number of passes merits and distinctions my pupils have achieved seems to me to be reasonable. I have had one failure and it was not because of either nerves or not being at the standarrd for the Grade. There were other reasons why things went wrong on the day.

I am sorry that this particular pupil didn't get his certificate. I am, however, as a teacher, grateful for the experience of having a failure as it taught me a lot. I had been a bit inclined to congratulate myself on a 100% pass rate. I now see how stupid that was.

To my mind, the above quotes say it all.

and No, Bagpuss, it's never too early.

This teacher who wants to protect their merits and distinction record has obviously never met a harsh examiner. I mean one of those who gives mostly passes and the odd merit. Their record will go out of the window if they get one of those one session

Providing the marking is fair, the pupil has had teacher support and the comments suggest areas to improve then it's only a mark. Take advice and move on is probaly the best option.

I don't know how other people approach exams but in support of daughter we always try to encourage her to do the best she can, look at weak areas and try to improve. Exams are only a mark on the day and sometimes people get distinctions because they have been trained to pass an exam and not because they are very good players.

I had a pupil who was very keen, but not naturally gifted. In addition, their dentition made it very difficult for them to play their chosen instrument. I suggested (and we tried) alternative instruments but they were determined to continue with their first choice.
It took three years of preparation to help this pupil to move from grade 2 to achieve 102 in grade 3. They were absolutely delighted with this mark.
To my mind this is as much of an achievement for me and my pupil as some distinctions gained by other people. The important thing is that everybody had fun along the way, we both learned something, and the eventual outcome was pleasing to all concerned.

If I only entered people who were "guaranteed" merits and distinctions I would not make many entries in a year!

I know there have been lots of responses to this, and that I am not really saying anything new, but I was just so incensed by the statement "All my pupils get distinctions or merits - I do not want anything less on my record" that I had to respond. It is hard to know where to begin with such a statement. The teacher in question is obviously concerned only about their own ego. Exams should be milestones, not millstones.

There are some teachers who pick and choose their pupils though so they wouldn't necessarily have the full range of abilities to cater for.

...and others who pick up their 'rejects' who often were very upset at being turned down just because they had a specific learning difficulty or other behavioural difficulty.

I teach all comers. SLD pupils are normally fun, and very rewarding.

Giving Porilo the benefit of the doubt here, I suspect he means "Aim high, then if you miss you should still be OK" (or "you'll definitely pass at this standard, but a bit more work on x y and z will make it even better") rather than "I want you to get over 125".


Yup, this is what I was trying to say less elegantly!
I would like to know how many parents would be disappointed with 80% in a school exam? (this is what I had to say to myself this summer!)

Whatever the perception, the above 'harsh examiner' is unlikely to exist. All the major music-examining bodies have moderating procedures which will quickly spot a rogue examiner who 'mostly gives passes and the odd merit' and address the problem.

Music examining will always have some element of subjectivity, but I genuinely believe real effort is made to reduce this to a minimum wherever possible.

I know our local stewards use the 'presented by list' as a way of contacting local teachers. Teachers with a decent set of Post-nominals can make the certificate look pretty. However is there any more than that?

I only use it to help the stewards and to pretty up the certificate - nothing more!

Sorry but I beg to differ on that point. There have been times when all candidates over a 3 day session have come away with a pass. It's happened twice on special visits to my daughter once where the highest was 118. I know neither teacher nor I were in the exam room at her particular exam but on both occassions she's had distinctions either side of the pass. The exam reports haven't really given much of an indication as to why the result was so low. This is what was more frustrating than the low mark. The mark alone is not that important it's taking things from the exam to build for the future.

I've heard it said about a certain institution that because the playing standards are higher generally. That the candidates have to work harder for their marks. I don't know if it's true but that worries me less than the other situation.

Anyway the point I was trying to make was that teacher's often don't have a lot of control over the result even when the candidates are well prepared.

There isn't an option with AB not to use it. I know, I tried once the time I put in the entry myself.
I never thought that it would make a difference to stewards especially as it seems some teachers are happy enough to have someone else's name in that place anyway.

Last January I was having a long and interesting conversation with an ex-pupil, now adult, who has become a professionnal singer. He told me about two of his colleagues who had applied to become AB examiners. They left the course because they felt that the marking scheme and the way they were told they must implement it was too rigid. They felt that individual examiners should have the opportunity to use their own judgement to a far greater degree. I went to great lengths to explain to my ex-pupil that the AB are right in struggling to maintain the same standards throughout the world, and that his colleagues were wrong. I tried to explain that they should submit their judgements to the same rigourous criteria as other examiners for the sake of consistency. I don't think he was completley convinced but it did open up a line of argument for him.

The fact that these two musicians decided not to pursue their course to become examiners is interesting. I doubt if either of them would have made good examiners and I am pretty sure the AB would have spotted that.

Complaints were made by some teachers in the locality. We don't seem to have had a particularly hard marker recently though. Maybe we've had our fair share.

The last thing an examination board want is maverick examiners. I worked as and admin assistant obtaining references for a local exam board and one reference used the word maverick about a would-be examiner who did not get the job. All the other points were positive and stated how personable and well qualified they were. Imagine having to moderate a bunch of papers that had not been marked to the criteria...

However, at a TG seminar on their new exams when asked to test mark a few videoed 'Candidates' a bunch of teachers with the criteria in front of them all agreed within a mark or two, and all would have placed each candidate within the same banding so there is hope. It was interesting that, we were all toughest on the technical sections for our own instruments.

I think they probably do exist! As does the polar opposite 'generous examiner'. I agree that they are rare, but believe me, they are out there, for all the examining boards.



On this, though

If the report sheets of large group of candidates (around 60?) did not give reasons for marks being lost, with 118 as the highest mark, I am sure the examining body would want to hear about it.

It is only by querying this type of event that improvements can be made.

All examiners' marks are collated by most major examining boards on a regular basis, and percentages of fails, passes, merits and distinctions scrutinised to help with standardisation.
Examiners are trained to include phrases in their comments to justify the band of marks awarded.

The first time the applicant did not query the marks. I'm not certain how many candidates were effected but it was around 3 or 4 full days worth. The second time at least 3 families appealed, and whilst no evidence of harsh marking was found free re-sits were offered. One of the candidates was actually re-sitting the exam after getting a merit the session before and failed. The aural marks were all low averaging around 9 across all the grades.

I'm not for marks being raised on the basis of complaint but I do think there should be more openness about moderation and proceedures for dealing with exam situations that are out of the ordinary.

While no evidence of harsh marking was presented to you, it's possible that it was found. It's worth bearing in mind that the board has duties under employment law and data protection, and can't simply tell you everything about an examiner. They certainly can't turn around and say "Yes, we've decided to not employ him again" - but this might, in some cases, be the result nonetheless.

The only time I felt I'd encountered a 'harsh' marker was more likely their inexperience (I could tell that from her Facebook profile...), which also showed through in the very obvious use of stock phrases, including repeating the same comments for successive candidates, without noticing that they were siblings!

I had a conversation with an examiner in the early 1990's who told me she felt terribly sorry at having failed a dozen pupils in a row the previous day- all entered by the same (cello) teacher.

Apparently the teacher had no idea of the standard expected!

ABRSM offer some excellent 'Meet the Examiner' sessions where a lot of the above points are discussed, and questions can be asked. The training of examiners is covered as is marking of the individual sections of the exam with practical examples.

Well worth looking out for!

Aural tests. If half of the tests are answered correctly, the candidate will achieve a pass mark i.e 12/18