Has anyone else suffered from the same problem as me...

I've been learning to play the organ "properly" for about 18 months now, and helping with a hymn or two during church services for about 1 year BUT when I have to play some thing people sing to I go to pieces, I can't play both hands at a speed anyone in their right mind would want to sing along to. I'm OK if I just use chords, but give the left hand any form of melody to play and it's Les Dawson at his comic finest!

I know I'm probably trying to run before I can walk, but I still feel I should be making more progress in this department (I had some basic keyboard skills when I started so wasn't a complete beginner with the right hand, it's just the left hand getting up to speed when the congregation start!)

I know this will probably trigger off discussions about not playing in church until you are a grade 5 or something but the reality is our local small churches have little choice and I've already been approached by another church to see if I can help there as well.

Any ideas and please let me know I'm not alone with this problem!

I wonder if by "properly" you mean you are using the pedals, or if you just mean you are playing it like an organ rather than like a piano.

Hymns vary such a lot. I assume you mean bog standard Anglican style ones rather than Kendrick stuff. Also there is one popular hymn book about in which the arrangements are pretty poor.

I am 53, well qualified, and have been playing the organ since I was 11 although I didn't have lessons until I was 14. The first hymn I accompanied in public was "Peace Perfect Peace" (A&MR 358 tune Pax Tecum); I didn't use the pedals.

The first thing to realise is that one does not play the bass part on the manuals if you ARE using the pedals. However, I am going to assume that you are not using them, although what I say will be relevant. Some hymns have vocal part which are well spread out and you may need to redistribute some of the notes between the hands, or miss some out. I'm now looking at St. Thomas (A&M 388). In bars 7+8 is one going to stretch a 10th with the LH even if one can (T+B)? So this is the kind of thing you prepare in practice sessions. Pedals make it all so much easier.

I wonder what you mean by speed. Does the congregation race you? Are you giving a rhythmic lead by the articulation you use (or don't use); that's probably not on your agenda yet.

It is quite hard to advise without having heard you play.

Stick at it! Some hymns do need practice, such as Mount Ephraim, but at a slow pace it isn't too difficult; just don't get tied in knots in the final 3 bars.

If you are having problems leading the congregation, simply sing along and make sure you play to your voice and not to theirs.

As for not playing the bass in the LH if you are using the Pedals, I don't have a problem with that myself. It doesn't do any harm and in the early days of hymn playing can help build fluency, since you are not worrying about which notes to miss out in the LH.

I started playing the organ at 10, but didn't have a lesson until the age of 26 1/2. My bad habits might therefore be frowned upon by others e.g. I play in my socks.

I am learning pedals and bass clef for the first time (never played piano)

In our church we use A&M and Songs of Fellowship, the latter I'm well within my comfort zone as I can "cheat" and use the chords, but that's not how I want to play. It's just as soon as I have to play with both hands using both clefs at a speed people can sing to I go "to pieces" so I stick to the easier "lesser" way. (no offence to anyone intended as this is how I learnt to play )

By speed I mean, I literally seem unable to maintain any cohesive sense of tempo!

I know I'm very hard on myself (my tutor says all his adult pupils are) I'm always so worried about making a fool of myself with too many duff notes that I stick to chords and not taking the "bull by the horns"!

I guess I need to get over this mental barrier, and as you mentioned not try to play all the notes all the time and just go for it. My tutor says I need to toughen up (in a nice way) if anyone says anything I should suggest they see if they can do any better!




I might try that as I enjoy the pedals, and it just might do the trick with fluency!

It is one thing playing at your own tempo in private, but altogether different leading a congregation; especially if they are used to being led by somebody who likes to play hymns very quickly. Worse still, the congregation may be used to singing to pre-recorded hymns on a CD player, which are invariably played much too quickly.

Might it help to play along to some hymns recorded at a decent pace, such the '50 Favourite Hymns from King's', (available on CD and on Spotify) just to get used to playing at somebody else's tempo?

SB

OK - I think this is a main factor. Lots of practice with the bass clef needed.

My first attempts at accompanying hymns (and anglican chant) were three part affairs - SAB.

I'd recommend getting the Bach 371 Harmonized Chorales and 69 Chorale Melodies.
In particular with the 69 you mostly have tune and bass line only (together with figured bass numbers) which can be good for practice (and make for quite good service filler material).
The rest of it then gives you lots of quality four part chorales to play with (although they might spoil you somewhat when you return to Songs of Fellowship!)

I used to have a book of easy arrangements of hymns (Published by Kevin Mayhew?) which might help you gain confidence.

It might help your left hand reading if you work through a sight-reading book or two (e.g. Improve Your Sight-reading by Paul Harris).

You could try using a metronome: set it at a speed at which you can play a hymn accurately and confidently and then increase it a notch or so at a time. If you can manage to play the hymn with the metronome faster than you intend to play it in church that should give you extra confidence. (Of course, when you accompany a congregation you will probably want to give a little extra breathing space at the ends of lines rather than play metronomically.)

I agree that it is better to play the bass part in the left hand as well even if you are playing pedals - makes it easier to play some verses without the pedals for variety as well.

If you have been asked to play in another church as well, you are obviously doing something right!

Bourdon16's suggestion about singing along so you set the tempo is a good one.

I have been known to keep the registration on full organ even though I wanted to do something more subtle as the congregation were dragging/rushing. If in doubt pull out the reeds.

As long as the tempo you set is reasonable you set the speed not the congregation.

Your aesthetic self might say flutes on swell and 8ft pedal flute box shut, yet if the congregation is not playing fair, you need to work with the fact you are controlling the loudest thing in the building.

The Paul Harris sight-reading series is excellent.

I play four part harmony on manuals and double the bass part on the pedals where I can. It is much easier to start that way. I can now get through several hymns that way without terrible sounds coming from the pedals.

It may be helpful to write out the more difficult hymn tunes on three staves, remembering that the layout in hymn books is normally in four part harmony and does not show the division between left and right hands.

I have a few hymn tunes written out in that way. If you would like copies, LittleGem, please send me a private email.

Barry Williams

the only real answer is lots of practice I'm afraid...

but obviously if you are attempting something too difficult for you in the first place you will just end up feeling frustrated.

Find easy arrangements to start with, and don't attempt to lead a congregation until you are confident you can play it steadily at a good pace - which for me usually means practising it faster so the "performance" pace feels quite slow and easy

Thank you to everyone who has responded, I'm taking on board everyones comments and advice and will be acting on them!

I have now bought myself an excellent book by Anne Marsden Thomas which puts the hymns onto 3 staves, its a bit like the music version of a "large print novel" and I think I will start at page one and work my way through it methodically.

Laughably my sight reading is actually one of my strong points, as long as no one is listening, singing or watching my hands!

I'll have to acept Rome wasn't built in a day and playing for services is a different skill to "just playing the organ"

I hadn't realised when I accepted the challenge to learn to play what a dying art form it is in some areas. The other church who have approached me are aware I'm a complete novice but have had no organist for years which I find really sad java script:emoticon(':(',%20'smid_3')

Now I just need to sort out the elderly lady who insists on sitting next to me when I play, and stage whispers instructions like "go slower" or "can you play this one a little quicker?"........if she isn't careful I may find an alternative use for that Songs of Fellowship book

Given your user name littlegem. There are some sweeties with a similar name called midget gems that are small wine gums. She would have to chew these or choke on them if you gave her one to eat immediately prior to every hymn you were due to sing. Alternatively, Devon Toffees work very well.

As organist you set the tempo. Which rank of pipes are immediately over her head? Make sure you use them every time she drags.

I wonder if Gobstoppers are still available?.......

They are! You can even get really big ones called Jaw-breakers.

Although most hymns look simple on paper they are, in reality, very difficult to play in the context of leading a congregation. To arrive at a stage when you are able to sit down at the organ and play hymns without previous preparation takes a long time and a lot of hard work. I have had grade 8 piano pupils who struggle to play hymns on the piano let alone the organ.

I believe the ability to do so is greatly under-rated and under-valued. At our recent 9 Lessons we had the traditional readings and I had 11 carols to play one after the other (many with special last verses) in quick succession......boom, boom, boom. Naturally frequent registration changes were required; nearly all of which were managed by hand. Not a word of thanks was muttered after the service as they just assume it's easy to do!

"Now I just need to sort out the elderly lady who insists on sitting next to me when I play, and stage whispers instructions like "go slower" or "can you play this one a little quicker?"........"

Your approach is kind. When I experienced this in the(dim and distant) past I simply stopped playing, in the middle of an hymn, got off the bench and asked, very politely, in a loud voice, what the lady wanted. I pointed out that I cannot listen to a conversation and play at the same time. I do exactly that now if someone comes up to the console and says "Don't stop playing but..". I always stop playing, then turn to them, with a nice smile, and say "How can I help?"

No-one would treat orchestral players, readers and those who take services like this, so why organists?

Barry Williams

I take my hat off to you "Oldromola" the 9 lessons is a bit like a workout! until someones tried it, leading hymns looks easy!

I'm only working towards my grade 4 at the moment and can happily play some preludes etc as the congregation get settled, but hymns I've sung them pretty much all my life but had no idea what it was like to actually play them.

I think back to when I was a child and my old churchs ancient organist would hit many a duff note, my brother and I would giggle away in the back row.... she is still, forty years on going strong. I may have to shake her hand for actually stepping forward and doing something no one else has ever volunteered to help with, and I never remember anyone actually thanking her.

A friend of mine (who views this Board but, regrettably, is not a member,) reminded me that the late Michael Fleming thought the hymn tune 'University' one of the most awkward to play. Despite a charming melody, the piece does not fall under the hands at all easily, particularly in the first two lines.

Do Board members find this hymn difficult? I certainly do.

Barry Williams

Yes I know what you mean, the falling first few notes then a jump upwards aren't ideal. Difficult to do legato.

The second half of the first complete bar, with its wide spacing in the right hand, is always going to be awkward. Even if you have big hands I don't think there's any way of avoiding consecutive thumbs on the last two alto quavers and if you have small hands you're probably going to have to use consecutive little fingers too. You can get round the problem by giving some alto notes to the left hand, but the spacing between the A and T parts isn't very close either and that solution forces you to use the pedals all the time. The rest of it is OK once you've sorted out which repeated notes you are going to tie. The fewer you tie the more awkward it is, but I think that probably goes for any hymn. (I don't subscribe to the school of thought that insists that you should reiterate every repeated note.)

I don't think playing it is nearly as difficult as singing every note of the melody precisely in tune!