Now I just need to sort out the elderly lady who insists on sitting next to me when I play, and stage whispers instructions like "go slower" or "can you play this one a little quicker?"........if she isn't careful I may find an alternative use for that Songs of Fellowship book[i][quote]

Ok I've been back from church several hours now and still "miffed", above lady once again stage whispering to me that as I hadn't put a nice big chord in after the intro, no one knew when to start singing (which actually was not completely true, but the hymn was little known by our church) I wouldn't mind but half the congregration could hear her. I am perhaps a little to mild mannered but did manage to retort in an equal volume that I was still learning (normal organist had day off) hadn't played in church for several weeks and had never played that tune as a hymn before (Ode to Joy)

It's quite taken the edge off things and I didn't enjoy the rest of the service or my Sunday practice at home, hence being on the forum

And another thing, and I found this funny, when I returned from taking communion, another elderly parishoner had decided that as my legs "dangle" from the organ stool (I'm only 5ft) that he would help and wedge some cushions on the pedals for me ...........

What can I say....

Ignore these holy critics. In reality, most churches are thankful that there is someone willing to play the organ. A number of parishes are still without any organist or pianist.

Seeing as the parishioner in question is such an expert, perhaps she'd like to come forward and show everyone how it should be played?

My sentiments exactly.

[Slightly O/T. My OH is an organist - learnt in his teens etc. His father learnt as an adult. When we visited, I was treated to a dose of father in law moaning about pianists playing in church. I'm a pianist, and yes, I play the organ like a pianist (ie mostly no pedals), but over the years I developed a decent organist's touch for the keyboards. I'm always in time, and usually hit the right notes. For several years before I married, I played our church organ because there was no one else available, so I took umbridge at the criticism of pianists playing in church. There's always someone willing to criticise. ]

I had actually planned on seeing them out with a new piece I'm learning using the pedals, but that involved getting off the bench, almost laying on the floor to remove said cushions, by which time most people had left the church!

Politeness doesn't always work I'm afraid.

I think your only chance is to get there first, armed with a prop-up sign saying PLEASE DO NOT DISTRACT THE ORGANIST, beside you on the bench.

I seethe when I remember some of the things I've tolerated in the past from old-stagers who want you to do things exactly the way they've always been done, and tend to freak slightly if your way is slightly different (or, heaven forbid, you play 'the wrong tune'). They tend to descend on you in mid-flow to 'correct' you, thereby completely destroying your serenity and concentration.

A quiet word with the cushion -placer should be all that's needed; they were no doubt trying to be helpful, and it was meant kindly.

Hope they get the message and leave you alone.

Rig up a hidden mike so the whole congregation can hear what your elderly lady says and next time she makes a suggestion just get off the stool and tell her to take over! Sorry - I'm not feeling very Christian today!

Seriously, I think the "Dont' distract the organist" notice is quite a good suggestion!

She certainly doesn't need a mike, lots of people heard her, as they came up to me afterwards and told me to ignore her. I might get a T shirt printed with "Dont' distract the organist" on it, or how about "on day release for good behaviour" that may make her think twice

At least this time it was at the end of the hymn, normally it's mid verse!

You must be a good player to cope with such distractions! I would speak to whoever's in charge and ask that no one sit near the organ or that a quiet word in her ear about talking in church is not on!

I, too, agree wholeheartedly with MDSS.

This sort of thing is par for the course and organists soon either i) develop a thick skin, or ii) give up. I have never been noted for my tact and patience, so take the following with a pinch of salt, but what I would do would be the following.

1. I would ask the busybody whether they play the organ themselves. In the unlikely event of them saying "yes" I would point out that the instrument is all theirs and go and find another church.

2. If, as is more likely, they answer "no", I would point out that, since they have no idea how tricky it is and you are still only learning the ropes, they must let you play in whatever way allows you to do the best job possible and also that

3. When you have become fully competent, you and no one but you will decide how the music goes.

You might want to put it more tactfully than this, but I tend to think that you need to set out the rules quite bluntly otherwise the message just doesn't get across. Most busybodies of this ilk are well meaning enough, but unthinking. They need clear, firm guidelines.

You could also try asking them whether they speak any foreign languages because music is in many ways similar. Music can be seen as a language and it takes just as much study, experience and skill as any other before you can read and deliver it completely fluently. They might perhaps understand this analogy better - though I suspect they won't!

"At least this time it was at the end of the hymn, normally it's mid verse!"

Just stop playing. Turn to the lady, whilst the congregation are floundering without the organ, and ask her, politely, what you are doing wrong. Then carry on exactly as before. Do this every time she speaks to you when you are playing and do it reasonably loudly. Keep on doing it until someone in authority tells her to stop. (If you are told to stop, find another church!)

Please be very firm with this unfortunate, misguided soul. She is spoiling your organ playing and the service for everyone else. The time has come to set out the metaphorical markers around the organ console and to stop this inappropiate behaviour. Tragically, she probably thinks she is helping, but that is no reason for you to tolerate it any longer.

Incidentally, I have played quite a number of voluntaries from Leon Boellman's Heures Mystiques. Both volumes are for manuals only. They are useful service music; being easily sight-readable they are excellent for organists who do not use the pedals.

Barry Williams

This made me think of a notice often seen on busses, paraphrased thus; Members of the Congregation must not stand forward of this point whilst the Organist is in motion.

On the subject of 'doing things properly', I have a wonderful book which defines Tradition as "The church rule [which says] that if you have done something wrong for long enough you must keep doing it".

SB

O littlegem, seeing this wanted me to say some words which would surely make some of this congregation faint. How are you supposed to get your confidence with it when this is going on? This is all wrong and whoever is in charge should be stopping this. Failing that I love the notices. Direct and to the point! Sorry no more advice as no expert and learning myself but

The only thing I'd add tho what Barry has suggested, and only if you have full permission with th minister in charge of the service is that when you stop, you add a pedal note that is loud and discordant and keep it on as if there is a pedal cipher that magically clears its self when she shuts up.

The sign. Another one stating do not touch the Organ without permission from the Vicar or the Organistis another good idea. Since you have permission, you are OK. This will stop the cushion placers.

I sympathise as being 4' 11" I also have problems reaching the pedals, however I do need to feel each one and not a mass load of cushion covering half a dozen.

Also get the Minister in charge to make an announcement in the notices that they it has come to their attention that certain members of the congregation are interfering with the Organist during the service and that this is distracting from the main act of worship. Please would they refrain for the sake of the rest of the congregation.

At this time I'm so grateful that the last church I played in had an Organ Loft well away from the congregation. No way of being nobbled, and that in other churches I was in the Chancel and not the Nave. So nice to be tucked in a corner where nobody can interfere with what you are doing, yet you can still use a right hand to bring the choir off if necessary. (I've only ever depped).

Personally I would not want to do anything that would spoil the service.

I would tell this "lady" BEFORE the service that she is putting you off and ask her to sit somewhere else. (If you wanted, you could say that as you're still not very experienced, you can't cope with any distractions.)

I would not start playing until either she had moved, or had agreed not to interfere.

I did actually refuse to play any more at one church, because one sole member of the congregation, on more than on occasion came to me after the service with criticsm, mainly that I played too loud. This was not the opinion of the minister or elders, but it just p***** me off, and I went back to my previous church where my playing is appreciated (its a better organ anyway , but further from home)

Good for you. I've had one person be particularly critical in one church, so I just tell them rather bluntly what I think. I'm doing the job for the majority and not specifically for him, so if he does not like it he can either, leave or keep a civil tongue in his head in future, I am not prepared to listen to anymore invective.

I have the full backing of the PCC, clergy and Church wardens as let us say, he has a reputation.

I had a problem like this in a church where I was the (long term) temporary organist. The problem was a member of the choir who regularly turned round to tell me to play a hymn faster or slower. I used to do the opposite of her request in the hope she would get the message. One Sunday I'd had enough! I informed her that I would play the hymns at MY speed and if she didn't like it, she was very welcome to play the hymns herself. She got the message, which may have had something to do with the fact that she couldn't read music, never mind pay the organ!

"...which may have had something to do with the fact that she couldn't read music."

Whilst good sight-reading is not necessarily a requirement for choir membership, surely at least some ability in reading music is required before joining?

Barry Williams

Our choir can't afford to be that picky! However, a willingness to learn as they go along is expected. I'm about to teach the basics to a new choir member before her first practice this Friday.

Indeed in the majority of parishes, the first priority is to keep the choir running and if that means recruiting enthusiastic people who are willing to learn, I am all for it! Part and parcel of the choirmaster's job is to train the choir. 50 years ago they would be training choirboys to read music and to sing properly. These days it is more often than not the adults which are being trained. If we do not recognise that then surely a large number of parishes will shortly be without any choir at all. A sad circumstance, if that were to be the case...

I have a choir colleague who joined about 6 years ago, with no singing experience at all. She used to take tapes home to learn her notes.

She now sings in three choirs.

For your amusement: Ecclesiatical Collective Nouns:

A Cacophony of Choir members

A Squawk of Sopranos
An Altercation of Altos
A Terror of Tenors
A Bedlam of Basses

A Punch-up of PCC Members
A Misery of Ministers
A Clueless of Clergy


...guess what we were doing over dinner. (NB there was a dearth of Clergy there. Hubby decided to 'take the 5th' on this as he is currently not licensed). Otherwise everyone had a connection with the CofE.

I really had no idea going to church was so much fun.....

This particular female could barely sing in tune!

This is where I could do with a smiley that combines a stare over the glasses with a single raised eyebrow.

Oh dear... :

It is very unfortunate when people take it upon themselves to interfere as described.

I was approached twice after Mass by a man who asked why I didn't play all the verses of the recessional. I thought at first it was asked in a light-hearted way and so I answered "Because if I played all seven verses, we'd be here till Christmas". (I generally wind things up once the priest and altar servers have processed past.)

Turns out he was serious so I explained briefly, adding the priest was happy with this. When he came up a second time I said "I think we've had this conversation before. If you've got any comments on how Mass is conducted, please see Father". Last I heard from him was when I finished the Lord's My Shepherd a verse short and he sang the final verse all by himself. I don't know what point he was trying to make - it just made him look a bit of an idiot.

I have the "Here, you show me how it should be done" option just in case he pesters me again. Ot anyone else for that matter. It is gratifying that many other members of the congregation appreciate my playing and have even been encouraged to start attending the Vigil Mass as a result. No one should be put off playing by one person's ill-judged and unwanted comments.

Where do I even start..

1, If I follow the timing when going to the next verse of a hymn.. I get complaints afterwards the church didnt have time to breathe.. However! (Church A)

In another church I play the same hymn.. they keep the timing and sing in time with the hymn and are very insistent that I keep up. (Church B)

Church A will choose to choose to hold different notes to church B.

Church A and C will complain that im playing loudly, ~ Church B actually enjoys it.

As it happens ive settled at church B.. because they are lively in spirit, ~
When playing the piano, I have to add emotion/character to the hymns, .. just as the people singing would also add emotion etc.. I would feel guilty If I didnt.. it is afterall praising.

It does sound as if church B is the best one for you. There's nothing like the feeling that one's efforts are appreciated, and as you say, you are praising through playing as they are praising through singing. Feeling that you have to temper everything you are doing because otherwise church members will complain is not at all conducive to worship.

I too have had my fair share of people trying to interfere - I used to sit there and take it, but now I tend to be slightly less diplomatic.

More recently, I've a couple of troublemakers try to stick their oar in regarding speed of hymns, as well as a member of the congregation who insisted on clapping during one (and subsequently putting me off). Thankfully, these people form a very small minority.

One of the problems in my own situation is that much of our congregation consists of British ex-pats, so the sound of "but in OUR church back in...." is a familiar sound. I am quick to point out, however, where they are.

Hope your situation improves - it really is most disrespectful.

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