QUOTE (GuestWho! @ Feb 7 2005, 06:09 PM)

A distant relative of mine (maternal side) is Hugh Mather,concert pianist and doctor,based in London. If you ever care to hear him perform and meet,ask him to verify my story.

I will and if he is a medical doctor I will ask his for his opinion on smoking.

QUOTE

We've all heard about "granny" or whoever who smoked till she was 99 and was perfectly healthy

Yes, as I just said, my 89 year old granny is an unrepentent not even ex-smoker - though every time she smokes one now it's out her bathroom window because of the oxygen tank in her bedroom....and as I said she is not perfectly healthy;

However both my non-smoking non-drinking grandpas pre-deceased their wives (now smokin' 89 and non-smokin' 92) in their early to mid-80s from heart disease and cancer, while my non-smoking 21-yr old brother was killed in a car crash and a non-smoking friend of the family died in his 30s from lung cancer a few years back - unlike a good friend of mine in his 40's who died from the same cancer a month ago. There's no justice, is there.

What does this prove? abso####lutely nothing, I'm well aware. My point actually is that there are too many things we are not aware of that harm us insidiously - Neon-Lights I'm so with you there. Smoking is just the tip of the iceberg.

In fact a doctor told me she'd rather I smoke a couple a day than quit and put on 30 pounds as that would be worse for my overall health... Any thoughts on how weight gain/loss affects your voice?

QUOTE (lafrog @ Feb 7 2005, 06:42 PM)

In fact a doctor told me she'd rather I smoke a couple a day than quit and put on 30 pounds as that would be worse for my overall health... Any thoughts on how weight gain/loss affects your voice?

Really , how many do you smoke a day out of interest.

BTW when I gave up smoking I did put on weight because I ate too much not because I gave up smoking, but have since lost it and am now thinner than I was when I smoked.


I notice some opera singers are overweight.

I really don't think that it's a very good argument at all that to say just because other things are unhealthy for us and we have no choice about them we should smoke. Just because there are things in the world that are bad for you doesn't mean that you should add more! So what if the air is polluted, smoking isn't going to unpolute it; nor is it going to remove whatever you're bothered about in food... And yes it's true that you might not die of smoking or that you might die in a car crash tomorrow that doesn't mean that it's a good idea to smoke. We're not all saying that there are pollutants in the air so we may as well all shoot ourselves because it might be fun and we're going to die at some point anyway; yes it's true, we all will, but why do something that stands a significant chance of making you die sooner. Again it's personal choice, but I really do feel that the people who don't smoke (especially innocent children) should be able to make the choice not to have this inflicted upon them as smoking offers no gain to society.

Well said Anotherpianist.

Lucia

QUOTE

I will and if he is a medical doctor I will ask his for his opinion on smoking.  :lol:  :lol:

By all means.Here is some info on him I quickly found.

http://users.argonet.co.uk/users/rkpartridge/hm.html

Lafrog

With you all the way

QUOTE (GuestWho! @ Feb 7 2005, 06:09 PM)

QUOTE (sarah-flute @ Feb 7 2005, 05:37 PM) QUOTE (Lucia @ Feb 7 2005, 05:27 PM) We've all heard about "granny" or whoever who smoked till she was 99 and was perfectly healthy - and remember the reason those stories get repeated is because they considered unusual - if all smokers lived to a ripe old age - or more smokers than non-smokers - when those stories got told everyone would go "so?" My Uncle,as far as I`m aware existed, and I met him on numerous occasions. A distant relative of mine (maternal side) is Hugh Mather,concert pianist and doctor,based in London. If you ever care to hear him perform and meet,ask him to verify my story.

I'm not claiming these people don't exist... as I said, if you care to re read it, if ALL smokers routinely had no health problems, these stories would not have the "oh!" factor. The fact is that the heavy smokers who have no health problems from smoking are the unusual and lucky ones. I'm not accusing people of making up these longlived smoking relatives! There are loads of reasons - genetics, environment, disease - that some people live longer than others. The fact that some smokers live to a ripe old age doesn't mean that it isn't bad for you. Most smokers end up with some health problems sooner or later.

Lucia

QUOTE

The thing is with smoking is that we can make that choice not to smoke and my advice as an ex-smoker would be if you don't smoke don't make the choice to start.

That sounds like very sensible advice to me...

AP

QUOTE

Just because there are things in the world that are bad for you doesn't mean that you should add more!

Amen to that...

Seriously, is there anyone who's a smoker or ex smoker who didn't have t"learn" in the first place to enjoy smoking? I'm really curious to know!

I'm not trying to diss people who smoke - though I really really wish they would not do it around me - I just think it's a pointless and disgusting habit (who honestly *wants* to smell of stale fags?) and those who don't smoke would be well advised not to start because it's expensive and can damage your health. I also think those of us who choose not to smoke shouldn't find ourselves the breathers of second hand smoke (or first hand, when people wave their fag under your nose) all the time.

And I really really still think it's a silly argument to say "smoking's not that bad, look at all these other things that damage your health..." - um, so that's a good reason to add another...

I 100% agree with you there Sarah!

just thought i'd add my penny's worth as a smoker. on the singng side i can no longer hit the higher soprano notes that i did when i was much younger and sang in the school choir, but this might also be because a) i don't sing often any more and as i grew older my voice became quite deep anyways. however, it wouldn't be something that i'd recomend to anybody who was really into their singing as it must affect the tone of your voice once you start getting really down to it....

on a personal note, people who a really, really anti-smoking do get on my nerves quite a bit as i consider myself to be quite a considerate smoker (no doubt there will be some 'no such thing!' comments here ) i don't spark up around kids, i don't spark up in non-smokers houses or cars. i'm careful not to blow smoke into peoples faces, whether they're smokers or not. and i wont light up in a resteraunt if somebody near me is eating regardless of whether i am in the smoking section.

and yet, the other day when standing on a nearly empty platform at the station some woman chose to walk past my face so close to me she brushed my jacket, and then waved her hand around in the air going 'eurgh'. my advice to such people? have some respect for my personal b****** space and you wont get near my smoke will you?

that last bit is a little OT and not directed at non smokers in general but i feel all ranty now so yes, bad for voice, health and temper!

Sarah-Flute

With respect "as I said, if you care to re read it, if ALL smokers routinely had no health problems, these stories would not have the "oh!" factor."

I think this is the 2nd time you have pointed out for me to re-read a posting. But I`m not going to. The majority of older people have something wrong with them...I`m generalising here...and the way I feel at present I couldn`t really care two hoots if ALL smokers rountinely had no health problems.

I was inbetween lessons when I posted before,so it was rushed.I`m also very upset that a friend of mine died today...one of our own...and no one has even bothered to mention this or send condolences. It was extremely sudden and avoidable from what information I was told.But such is the cruel circumstances of Life.

This lady didn`t indulge in any vices such as smoking or drinking nor drug taking,but she died aged 59 nevertheless. In fact,despite the survival instinct,sometimes I think it is better that one doesn`t live to a ripe old age cos most of the time it is full of bullsh*t,bills,###### pensions and you are in the hands of your kids (if any) who have the power to imprison you in those mind dumbing homes stinking of urine after the govt has stung you out of the equity in your home.

On the other hand if you still have your health that`s an entirely different story...

GuestWho!, I'm sorry to hear about your bereavement, although forgive my ignorance for not knowing what "one of our kind" is. As I don't know you very well, anything I could post in the way of condolonce would only be the worst kind of cliche.

Like it or not, we all have to die eventually, and it's always far worse whenever the deceased led a good, wholesome life, and was young. I should know - my stepsister died last year, aged 38. Lovely lady, with a kind word for everyone, who would always go out of her way to help.

Before I start to get too miserable, I think the general conclusion so far is that smoking isn't good for the singing voice.

QUOTE (GuestWho! @ Feb 7 2005, 08:04 PM)

Lucia QUOTE I will and if he is a medical doctor I will ask his for his opinion on smoking.     By all means.Here is some info on him I quickly found. http://users.argonet.co.uk/users/rkpartridge/hm.html

Thanks GuestWho - a very impressive CV. Hmmm really must do some more practice.

Deborah

Thankyou for your reply. The lady was a piano teacher,hence my phrase,one of our own. Understand about what you mean about cliches,but it is kind of you to acknowledge my posting.

I`ve read some of your messages...whiter than white yes? and that tickled me.

Must cheer up so let`s get back to the original topic.

Much appreciated and may I recommend Lenor`s Spring Awakening,even if theres a possibility it may harm you and the environment

QUOTE (AnotherPianist @ Feb 7 2005, 07:04 PM)

I really don't think that it's a very good argument at all that to say just because other things are unhealthy for us and we have no choice about them we should smoke.  Just because there are things in the world that are bad for you doesn't mean that you should add more! Â

I certainly wasn't arguing that.

My view is as long as anti-smoking hysteria persists at its current almost-taboo level, it is probably obscuring things on a spectrum from possibly-harmful to very-harmful THAT WILL NOT GET ATTENTION.

Let's get things back in perspective. The government persists in peddling a bogus logic: because no scientific evidence exsits to prove that it does harm, it is therefore perfectly safe: persticides, carcinogens in the water, and...interesting that mobile phone frequencies that are perfectly safe are in the same band as microwave ovens over which considerable caution and regulations prevail!

It took 2 generations to realise the folly of x-raying pregnant women...

So, I'm for letting people choose but we must restore our perpectives.

And I am getting seriously annoyed that non-smokers are being given preferential treatment over restaurants and pubs while STILL using the NHS paid for by smokers. If someone doesn't want to enter a smoke filled pub, no one compels them to do so. I am an ex-smoker who does not want special treatment. Cheeky b*ugg*rs people.

Hi Lucia

Yes I wish I had 1% of his talent. He couldn`t decide whether to study medicine or music,so did both.Nice eh?

Yes very nice to be able to have that sort of choice.

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Feb 7 2005, 10:27 PM)

And I am getting seriously annoyed that non-smokers are being given preferential treatment over restaurants and pubs while STILL using the NHS paid for by smokers.

Is the NHS really funded by smokers? There must be a lot of smokers in the UK to be able to support something as costly as the NHS. And what was that increase in NI for higer rate taxpayers a couple of years ago all about then? Wasn't that to help fund the NHS?

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Feb 7 2005, 10:27 PM)

And I am getting seriously annoyed that non-smokers are being given preferential treatment over restaurants and pubs

lol i have to agree. not surprising for a smoker eh? i don't understand what was wrong with having smoking and non-smoking sections. i mean, surely that was the entire point of inventing air conditioning.....

and yes, the taxes on cigs combined with the NI payments of the huge number of smokers in this country pays for a lot of the NHS. the increase in NI payments a couple of years ago was probably to help cover the spending of our MP's

QUOTE (Lucia @ Feb 7 2005, 10:46 PM)

Is the NHS really funded by smokers? There must be a lot of smokers in the UK to be able to support something as costly as the NHS.  And what was that increase in NI for higer rate taxpayers a couple of years ago all about then?  Wasn't that to help fund the NHS?

Good grief, you don't think NHI contributions fund the NHS do you??? PURLEEEEZE!
No doubt the actual pennies taken in from smokers get diffused among lots of things. But work it out for yourself. Just as a quickie to save you looking it up. What's the tax on a 20pack - £3 (I'll see if I can find out for you). And let's say 10million brits smoke a pack a day. That's £30million PER DAY! That's £3billion per 100 days!

Don't forget also that smokers live c4yrs less than average, so that's 4 yrs worth of care + pensions they don't use up.

Now I have said that's just a guess. So please no pedants telling me the tax is £3.01 and 11,359,203 people smoke....

Ta

I agree with all the comments about how pointless, idiotic, dangerous and downright anti-social smoking is. Unfortunately, I've been doing it for nearly thirty years (I'm now in my forties) and, despite a couple of rather half-hearted attempts to stop, show few signs of giving up. I'm not a singer but I know that smoking definitely doesn't help my flute playing in the slightest and isn't doing my health any good at all.

I'm with all of you in saying that smoking is a bad thing but, human nature being what it is, we tend to do the things that are bad for us, don't we? Incidentally, there was a nice photograph of Pavarotti lighting up in a recent issue of Gramophone magazine and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau was frequently seen with a cigarette dangling from his lips. And doesn't James Galway smoke a pipe?

Now, about my chocolate addiction...

I should be asleep but can't sleep when feeling so mean... I just wanted to say - I'm sorry - this thread has consistently brought out the absolute worst in me so before I say or do anything else hurtful or that I'll regret I'm bowing out, with apologies to all for being a bit of a cow today... I'm unsubbing from this one. And going to bed to inflict my foul mood on my pillow.... (be sorry for the pillow)

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Feb 7 2005, 11:10 PM)

So please no pedants telling me the tax is £3.01 and 11,359,203 people smoke....

No it's £3.02 and 11,359,204 people smoke you forgot Ivor Gasper who lives in Skeggie.

QUOTE (Lucia @ Feb 8 2005, 07:42 AM)

No it's £3.02 and 11,359,204 people smoke you forgot Ivor Gasper who lives in Skeggie.     Â

I knew you iz a pedant!


--------------------
Schola Musica Rhapsodinia does NOT give you lung cancer.

Another famous musician... Robert Casadesus used to smoke a pipe while practising the piano!

QUOTE (cheeble @ Feb 8 2005, 08:10 PM)

Another famous musician... Robert Casadesus used to smoke a pipe while practising the piano!

Pablo Casals and Otto Klemperer were also famous musical pipe smokers. There's a well-known photograph of Casals wreathed in smoke, with pipe clenched firmly in mouth, in the middle of playing a Bach cello suite.

And does playing the piano whilst smoking affect one's voice?

QUOTE (freda_bloogs @ Feb 11 2005, 12:04 AM)

And does playing the piano whilst smoking affect one's voice?

Why, of course - it's difficult to sing with a cigarette stuck in your mouth especially at impassioned moments with it wide open. You must cultivate the ability to "stick" the cigarette to your lower lip or it'll fall on the keyboard, or worse at the wrong place on your trousers. (Jerry Lee Lewis' Great Balls of Fire could have nothing on that, I can tell you. "Do you know your balls are on fire?" "No, but you whistle it and I'll play it.")

The ash probably will fall on the k/b as the cig bobs up and down (unless you stick a wire, a needle or something, down it).

So best only do this in pubs (while the opportunity lasts - nanny government is about to stamp on another part of your personal liberty in the interests of freedom). Your teacher will not like her/his Bosenforfer so treated. If an upright keep the rhythm down a bit. Singing carries one away, the piano rocks to and fro, you spill your beer which might just fall on the dress of the nana you're singing to, I mean lady, gazing lovingly upon you (he wishes).
Make sure you drink at least 1/4 of the glass before you start and swallow before you start singing. "It's now or never" does not sound the same gurgled through a mouthful of beer even if you are in a hurry to start.
(Don't even think about Great Balls of Fire).

Such is my experience.
I agree, I agree.
R

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Feb 11 2005, 08:29 AM)

QUOTE (freda_bloogs @ Feb 11 2005, 12:04 AM) And does playing the piano whilst smoking affect one's voice? Why, of course - it's difficult to sing with a cigarette stuck in your mouth especially at impassioned moments with it wide open.

Not to mention smoke gets in your eyes and then goodness gracious, it's raining tears in your eyes and on the keyboard, so that ebony and ivory, all together in definitely imperfect harmony....until you shout! because the cigarette, burning ash and all, fell in your lap...etc etc...you can add a variation on a cocktail glass waltzing maybe?

...at least that's my experience.

lol

QUOTE (lafrog @ Feb 11 2005, 10:36 AM)

Not to mention smoke gets in your eyes and then goodness gracious, it's raining tears in your eyes and on the keyboard, so that ebony and ivory, all together in definitely imperfect harmony....until you shout! because the cigarette, burning ash and all, fell in your lap...etc etc...you can add a variation on a cocktail glass waltzing maybe? ...at least that's my experience. lol

Johnny Depp doesn't seem to have a problem LOL. Very nice too, where can I get one of those to accessorise my piano?

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Feb 11 2005, 08:29 AM)

Why, of course - it's difficult to sing with a cigarette stuck in your mouth especially at impassioned moments with it wide open. You must cultivate the ability to "stick" the cigarette to your lower lip or it'll fall on the keyboard, or worse at the wrong place on your trousers. (Jerry Lee Lewis' Great Balls of Fire could have nothing on that, I can tell you. "Do you know your balls are on fire?" "No, but you whistle it and I'll play it.")

I don't even believe what you have got away with!

Laughing my pants off. Goodness gracious!



N.'.

Well.....looks like this topic has been brought to a close.

.'.

Sorry, was just out back seeing if it's possible to smoke and play the flute at the same time.

Bit difficult really coz I'm a non-smoker, so had to scrounge one of the bloke next door, and he asked "What are you doing with that flute?" and it got into lengthy explanations.



Amber
x

QUOTE (Amber @ Feb 12 2005, 02:23 PM)

Sorry, was just out back seeing if it's possible to smoke and play the flute at the same time.   Bit difficult really coz I'm a non-smoker, so had to scrounge one of the bloke next door, and he asked "What are you doing with that flute?" and it got into lengthy explanations. Amber x

Just don't try flutter-tonguing while you're doing it!

QUOTE (GuestWho! @ Feb 6 2005, 07:06 PM)

My late Uncle (a doctor) lived on 2 bottles of whiskey and 40 fags and died when he was 89.

That can happpen. Some peole, when they're born, are programmed to be able to get cancer easily, but if they really try they can avoid it, whilst others are programmed not to get cancer, but if they try really hard they can get it.
Your uncle seemed to be one of the latter!
My dad started smoking when he was 13, and stopped a few years ago. He's now 50 and has permanent damage to his lungs.
I'd never start.
I honestly don't recommend it to anyone, but like Rhapsodin said, if people do start it's not my business to interfere.
All my friends smoke except one and they all cough all the time and they smell too!!!!!!
hmmm
anyway, I've blathered on enough now, bye bye

All my friends and relatives I see on a day to day basis smoke heavily, and my singing teacher says she is amazed at how long I can sing on one breath considering.

The worst bit is seeing how all their health declines though

I have a friend, who is nearly 16 and she smokes and she knows it does nothing for her, but she says: "I am going to die anyway!!!"

I remember saying that when I used to smoke, the real question is though:
How painfully do you want to die?

Yes, that is what the voice inside my head says, but I don't think she'd listen if I told her!

But dying and the speed of the pain is only partly about smoking. Loads of smokers don't get lung cancer and loads of non-smokers do. We went into all this further up the thread.

You're more likely to die from other stuff than smoking or smoking related diseases.
Obesity is the most fashionable killer at the moment.

So....don't eat!

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Feb 12 2005, 10:08 PM)

Obesity is the most fashionable killer at the moment.

Do you mean everyone wants to be seen dying of obesity?

QUOTE (uberzoldat @ Feb 12 2005, 10:09 PM)

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Feb 12 2005, 10:08 PM) Obesity is the most fashionable killer at the moment. Do you mean everyone wants to be seen dying of obesity?

Judging by the media, that's how things are.

Well, you can understand. A few decent meals is something you can take with you that the anorexic person can't. How's that for logic?

Anorexia... obesity... why can't people just strike a happy balance?

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Feb 13 2005, 10:16 AM)

Well, you can understand. A few decent meals is something you can take with you that the anorexic person can't. How's that for logic?

Ah - struck down by your logic yet again, Rhapsodin!

QUOTE (Rhapsodin @ Feb 12 2005, 10:08 PM)

Obesity is the most fashionable killer at the moment.

It's the "new black" darling.

QUOTE (cheeble @ Feb 13 2005, 03:18 PM)

Anorexia... obesity... why can't people just strike a happy balance?

But would the medical profession approve? They need sick people to make their money.


.'.

Just found out today that my 16 yr old son Jason has started smoking

Don't know whether I should just tell him how disappointed I feel, or ban him from Playstation or fully ground him. Or what?

I feel so sad about this. I watched my dad die a horrific death through smoking related throat cancer, so I feel particularly anti-smoking.

Jason says he knows the dangers and that it's his choice. But, if he REALLY knew, and I mean REALLY, REALLY knew, then he wouldn't touch the stuff. I suppose I should be grateful it's not booze or drugs, but I hate to see him harming himself in this way.

I'm an ex-smoker, and I've heard that we're worse than people who've never tried!



Amber
x

aww no sorry!

my mum said if i ever started smoking she'd chuck me out! - nice!

Hmmm I told my mum and stopped, this was before I was a singer. Chances are that it's probably not his choice but rather it's peer pressure and he most likely started a number of years ago. Tell him to get out before it's too late.

If my mum had've said "Yeah ok that's fine," I would probably have carried on. I'm glad she didn't, I was no way allowed ever ever ever. If I was in your position, I wouldn't allow him to pop outside for a fag or anything.

QUOTE (Amber @ Feb 17 2005, 10:24 PM)

Don't know whether I should just tell him how disappointed I feel, or ban him from Playstation or fully ground him.  Or what? I feel so sad about this.  I watched my dad die a horrific death through smoking related throat cancer, so I feel particularly anti-smoking.

Amber,

Punishment does not seem right when what he is doing is legal and permitted by society even if it isn't nice. Most likely started at school among his friends.

Ground him? But why? And you'll make his lot worse by banning his games machine. Are you sure there aren't hints of rebelion here?
Where does it end? Do you handcuff him to the ring irons in the cellar?

I think none of your suggestions will help. Tell him he has to quit - his choice but it's your right not to have it inside the house. Disapprove but be there to advise him and help if he wants support to get off it.

It may be sad, Amber, but where do we stop? Where do we go? I have recently witnessed a horrific road accident. If we banned cars it would never have happened. Someone I know has a tale about electricity. Ban that?