I dont know if you remember me, but I was starting piano lessons with the Hal Leanard book 1 and was a bit fed up because I felt that the teacher was not taking into consideration I could play the sax.
Many of the replies here basically said that the teacher should have met me first and then worked together on a book - bearing in mind i am 50 a slightly mature book for older beginners maybe?
Well admittedly have only had 3 lessons but I am bored to tears - so is the teacher I think caught them staring out the window last week while I was playing.
In a nut shell
I hate the book
I hate repeating the same three tunes - not managed to get them all perfect yet
I am bored
I dont understand why I am told to go no further in the book - I have a pencil date on the tune that I am have to stop at when I practice
my sax teacher, always asks what type of music I want to learn - even from an early point he tapped into my interests. He has never said stop at a point in a book and in fact oftens asks what else I am looking at at home.
Am I being unfair? Do you think I am asking too much this early on??
clare
Full Version: well you were right!
In the beginning stages of learning, especially as an adult learner when the dialogue can very much go both ways, it's a good idea to have some concept of what the aims of learning a particular tune might be - I should have thought that perfection is not really necessary....the approach you describe would very quickly lose a child's interest, and if you're bored, then something's wrong too.
Early in learning, the things needing to be consolidated are an understanding and familiarity with the stave (you already have some background in this, though are adding another clef too), and the ability to link playing of notes with given fingers, consistently. Deftness and strength comes a little later, building up of technique etc, and I can't see that that would be learned from the tunes in your first book. There is a philosophy in teaching and learning which says, don't "learn in" any mistakes, but it can be soul-destroying to have it applied this early on, to this degree. I'd ask your teacher where they stand on this, and if you don't feel you can have a meaningful dialogue (ie, do as I say I'm the teacher), then it's possibly time to look elsewhere. Your teacher may thank you - if they're bored too, they maybe need to get some input from you about what you envisage for your learning.
I've certainly found that as an adult learner it isn't always necessary to follow exactly the prescription one would for small kids - some of my wiring is such that doing everything we teach children would lead to frustration and impede progress, so I focus on learning "around" my deficiencies: I can't memorise scales, but can play them from music in pieces, the deftness I need is therefore learned that way instead.
Early in learning, the things needing to be consolidated are an understanding and familiarity with the stave (you already have some background in this, though are adding another clef too), and the ability to link playing of notes with given fingers, consistently. Deftness and strength comes a little later, building up of technique etc, and I can't see that that would be learned from the tunes in your first book. There is a philosophy in teaching and learning which says, don't "learn in" any mistakes, but it can be soul-destroying to have it applied this early on, to this degree. I'd ask your teacher where they stand on this, and if you don't feel you can have a meaningful dialogue (ie, do as I say I'm the teacher), then it's possibly time to look elsewhere. Your teacher may thank you - if they're bored too, they maybe need to get some input from you about what you envisage for your learning.
I've certainly found that as an adult learner it isn't always necessary to follow exactly the prescription one would for small kids - some of my wiring is such that doing everything we teach children would lead to frustration and impede progress, so I focus on learning "around" my deficiencies: I can't memorise scales, but can play them from music in pieces, the deftness I need is therefore learned that way instead.
Hi Clare
I dont think you are being unfair at all.
I think it really is essential that student and teacher meet beforehand. It gives you both the opportunity to see what each other are about. Like yourself I didnt go down that route of meeting the teacher before hand. I would have preferred to, but I was just given a time and day to turn up for my first lesson. Having said that I did seek out a classically trained teacher, so I guess my musical interest was somewhat obvious.
My first lesson was slightly different to you in that I had no musical knowledge at all, whereas for you it maybe a new instrument but you do have musical knowledge and experience although a new clef to deal with. My first book was a classical book 1 pitched at adult learners. My teacher appreciated that I probably wouldnt be too keen or interested in a book for the younger students (Im 44, so London Bridge really didnt really appeal to me at all!!). The adult book really did make the lessons very interesting. I had the added bonus that my then teacher was very passionate about classical music and this certainly came across in his teaching. Had I of caught my teacher gazing out of the window at any point I think I would have been devastated and probably quit the lessons soon after myself. We had on many occasions conversations as to what my musical goals were and how we were going to achieve theses goals. Again I think that is very important otherwise how does a teacher know what to focus on. I feel that the 1 to 1 music lessons are such a personal thing that I not only need to click with the teacher, but also have confidence in that they are teaching because it's their passion and also that the teacher wants to see the student making good progress rather than just taking the weekly fee.
All I would say is if you're not happy with your current teacher then maybe take the time to seek out one that will work with you. I think you owe it to yourself your clearly not happy and Id say quite rightly so too?.
Good luck in what ever you decide on doing Clare
Barry
I dont think you are being unfair at all.
I think it really is essential that student and teacher meet beforehand. It gives you both the opportunity to see what each other are about. Like yourself I didnt go down that route of meeting the teacher before hand. I would have preferred to, but I was just given a time and day to turn up for my first lesson. Having said that I did seek out a classically trained teacher, so I guess my musical interest was somewhat obvious.
My first lesson was slightly different to you in that I had no musical knowledge at all, whereas for you it maybe a new instrument but you do have musical knowledge and experience although a new clef to deal with. My first book was a classical book 1 pitched at adult learners. My teacher appreciated that I probably wouldnt be too keen or interested in a book for the younger students (Im 44, so London Bridge really didnt really appeal to me at all!!). The adult book really did make the lessons very interesting. I had the added bonus that my then teacher was very passionate about classical music and this certainly came across in his teaching. Had I of caught my teacher gazing out of the window at any point I think I would have been devastated and probably quit the lessons soon after myself. We had on many occasions conversations as to what my musical goals were and how we were going to achieve theses goals. Again I think that is very important otherwise how does a teacher know what to focus on. I feel that the 1 to 1 music lessons are such a personal thing that I not only need to click with the teacher, but also have confidence in that they are teaching because it's their passion and also that the teacher wants to see the student making good progress rather than just taking the weekly fee.
All I would say is if you're not happy with your current teacher then maybe take the time to seek out one that will work with you. I think you owe it to yourself your clearly not happy and Id say quite rightly so too?.
Good luck in what ever you decide on doing Clare
Barry
It sounds like time to chat with your teacher about your frustrations; about what you would like to learn. I would hope they will listen to you and be open to a different approach. Clearly the Hal Leonard book you have is not exciting or maybe just not the right approach for you. I would also hope that any teacher would be encouraging to a pupil looking ahead and working independently - after all, part of a teacher's role is to foster the pupil's ability to learn and work on their own!
With an adult I would always discuss what they would like to learn, what style of music they like, what their aims are in learning the piano and come up with various options. We would decide together how we go forward and if something is not working or not enjoyable, then we will review and look into something else. I would never impose a 'this is how we're going to do it' and this is 'the' book you need to have - I'm not saying that this is what your teacher has done but it sounds as if the Hal Leonard book has been chosen without any other options being put forward. Sometimes it is necessary to be realistic with pupils expectations and make smaller goals, however it must be a two way dialogue to my mind.
With an adult I would always discuss what they would like to learn, what style of music they like, what their aims are in learning the piano and come up with various options. We would decide together how we go forward and if something is not working or not enjoyable, then we will review and look into something else. I would never impose a 'this is how we're going to do it' and this is 'the' book you need to have - I'm not saying that this is what your teacher has done but it sounds as if the Hal Leonard book has been chosen without any other options being put forward. Sometimes it is necessary to be realistic with pupils expectations and make smaller goals, however it must be a two way dialogue to my mind.
What would happen if you go past the pencil date?
I started learning the oboe as an adult and my teacher said right from the outset that he had never taught adults before but was willing to try if I was willing to put up with him not knowing the best way to go about it.
Like you I could read music and had played other instruments but he asked me to buy the same tutor book that he used with his children because I needed something to start with and he said it was easier for him to use what he was used to. I had no objections (and there are limited tutor books for oboe anyway). After the first lesson he suggested what I should practise during the week which was not very much (probably a double page, I can't really remember now) but since they were really very easy, I just carried on. At the next lesson I played him what he'd asked me to practise and, whilst they weren't perfect tone wise, I wouldn't have been able to get them any better, so we just moved on. He realised rapidly in the second lesson that I was perfectly capable of working things out for myself and the instructions for the next weeks were just to work through as much of the book as I had time for. I think once he told me not to go past a specific page because there was a new technique that he wanted to show me first, but every other time he anticipated new techniques in the lesson.
I had finished the whole tutor book in about six weeks. He then asked me to buy two "repertoire books", again the ones he usually got his pupils to buy and then about three weeks later apologised for having made me buy things that were too easy. Because he wasn't quite sure where to go next, and to avoid getting me to "waste" (his terms) more money on the wrong books, he then lent me music for a month or so while he attempted to decide what I ought to be playing/was capable of playing.
It probably took around 18 months for him to gauge accurately what was neither too hard nor too easy but at no point did I feel frustrated during my lessons. So, as others have said, I think you do need to try and talk to your teacher.
I started learning the oboe as an adult and my teacher said right from the outset that he had never taught adults before but was willing to try if I was willing to put up with him not knowing the best way to go about it.
Like you I could read music and had played other instruments but he asked me to buy the same tutor book that he used with his children because I needed something to start with and he said it was easier for him to use what he was used to. I had no objections (and there are limited tutor books for oboe anyway). After the first lesson he suggested what I should practise during the week which was not very much (probably a double page, I can't really remember now) but since they were really very easy, I just carried on. At the next lesson I played him what he'd asked me to practise and, whilst they weren't perfect tone wise, I wouldn't have been able to get them any better, so we just moved on. He realised rapidly in the second lesson that I was perfectly capable of working things out for myself and the instructions for the next weeks were just to work through as much of the book as I had time for. I think once he told me not to go past a specific page because there was a new technique that he wanted to show me first, but every other time he anticipated new techniques in the lesson.
I had finished the whole tutor book in about six weeks. He then asked me to buy two "repertoire books", again the ones he usually got his pupils to buy and then about three weeks later apologised for having made me buy things that were too easy. Because he wasn't quite sure where to go next, and to avoid getting me to "waste" (his terms) more money on the wrong books, he then lent me music for a month or so while he attempted to decide what I ought to be playing/was capable of playing.
It probably took around 18 months for him to gauge accurately what was neither too hard nor too easy but at no point did I feel frustrated during my lessons. So, as others have said, I think you do need to try and talk to your teacher.
With adults communication is the key. I love having adult pupils because I get so much feed back from them. We always have an open conversation about what I think we should do next, and what they feel about it.
Sometimes I'm told that they think I'm being too ambitious for them, or that they like a particular style of music. I always try to incorporate my adults' preferences for repertoire in the work they are set. Sometimes I tell them quite firmly that we are going to be ambitious and it will be all right. Whatever, we always have fun in our lessons.
I do think you need to open a dialogue with your teacher. Obviously all teachers are not like me, but in my experience, adults like to be sent off with some specific work, but it should be open-ended so they can get on with it themselves.
Sometimes I'm told that they think I'm being too ambitious for them, or that they like a particular style of music. I always try to incorporate my adults' preferences for repertoire in the work they are set. Sometimes I tell them quite firmly that we are going to be ambitious and it will be all right. Whatever, we always have fun in our lessons.
I do think you need to open a dialogue with your teacher. Obviously all teachers are not like me, but in my experience, adults like to be sent off with some specific work, but it should be open-ended so they can get on with it themselves.
It should be a joy and pleasure, something's clearly very wrong here that you use the word "hate" repeatedly. I'd be really upset if my teacher gazed out the window while I played. Mainly because I'd be thinking, I'm paying you hard earned cash! Pay attention to me!
I don't think you are being unfair. Talk to your teacher and be honest about how you feel and what you want.
I don't think you are being unfair. Talk to your teacher and be honest about how you feel and what you want.
Its a shame that more teachers arent like you Susie. Your comments are spot on.
I like the Hal Leonard book, I am using it with my adult beginners... but I would not consider using it with anyone who could already read music!! Definately time to talk to your teacher, if they won't bend, then find one that will listen to you. You have given them a chance and they are not working with you.
Good luck!
Good luck!
I admit I have been a coward. I am not good at face to face discussions so took the easy way out. I have sent a text saying I could not make todays session. Now its a question if I can face next weeks session!
I really ought to have a conversation with them, but them looking out of the window is stuck in my mind.
What a shame.
I really ought to have a conversation with them, but them looking out of the window is stuck in my mind.
What a shame.
QUOTE(katemorrisviolin @ Feb 28 2012, 03:41 PM) 
I'd be really upset if my teacher gazed out the window while I played.
She may of course have been listening without wanting to see. I do that sometimes,m and I've also been known to say "carry on, I'm listening" and go to my computer monitor while the pupil is playing in order to see what else I'd suggested for the lesson. After which I shall come back and comment on what I'd just heard, since I was listening. So it doesn't always follow that it's indifference.
Why not just call a halt to this and find another teacher? You have had misgivings from the outset and things aren't improving. The teacher sounds unimaginative and inflexible and could put you off for life if you keep going. Don't throw any more money away on more lessons with this person. Start over with someone else and you will probably be back here in a month telling us how great your new teacher is 
Go with your gut feeling next time, and if you don't like the sound of someone, bail out straight away.
Go with your gut feeling next time, and if you don't like the sound of someone, bail out straight away.QUOTE(linda.ff @ Feb 28 2012, 07:43 PM)
QUOTE(katemorrisviolin @ Feb 28 2012, 03:41 PM)
I'd be really upset if my teacher gazed out the window while I played.
She may of course have been listening without wanting to see. I do that sometimes,m and I've also been known to say "carry on, I'm listening" and go to my computer monitor while the pupil is playing in order to see what else I'd suggested for the lesson. After which I shall come back and comment on what I'd just heard, since I was listening. So it doesn't always follow that it's indifference.
When I first started having lessons I was incredibly nervous and used to shake like a leaf. My teacher noticed fairly early on that I played marginally better if he wasn't looking at me and he would sometimes quite ostensibly do something else - like scrape a reed, or look out the window - when I was in danger of falling apart completely from nerves. This would give me time to pull myself together again and, like Linda, he was still listening and would make comments about what he'd heard while he wasn't looking at me.
That said, I'm certain that he would have sensed equally well if I had found it off-putting that he looked out the window while I was playing and wouldn't have done it. So I do think if you are not happy with the teacher you should find another one. It is vital (in my opinion) that you trust your teacher and feel at ease with them.
I started up lessons again as an adult learner a few months ago. My lessons were not making me happy and the teacher always seemed frustrated/ uninterested in teaching me ..I thought this was my imagination. I hated some of the books we were using but the teacher did not seem open to others. In the end I made a list of things I wanted to get out of lessons ..the teacher was very kind and 'listened' but I didn't feel there was real interest in me as a learner there. I decided, because lessons were not making me feel happy to go it alone and stopped my lessons. Shortly after I was recommended a different teacher. I have been to a few lessons with the new teacher and it has been like a breath of fresh air.
I have learned that all teachers are not the same and one does not fit all. My first teacher was perfectly pleasant and i can't say a bad word about her - the pupil/teacher relationship was just not working. My current teacher suits me much better and seems to enjoy our lessons and I feel more enthusiastic about playing because of this.
If your lessons are not enjoyable and you hate so many things about them, I would strongly recommend changing your teacher ..they are not all the same!
I have learned that all teachers are not the same and one does not fit all. My first teacher was perfectly pleasant and i can't say a bad word about her - the pupil/teacher relationship was just not working. My current teacher suits me much better and seems to enjoy our lessons and I feel more enthusiastic about playing because of this.
If your lessons are not enjoyable and you hate so many things about them, I would strongly recommend changing your teacher ..they are not all the same!
I started up lessons again as an adult learner a few months ago. My lessons were not making me happy and the teacher always seemed frustrated/ uninterested in teaching me ..I thought this was my imagination. I hated some of the books we were using but the teacher did not seem open to others. In the end I made a list of things I wanted to get out of lessons ..the teacher was very kind and 'listened' but I didn't feel there was real interest in me as a learner there. I decided, because lessons were not making me feel happy to go it alone and stopped my lessons. Shortly after I was recommended a different teacher. I have been to a few lessons with the new teacher and it has been like a breath of fresh air.
I have learned that all teachers are not the same and one does not fit all. My first teacher was perfectly pleasant and i can't say a bad word about her - the pupil/teacher relationship was just not working. My current teacher suits me much better and seems to enjoy our lessons and I feel more enthusiastic about playing because of this.
If your lessons are not enjoyable and you hate so many things about them, I would strongly recommend changing your teacher ..they are not all the same!
I have learned that all teachers are not the same and one does not fit all. My first teacher was perfectly pleasant and i can't say a bad word about her - the pupil/teacher relationship was just not working. My current teacher suits me much better and seems to enjoy our lessons and I feel more enthusiastic about playing because of this.
If your lessons are not enjoyable and you hate so many things about them, I would strongly recommend changing your teacher ..they are not all the same!
QUOTE(Viledin4u @ Feb 28 2012, 10:55 PM)
If your lessons are not enjoyable and you hate so many things about them, I would strongly recommend changing your teacher ..they are not all the same!
Indeed - I think we range from "I know what works" to "I don't know what will work with you, let's explore"
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