Son No.1 has to decide his GCSE options by the end of next week (never mind that he is only in Yr 8). We got the options list yesterday . Leaving on one side the fact that he appears to have very little in the way of "options" under this new English Baccalaureate set-up (he can, in fact, only choose 1 option), the school is offering both Music and Music Tech.

Given that he has considerable strengths in music (currently at Gr 6 on 2 instruments - piano and trumpet - and has passed Gr 5 theory), it would seem sensible to pick one of them as his sole option. However, we really don't have much of a clue as to which is likely to be more useful and/or respected (by universities, employers etc).

He could decide not to do either (there is the possibility of doing Music GCSE via an evening course through the local Sixth Form / FE college), and use his option in school for something else (eg History as well as Geography). So we are a little at sea....

I think at the level he is he should do straight Music.

Or not bother at all with GCSE. If he is already G6 on two instruments and has Grade 5 theory in year 8 then he is likely to be extremely bored with GCSE music by year 10 and 11. Performance level is about grade 4 for GCSE (only G6 at AS and G7 at A level) and there is not much relevance from GCSE to A level music. If he only has one choice (which is awful in itself imho) is it worth wasting it on a subject that he is already well versed in?

As far as GCSE music goes I think it would be well worth considering the levels of the rest of the class who might take this as their option and how good the teacher is. If, as in many schools, the class will be largely made up of relative beginners and/or those who don't actually play an instrument then he is more likely to become bored.
If there will be a significant number of reasonable competent musicians in the class and the teacher is good then I think he is likely to get more from it. His prior experience may mean that this turns out to be a less challenging subject but as long as he's not in a class of beginners why not?
Does he have an interest in music tech? From the little I know I think he could gain a new perspective on music performance through this if he is interested.
Maybe he would like to keep his music outside school as more of a leisure activity?

um... in the secondary school I teach in, GCSE music is for the 'musicians' and music tech for those who aren't so competent on a traditional 'classical' musical instrument.....

My immediate reaction is that given the level he's already reached, GCSE Music would not provide much of a challenge. I'm not sure about Music Tech - I did A-Level and there was a good amount of arranging involved, but beyond that, not much about music itself. It was, unfortunately, really for the drummers and guitarists (great for them, but not so if you're primarily a classical player).

I don't get this business about musical kids finding Music GCSE boring. My son's musical and enjoyed doing music GCSE. He really liked the composition side of it, and they don't have to do their performance at a lower level if they don't want to. My son found GCSE music to be a bit of a break from his other subjects, and has gone on to study it at A level.

I think the tricky thing in this instance is being only able to choose one option; of course, with any subject, you what you get from it depends what you put in. Sadly, my experience of GCSE Music is rather negative. So much depends on the teacher and on the skill level of the others in the class. I wouldn't discount it, but I'd want to be sure that the pupil was going to get something positive from the experience.

My daughter enjoyed GCSE....the composition side was all new. I have a pupil is working for Gr 8 clari, Gr 5 sax, Grade 5 piano and she is loving GCSE music- the composition side is all new and a challenge!

I don't get the 'boring' thing either. GCSE nowadays gives the chance to perform, create and compose - surely a musical child would be in their element? My daughter is taking it this year (yr11), she's been gd8 since yr7 and yes, is finding it easy, but doing 'her' best, not just the required best. Like anything, it's as interesting as you make it.

As your daughter is already at a decent standard, she'd be better off doing music rather than music tech - at GCSE, as someone already said, it's more for guitarists, drummers and is also suitable for people not previously trained in music skills but who are keen. Our school doesn't offer it as GCSE, although you can do the As as an extra in yr12.

Yes, this is a topic that comes up from time to time and I always agree with you. My daughter has not been bored by GCSE music at all. In year 10 she played one of the solo recorder parts of Brandenburg 4, with the school baroque group, and will almost certainly use part of that as the ensemble performance element of the exam. For her solo performances she has had various opportunities to perform and has played clarinet pieces at grade 7/8 level and/or occasionally has played an easier piece on a less familiar instrument (sax). We're off to a "GCSE music" concert at school tonight and she will use it as a dry run for another of her grade 8 pieces.

So it certainly doesn't have to be low grade or boring.

However, I'd be tempted to go for the music GCSE outside school thing to keep your options open.

I think GCSE Music is about more than being able to perform pieces at a certain level and having G5 Theory. I agree with Chris that it opens up the world of composition. If the teacher is good then it should be enjoyable.

I wonder, given that your son is a high level musically, whether school would let him do both.... If he actually attended the Music Tech lessons he could probably do GCSE Music with some composition support and a lot of listening to all types of music.






I don't think you are allowed to enter at two centres so that might be a problem.

Oops, your son

Does that depend on having the right mix in the class and a teacher who can and will teach composition rather than expect composition to happen without any teaching as is sometimes the case?

School Baroque group? Wish I'd had such luxuries when I was at school! My GCSE group mumble years ago comprised a couple of beginner keyboard players, four violinists ranging from Grade II up to Grade VII, and me (Grade VII clarinet by the time I took the GCSE).

Yes, of coure you need to do what's best for you, but sadly the fact that music is a subject that pupils can do outside of school does often tend to dilute the GCSE class, resulting in less than uptimal grades for the department and a general aura of "could do better" - very frustrating for the music techer. Mybe those who have already decided music is their career might decide to do it on the gounds that they might find A level music barred to them otherwise (though I'm told that GCSE nowadays is not good preparations for A level), but by and lare, you don't get the best kids opting for it.

If they offer it at school, isn't it nicer (and more convenient) to do it in school time with school friends?

Why is GCSE not good preparation for A level, Linda?

Just been to school options evening. It turns out that Son No.1 can (and almost certainly will) do a music tech intensive qualification in a single year (Yr 9), which then means that the choice when it comes to GCSE is any 2 out of history, geography and music.

Difficult one. The music teacher seemed to suggest (without actually saying as much) that it might be possible to do music as an additional subject, given the level already reached: it would be the composition element alone which would really be "new" stuff. He also made the point that it can be difficult to get top grades in music GCSE because of (effectively) the subjectivity involved in the assessment process.

I think we will probably investigate the evening course option: it would almost certainly be with some of the kids he already knows from Music Centre, so socially it should be fine (of the 3 high schools in town, either 1 or 2 no longer offer GCSE music at all, which is why the Sixth Form college has started offering the course, and the Music Centre draws on all 3 schools). It is also Son No.1's trumpet teacher who is involved in teaching the course, so we know the quality of the teaching should be good.

Thanks for the responses - this is all very much new territory for us!

I hope it works out well for your son and I'm sure it will.

FWIW my advice would be encourage him to listen to as much music as possible and to think about it. The listening paper is probably the most challenging aspect of the paper. If he goes for familiar instruments he may not find the composition that difficult.

Thanks! The listening to music stuff is probably the area he is weakest on when it comes to practical exams, so I can see he would need to put some work in on that.

I also need to find out whether it is possible to do music at A level round here if you haven't done GCSE first....

Oh, I quite agree. Unfortunately so many pupils - and the parents, I do think they have a say in what's decided - don't seem to be able to see this


As I said "I'm told", by more than one person who takes them on for the A level course. I think - and of course it's not right across the board - that the level of musical literacy they can get away with for GCSE has been found to be inadequate for a good grouding for A level.

Emsoboe borrowed lots of her piano teachers CDs. I'd also totally recommend getting the course/revision booklets for whichever exam board your son is likely to take.

Please check that your son can take the exam at the night school or that school will allow him to do the work in school under controlled conditions. I am fairly certain you can't enter exams at two centres.




My daughter is doing A level at the moment and I'm certain the GCSE experience even if not directly relevant has helped. Not sure how much as she had two years music education outside of school which has given her different experiences.

Things have probably altered in the 6 years since my son took GCSE music, but at that time the
GCSE focussed on a very broad range of musical genres - world music, pop, jazz, musical theatre etc - with classical music just a small part of that. There was little need even to read music, as compositions were done on the computer and performance was at about grade 3 level.

At A-level, however, the focus was very different - mostly very classical, with Bach chorales and intensive study of one or two classical works. The recital needed at least grade 6 skills, and preferably grade 8 if you were to have any chance of getting an A. The composition was much more extensive than at GCSE level. My son felt that the only part of the GCSE which was useful for A-level was composition, as he would have had no experience of that otherwise. My daughter did AS Music without ever having done GCSE, and did very well on her composition anyway.

The feeling I got was that GCSE music was tailored to those who liked music but had never had instrumental lessons, who mostly played electric guitar, or a drum kit, or sang, and who went on to study Music Technology at A-level with the aim of getting into the popular music industry. A-level music was tailored to those who wanted to do classical music, who played an instrument or sang classical items, and who might well study music at university or conservatoire. Hence GCSE was not great preparation for A-level music.

Yes, I agree, the experience I've had with teaching piano to GSCE students totally supports what you have just said. Huge variables from one school to another in terms of to whom GSCE music is geared to and the amount of technical knowledge and awareness of styles, and composers. It does feel as if in many cases GCSE is trying to do too many things, cover too much ground thinly- this is just my experience re students I've taught.

I'll definitely check, but I think there must be some way of doing this. The night school course here has been expressly set up to enable GCSE students whose school doesn't offer music to take music GCSE at the same time as their other GCSEs, and if there was some kind of absolute bar on being entered at two centres in the same year, that couldn't be done.

In my experience (two sons who have done GCSE and A level music in the last 5 years) I would agree with this, composition being the only useful part of GCSE for going on to A level. However, following my own experiences of teacher training the A level syllabus can now be interpreted in such a way that knowledge of harmony and theory is becoming less necessary, and I shadowed a teacher in one school where the A level group of drummers and guitarists seemed to do all their composition on Cubase, with very little knowledge necessary.
It makes me despair!

Just realised I never responded to this. Just to clarify, whilst it would be more convenient to do via school, Son No.1 effectively only has one option choice for GCSE. Doing music out of school, bearing in mind that he has had a significant headstart over many candidates for the performing and listening parts of the test, would then enable him to use his option in school for another subject. At present, he would have to give up either history or geography - both of which he is good at - in order to do music.

At the moment it seems to be almost impossible to do GCSE outside of school, unless you can come to some extremely complicated arrangement about coursework, becasue the only way they can trust coursework to be above boardm is to dictate that it's done under controlled conditions in the classroom. One of my piano pupils ws doing GCSE and wasn't even allowed to play me her work in hand; her music teacher didn't even like her discussing it with me (and I think this was part of what caused her or her mother to decide to stop lessons ) Controlled coursework can only be done at specified times in school under the supervision of the teachwr

I'd heard of this sort of thing; however, this is a proper GCSE course run by the Sixth Form College, so I would assume they must do the controlled coursework during the class sessions (which occur on a "twilight" basis - about 5 pm).

[As an aside though, the more I learn about it, the more the whole GCSE set-up has me chewing the carpet in frustration. Bring back O levels! I did a German O level through a correspondence course, and had to go to another school to do my oral test, but otherwise was able to take it at my school even though it wasn't even taught there. No way you could do that these days.]

We looked into the possibility of daughter doing GCSE Music outside the school environment (both daughters actually). We were told they were not allowed to enter at two centres with the one candidate number. It's only been the past 2/3 years where the coursework has been undertaken in the controlled environment it came in the year after daughter did her GCSE Music.

It maybe that the pupils are taught at the centre but there is an agreement with the school that allows them to undertake the coursework in their school. This would be reasonably straight forward with a bit of organisation and willingness.

There is just no provision for adults to take quite a lot of the subjects they used to be able to. I've known people who, leaving school with no qualifications, took an O-level every year for yonks and collected load of them. Sounds fun. What about another kind of exam completely, intended for those who have finished with school, different board, different set-up, just counts as an equivalent?

Would there be a call for it? Should we ask Mr Gove and deflect his attention from some of the other things he meddles in?

I did music GCSE 8 years ago - I had to because I was a music scholar, and I think all but one of the 6 in my class did it for the same reason. Personally if my school had offered music tech I would have jumped for it with both hands, but then I love tech stuff and if you don't I imagine it would be extremely dull as I think the emphasis is more on the technology side than the music - I'm told that's the case for the OU module I'm planning to do.

When doing a listening paper for GCSE I once put my hand up because I thought my past paper had a misprint - the question was 'circle 3 techniques you hear in the piece' and one of the 8 options was 'nintendo'. As music is a one-tier subject that means the questions are ranged from A* to G standard, and if you're already proficient some of the questions can look quite ridiculous. I enjoyed music GCSE except for one half term, when we had an interim teacher while they were hiring a new HoM who taught us as if we had no prior knowledge and for that time we all dreaded music lessons because we were bored stiff. With the new HoM one of our major projects was arranging a Bach organ fugue for a sort of mini-orchestra comprised of all the different instruments we could play and some random stuff lying about in the cupboard (the opening theme was played on a xylophone and I had a triangle tied to the stand my viola music was on). There was no way we would have been able to do that if we had needed to spend class time covering the basics, so I really think the experience depends so much on the level of the rest of the class compared to your son. I was technically bottom of the class because I only had G6 on my primary instrument!

As for learning composition, my sister's friends said that their HoM at their school basically wrote the compositions for everyone because she couldn't be bothered to teach it properly. If that's the level of dedication of the staff GCSE is clearly a complete waste of time. Many schools allow pupils to do A level without having done GCSE which shows how essential it is considered in terms of preparation, i.e. not at all.

I don't know if it is available to you anywhere but I have heard that the iGCSE is a much better grounding for A level music than the standard GCSE. There is some information about what it contains here:

http://www.theabbey.co.uk/Senior/Curriculu...ic/IGCSE-Music/

I don't know the ins and outs of it, but having checked with the teacher at Son No.1's trumpet lesson yesterday evening, he was positive that Son No.1 would be able to do it, and there is another lad from his school [at much the same level of ability and prior achievement] who has already asked about doing the same thing. I would have thought that the child would simply be entered by the Sixth Form College as one of its candidates and under a separate candidate number. I'm not sure why you encountered the difficulties you did, but I can't see how this course can possibly be operating (which it is) if there is some absolute bar on entry at two centres.

I also spoke to our piano teacher (who is a classroom music teacher) after our lessons yesterday evening [Wednesday evenings are a busy time in the saxophile household ], and his view was that whilst you can do music A level without first doing GCSE, it's best to cut your teeth on the composition stuff at GCSE, rather than going straight in at AS / A level. I would trust his judgment on that. Which means that not doing music GCSE at all isn't really the best idea.

I would agree 100% with that. The composition stuff at a-level can definitely take you by suprise, I know grade 8 performance candidates that struggled with it.

I personally think the best thing to do would see if the school would allow you to fast-track the GCSE in one year (something he would be able to do if his performance and listening skills are up to standard, which from what youve described it sounds like it) and that we he gets to "cut his teeth" ,to nick a phrase, on the composition whilst being able to quickly move to the challenge of a-level in his 2nd year (year 11)

It may have been my daughter's school fobbing us off and I seriously hope you are right and I really want to be wrong